Che Guevara put gays in concentration camps?

[cgannon64]

Recently my friend had to write a report on Che Guevara, and he returned from his research telling me all these heinous things that Che did: Including putting gays in concentration camps (or suggesting that), and opposing the ideas of a democratic communism.

Now, I'd always disliked Che just on the fact that he is a communist who tried to spark and aid communist rebellions, but was he actually this bad a guy?

 

[Perfection]

He did? Cool! I know a lot of stupid pinkos I could insult with this factoid!

 

[cgannon64]

So far I've only found one internet site substantiating this, and it was quite a biased rant - granted, pretty funny - so I'd like to see if its really true.

It was angrily pointing out that when Carlos Santana wore a Che Guevara shirt to the Grammys, he was promoting a man who put homosexuals and people who listened to rock music - Carlos Satana's music included - into jail.

 

[Yom]

If you don't have anything to substantiate the claims, then there's no reason not to ignore them.

 

[Xen]

anyweb site that would say Guevera didnt support the ideals of democratic communism is already wrong. I dont idolize Guevera; he's an interesting historical character, a Romantic cought up in a cause that woudl do more wrong to what he wanted to achieve then it woudl end up doing in advocation, but I'm hardley an idolist; but such blatant slander si false.

 

[amadeus]

Xen, when it came down to Kruschev and Mao, who did Che support? It was Mao.

Mao was arguably just as bad, if not worse than Stalin.

 

[Yom]

Mao was arguably just as bad, if not worse than Stalin.

What are you talking about? Stalin and Mao are hardly in the same league. Compare the famines that occured under their rule, for example. 20 million died under Stalin from a very possibly engineered famine (can't say for sure), but that's not even half of all of those that Stalin killed. Under Mao, just as many starved, but it can truly be attributed to short-sighted economic policy and not malice. Mao's cultural revolution killed 8 million, whereas Stalin's Great Purge and Collectivization efforts killed over 15 million in a country that was 1/3 as populous.

It is undeniable that both were mass murderers and horrible leaders, though.

 

[Winner]

What are you talking about? Stalin and Mao are hardly in the same league. Compare the famines that occured under their rule, for example. 20 million died under Stalin from a very possibly engineered famine (can't say for sure), but that's not even half of all of those that Stalin killed. Under Mao, just as many starved, but it can truly be attributed to short-sighted economic policy and not malice. Mao's cultural revolution killed 8 million, whereas Stalin's Great Purge and Collectivization efforts killed over 15 million in a country that was 1/3 as populous.

It is undeniable that both were mass murderers and horrible leaders, though.

Stalin killed on purpose and Mao because he was dumb? That's hardly to believe. Remember the atrocities like burying people alive committed during late 40's.

To the numbers, we can speculate. In my textbook the Cult. rev. killed "just" about one million. The numbers are uncrertain, especially in China.

 

[h4ppy]

What are you talking about? Stalin and Mao are hardly in the same league. Compare the famines that occured under their rule, for example. 20 million died under Stalin from a very possibly engineered famine (can't say for sure), but that's not even half of all of those that Stalin killed. Under Mao, just as many starved, but it can truly be attributed to short-sighted economic policy and not malice.

Exactly, Stalins economic plans (except Agricultural Revolution) worked better.

 

[Mario Feldberg]

Guevara certainly wasn't a touchy-feely liberal. He once personally executed a minor for theft... Something all these rotten Che-shirt wearing pinkos often forget is that communists aren't liberals. In fact they are about as liberal as nazis (see below).

And the oppression of gays in Cuba was certainly real. Don't know about Guevara's personal involvement but he was one of the leading figures at the time of the worst anti-gay actions (Cuba isn't that anti-gay anymore):

While Castro challenged many backward ideas as remnants of the old society, he embraced with enthusiasm the homophobia of Latin machismo and Catholic dogma, elevating it into a fundamental tenet of Cuba's new socialist morality. Idealising rural life, he once claimed approvingly that "in the country, there are no homosexuals".

When Cuba adopted Soviet-style communism it also adopted Soviet-style prejudice and puritanism. Ever since Stalin promoted the ideology of "the socialist family" and recriminalised gay sex in 1934, communist orthodoxy dictated that homosexuality was a "bourgeois decadence" and "capitalist degeneration". This became the Cuban view. "Maricones" (fagg*ts) were routinely denounced as "sexual deviants" and "agents of imperialism". Laughable allegations of homosexuality were used in an attempt to discredit "corrupting" western influences, such pop music, with the communists circulating the rumour that the Beatles were gay.

