Civ VII Weekly Reveal Guessing Thread

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Maybe they will do as they did with Augustus as Rome and then teasing Spain, but this time it will be Liliʻuokalani as Majapahit, teasing Hawaii.

That worked because Rome -> Spain was a pathway, but all evidence points to Hawaii being the same Age as Majapahit.

 

[queenpea]

That worked because Rome -> Spain was a pathway, but all evidence points to Hawaii being the same Age as Majapahit.

Oh yeah, I'm dumb.

 

[Sagax]

Maybe they will do as they did with Augustus as Rome and then teasing Spain, but this time it will be Liliʻuokalani as Majapahit, teasing Hawaii.

In such cases, so far they’ve been first showcasing the leader with their more “logical” civ and then mentioning another one as a possibility. So I could see Liliʻuokalani being revealed with Hawaii while teasing Majapahit, but not the other way around.

The only exception so far has been Machiavelli, but that’s because he is a “rogue” leader without a perfectly fitting civ.

 

[queenpea]

In such cases, so far they’ve been first showcasing the leader with their more “logical” civ and then mentioning another one as a possibility. So I could see Liliʻuokalani being revealed with Hawaii while teasing Majapahit, but not the other way around.

The only exception so far has been Machiavelli, but that’s because he is a “rogue” leader without a perfectly fitting civ.

I think I really just want a Liliʻuokalani reveal, and I have tied my brain in knots.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

The only exception so far has been Machiavelli, but that’s because he is a “rogue” leader without a perfectly fitting civ.

Given the hidden "Play as" unlock condition for the Normans that seems just about the right size for his name, I suspect that, based on their one-time control of Italy, Machiavelli will unlock the Normans in vanilla. I've come to this conclusion primarily because with the ESRB info in mind I really doubt we'll have another European leader on top of the ones we know, and someone has to be that unlock condition.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I think I really just want a Liliʻuokalani reveal, and I have tied my brain in knots.

This comes from a place of ignorance on my part, but why would she be included? The main reason I can see firaxis putting her in is because they want more women, and she is a woman, which isn't a very good reason IMO.

From what I understand her reign was short and triggered the end of Hawaii as an independent nation and the beginning of its era of colonial rule under the USA. How is she perceived by Hawaiians?

 

[gdr_willter]

If they can choose Seondeok for Korea, why not Lilli'uokalani? At least she is a good artist herself.

(To make it clear, I'm grumbling about Seondeok :/)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This comes from a place of ignorance on my part, but why would she be included? The main reason I can see firaxis putting her in is because they want more women, and she is a woman, which isn't a very good reason IMO.

From what I understand her reign was short and triggered the end of Hawaii as an independent nation and the beginning of its era of colonial rule under the USA. How is she perceived by Hawaiians?

It's not her fault that she reigned over the end of Hawaiian independence. Her brother had already signed the Bayonet Constitution (so called because it was signed under duress) before she rose to the throne, making her largely a figurehead.

But she continued to advocate for her people, protecting them as best she could from the avarice of American business interests.

Beyond that, she was also a composer. You may be familiar with her most famous song, 'Aloha Oe'.

 

[queenpea]

This comes from a place of ignorance on my part, but why would she be included? The main reason I can see firaxis putting her in is because they want more women, and she is a woman, which isn't a very good reason IMO.

From what I understand her reign was short and triggered the end of Hawaii as an independent nation and the beginning of its era of colonial rule under the USA. How is she perceived by Hawaiians?

I can’t imagine she is personally blamed for falling victim to US imperialism. I believe she is viewed mostly as a tragic figure.

I would be happy for additional female leaders in the game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just thought of an out there leader pick that could also potentially link to a lot of civs (Majapahit, Hawaii, Spain, Mexico), without having an actual historical civ to himself: José Rizal.

 

[Zaarin]

This comes from a place of ignorance on my part, but why would she be included? The main reason I can see firaxis putting her in is because they want more women, and she is a woman, which isn't a very good reason IMO.

