City Lists

[T_F]

Agreed on scaled alignment. (But why 512 and not a nice number like 500?)

For Isengard/Dunlendings, Isengard for the city and then the settlements can have Dunlending names. (Don't make them an OCC, and I they can't be an auto-vassal of the Shadow since we determined elsewhere their starting alignment was Neutral, just leaning towards Evil.)

 

[Elda King]

512 is a very nicer number than 500, because it's a power of 2. Sometimes in programming (thought I don't know in Civ4 moding) it makes a lot of difference...

For alignment, see what I posted in the Religion thread.

 

[xmen510]

I don't understand this settlement thing I guess. I don't play the FF2 Mod. Only tried it once and really wasn't all that impressed by it (as in fun - the concept is very impressive and the amount of work that went into it). Perhaps someone could explain the settlement concept to me so I can help out with it. I'll put in the Dunlendings again and make Isengard its own again.

Sorry about that. I could have been much clearer myself.

 

[T_F]

I'm not sure exactly how it works (since I never play FFH as the Kuriotates), but I think it's where they're limited to a few cities, but they can have settlements so they can go out and get resources. Settlements are like mini-cities.

 

[xmen510]

Someone else will have to come up with the names for those then. Post them here and I'll add them to the list.

I guess by the Vote, everyone want to have Isengard with many city names and use said settlement idea, so we will go with that.

 

[xmen510]

I think we should have at least 10 names for the Isengard list if possible.

Also, it seems some are now haveing a problem with the Civ list. We need to really make a final decision on this.

Do we have one Super Shadow Civ (i.e. Shadow: no Mordor, no Angband, no Angmar)

Suggested City list if this is chosen:

Spoiler :

UTUMNO - Capital
CARN_DÛM
GOBLIN_GATE
MINAS_MORGUL
DURTHANG
TORECH_UNGOL
NARCHOST
CARCHOST
UDÛN
GOBLIN_TOWN
CARACH_ANGREN
CALMIRI
THANGORODRIM
NAN_DUNGORTHEB
DOR-DAEDELOTH
TOL-IN_GAUROTH
ERED_ENGRIN
ERED_GORGOROTH
CIRITH_GORGOR
ANGSÛL
PHALURAN
MORKAI
SHEDÛN
CARGASH
LITASH

or

Have the multiple versions we have now.

 

[T_F]

If we go with a single Shadow civ, there are several names that need to be higher or lower on that list (like why is Carn Dûm second?) and it's missing both Barad-dûr and Dol Guldur.

 

[xmen510]

Barad-Dur and Dol Guldur were taken out because they are also Wonders. SOme didn't think that the names of Wonders should also be used for Cities.

The names are in no particular order. The only important one on the lists is the Capital city. During the Modding process we can arrange the names in a more appropriate manner. (or before if people prefer. I was just concerned with getting the names up and going than putting them in any particular order).

 

[Berenthor]

The link to the allignment mod is here. I think this should be fairly easy to merge. It adds additional xml tags to several xml files. The biggest task is then to add these tags in every xml file and for every entry in the xml file (e.a. all civs, all civics, etc.). It will really take some work but can also help us make the shadow and alignment concept we want so much better.

As for the religion thingie, this allignment can be used to move civs closer to the valar/good orr closer to the shadow/evil. Having a particular religion moves you closer to a particular allignment but is not the only measurement (see discussion in religion thread). So adopting light of the valar moves a civ towards good a certain amount of points but depending on the starting points (neutral evil will something like -100 while neutral good might be 100 and some which are quicker to evil can be -150 or even more). This gives us room to play.

One thing about the one shadow proposal: we had a lenghty discussion about that in another thread (the civs one) and I thought we said we were going to have to shadow civs: mordor and angband because they are sufficiently different. Angmar would then be an "evil men" civ.

 

[xmen510]

Indeed. But there seem to be a few detractors of that line of thought. I believe taht Elda King is the most Vocal about it. See the last post in the Civs thread. He is very much against it.

This is one of the reasons we need to have someone with Final Say. It is something I brought up in the Discussion Status Thread. We REALLY need to have that. We seem to be trying to ride of in 7 different directions at once on only one horse at times. Having 1 person with final say after all the discussions is needed. (In my opinion of course). Check out my post there and the others after it. Post your own thoughts on this threre.

 

[xmen510]

Request:

I really don't know what to do with the city list for Isengard.

Please feel free to post suggestions, even if it is only 1 name. Each name added helps grow the list afterall! I will try to figure something out as well.

 

[xmen510]

O.K. I actually came up with some ideas.

now, I know a lot of these are just renames in different languages, but I think that kind of works in this particular situation. Let me know what you think.

City List for Isengard:

Spoiler :

10 Cities

ISENGARD - Capital
ANGRENOST
NAN_CURUNIR
FORDS_OF_ISEN
CALENARDHON
METHEDRAS
WIZARD'S_VALE
PITS_OF_ISENGARD
TREEGARTH_OF_ORTHANC
RING_OF_ISENGARD

 

[T_F]

Honestly, I have no problem with anything you can get for Isengard, since the Dunlendings really didn't have cities there's not much material.

 

[Sengir]

I think the list works particularly well for the settlements list.

 

[xmen510]

I'll add the list to Isengard for now then.

 

[Berenthor]

I think for Isengard this is a good list, especially if we go with the one city civ.

 

[xmen510]

T_F and I have been updating the City Lists with properly accented names (EDIT: T_F has been providing the info & I have been copying/pasting it ). The topic came up however for the naming we should use for:

VALIMAR / VALMAR

Apparently VALMAR is more commonly used, but I believe that VALIMAR is the original name that goes along with VALINOR.

T_F has said he will do some research to get more info. We thought it should be opened for discussion, so if anyone has an opinion on it, now is the time to SCREAM!

 

[T_F]

All I can find is that Valmar is more commonly used than Valimar, other than that I can't find a difference. Apparently it's a compound of Vala + mar (which makes me think Valimar is better), but all that I can find about compound words in Quenya implies it should be Valamar (which it never is), so it's open for debate.

 

[Sengir]

I like Valimar better, but I'm known as a fan of more obscure names

Valmar is indeed the name most commonly used.

 

[xmen510]

Anyone else with an opinion on this?

Also, leaving proper accents and the spelling of VALMAR/VALIMAR aside, are we not calling the City list finalized*?

* = Finalized except if Elda King still chooses to have final say and only want 1 Shadow Civ that is, of course.