In the name of the new socialist morality, homosexuality was declared illegal in Cuba and typically punishable by four years imprisonment. Parents were required to prevent their children from engaging in homosexuals activities and to report those who did to the authorities. Not informing on a gay child was a crime against the revolution.

Official homophobia led, the mid-1960s, to the mass round up of gay people, without charge or trial. Many were seized in night-time swoops and incarcerated in forced labour camps for "reeducation" and "rehabilitation". A few disappeared and never returned.

(source: http://www.petertatchell.net/international/cuba2.htm )

 

[Rik Meleet]

While Castro challenged many backward ideas as remnants of the old society, he embraced with enthusiasm the homophobia of Latin machismo and Catholic dogma, elevating it into a fundamental tenet of Cuba's new socialist morality. Idealising rural life, he once claimed approvingly that "in the country, there are no homosexuals".

When Cuba adopted Soviet-style communism it also adopted Soviet-style prejudice and puritanism. Ever since Stalin promoted the ideology of "the socialist family" and recriminalised gay sex in 1934, communist orthodoxy dictated that homosexuality was a "bourgeois decadence" and "capitalist degeneration". This became the Cuban view. "Maricones" (fagg*ts) were routinely denounced as "sexual deviants" and "agents of imperialism". Laughable allegations of homosexuality were used in an attempt to discredit "corrupting" western influences, such pop music, with the communists circulating the rumour that the Beatles were gay.

In the name of the new socialist morality, homosexuality was declared illegal in Cuba and typically punishable by four years imprisonment. Parents were required to prevent their children from engaging in homosexuals activities and to report those who did to the authorities. Not informing on a gay child was a crime against the revolution.

Official homophobia led, the mid-1960s, to the mass round up of gay people, without charge or trial. Many were seized in night-time swoops and incarcerated in forced labour camps for "reeducation" and "rehabilitation". A few disappeared and never returned.

In other words; not as different from other (non-communist) countries of the time. Do you think gay people have had it easy anywhere ?
Even in my country, which was known for tolerance, gays were discriminated against.

Yes Che not liking gays (I haven't checked any other sources BTW) only shows that with respect to homosexuallity he followed the world at that time.

 

[nonconformist]

Che is overrated, but people have to rmember Che the idologic revolutionary as well as Che the pinko.
He is, however, personally responsible for the excecution of many.

 

[Dann]

Whatever. With the sheer amount of capitalist commercialism associated with his famous mug nowadays (and it's all good), Che must be rolling in his grave.

 

[CurtSibling]

Che Guevara resorted to bloody execution and violence, which is the standard communist reaction to most problems.

.

 

[The Last Conformist]

If treating homosexuality as a crime makes you heinous, there was alot of heinous people in Che's day ...


Anyway, nobody wants to hear that Che was nasty. It'd hurt sales. Capitalism doesn't need balanced accounts, but icons.

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

i like che guevara. i dont have a problem with gays but if the start hittin on me or doing gay stuff then ive got a problem. but i dont believe that che would do that. i dont remember reading anything like that.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Yes Che not liking gays (I haven't checked any other sources BTW) only shows that with respect to homosexuallity he followed the world at that time.

Thank you. Just for the record, sodomy was only decriminalized a year ago in the U.S. A majority of citizens still refuse to grant them equal rights. So El Che didnt like gays, big deal, not many people did back then, or do today.

Nobody is more loved and hated than a dead, failed revolutionary.

 

[Yom]

Stalin killed on purpose and Mao because he was dumb? That's hardly to believe. Remember the atrocities like burying people alive committed during late 40's.

To the numbers, we can speculate. In my textbook the Cult. rev. killed "just" about one million. The numbers are uncrertain, especially in China.

That's not what I was saying. Mao killed on purpose, but Stalin killed far more on purpose than Mao did. I don't remember where I got my figure for the cultural revolution (I may have added in the costs of collectivization and executions).

 

[luiz]

Guevara had some far worse traits than his homophobia(whch, granted, was common at the time, but what sort of excuse is that?)
People always forget that Castro was actually the reasonable and moderate element of the revolution, while Guevara was the trigger-happy lunatic. In the days following the capture of Havana, he personally executed many members of the old regime. He was almost single-handedly responsible for the widespread persecutions and executions that followed the revolution.
Not to mention that he was a very radical communist, he did not accept the reforms going on in the Soviet Union and he did not accept the denounce of Stalin. He was a stalinist in every sense of the word.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Guevara had some far worse traits than his homophobia(whch, granted, was common at the time, but what sort of excuse is that?)

It's not an excuse, but if it's enough to consider him, to use cg's choice of word, heinous, consistency would demand one also considers alot of figures of the time that at consie like cg might be expected to like to have been heinous.