I mean, Civ6 had Egypt led by Cleopatra, who was not Egyptian and presided over the collapse of Egypt as an independent polity (like Liliu'okalani, through circumstances beyond her control, though I'd say she navigated those circumstances with admirable adroitness). I'd say Liliu'okalani is at least as compelling a leader for Hawai'i as Cleopatra. I don't have a strong personal stake in who leads Hawai'i (or if anyone does), but honestly Liliu'okalani would be far from Firaxis' most dubious leader choice.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

It's not her fault that she reigned over the end of Hawaiian independence. Her brother had already signed the Bayonet Constitution (so called because it was signed under duress) before she rose to the throne, making her largely a figurehead.

But she continued to advocate for her people, protecting them as best she could from the avarice of American business interests.

Beyond that, she was also a composer. You may be familiar with her most famous song, 'Aloha Oe'.

So should we have George III because it wasn't his fault he had psychological issues? I think that's an exceptionally weak premise for inclusion. There are other better Hawaiian leaders surely? I'm sure there are other better female Hawaiian leaders even in other sectors than state leadership, so why would they pick one who abjectly had no success as a leader?

"My name is Lili'uokalani Queen of Queens:
Look on my compositions, ye Mighty, and pity me!"
No thing beside remains.

I'm all for more women in Civ, but not if they aren't praiseworthy leaders. If we still had leaders tied to civs, sure at a stretch for her not state-leading work I could see that, but she's not the best composer out there, she's not the best humanitarian out there.

She may be the best Hawaiian Composer/humanitarian out there, but I think that's pretty found down the list of best figures to include and theres a fair few other women who outshine her.

It does feel to me like she would have no shot at all at the roster if she was a man.

Should also add, I'm not making the case for Cleopatra's inclusion either, but she's at least internationally renowned. Personally think she's a poor choice too.

 

[Zaarin]

So should we have George III because it wasn't his fault he had psychological issues?

George III's mental health issues have been considerably overstated. George III was intelligent, well-educated...and extremely stubborn and politically clueless. He was a very able ruler who simply did not grasp that the king is a dancer, not a conductor. Without question, he was by far the most competent Hanoverian; he only has a negative reputation in America because he's the king we gave the boot to. If we'd had our revolution under Elizabeth I, we'd be saying she was insane. (And she did have her own mental health issues, suffering deeply from "melancholy"--depression--later in her reign. As for George III, he also developed mental health issues late in his reign; he was quite sane at the time of the Revolution.) tl;dr: I'd be 100% okay with George III and would happily take him over Victoria. (But not Elizabeth. Elizabeth remains one of my favorite historical figures, and Firaxis is not allowed to abandon her until they portray her right: moody, mercurial, passionate, hot-tempered, vain, brilliant, eloquent, and at times even a little vulgar...Civ6 was a prime opportunity for her denouncing animation to be throwing her shoe at the camera...)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There are other better Hawaiian leaders surely? I'm sure there are other better female Hawaiian leaders even in other sectors than state leadership, so why would they pick one who abjectly had no success as a leader?

As far as Hawaii goes, I'm not sure?
They could go with Salamasina of Samoa if they wanted to go with another female Polynesian leader. The best other Hawaiian leader I could think of would be the return of Kamehameha, but he would be another warmonger.

 

[Zaarin]

They could go with Salamasina of Samoa if they wanted to go with another female Polynesian leader.

Trung Trac, Amina, and Machiavelli all give precedence to that possibility for sure.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Trung Trac, Amina, and Machiavelli all give precedence to that possibility for sure.

Then again, all of them including Lili'uokalani were Great People in Civ 6.

 

[Evolena]

After some thoughts, I believe there should be 20 Leaders besides Tecumseh and Napoleon, in order to have one Leader unlock for each Exploration and Modern Civ (we are at 12 right now).

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

After some thoughts, I believe there should be 20 Leaders besides Tecumseh and Napoleon, in order to have one Leader unlock for each Exploration and Modern Civ (we are at 12 right now).

I don't think this works because some of the leaders represent antiquity civs though?

 

[Evolena]

It might not be ideal but still doable.

 

[chaosprophet]

This tweet...

They really pay attention to the community theorizing as it was indeed a plot twist. People weren't expecting Charlemagne in when we pretty much confirmed to not have the Franks nor the HRE in the base game.