Flak
vBülletin Förum
Was shooting from the hip with that remark. Sorry!
Civ3 1.29f Bugs Report Thread
- Thread starter philippe
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Wheel Gator
Samurai
Civ.3 Editor still does not work for me.
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
I just had a conquered town of '1' FLIP on the very next turn despite two spearmen, six legionaries, and a catapult in it, all full strength. My entire garrison vanished! Game over.
This is total GARBAGE. FIX IT. If I can't mod it out I am done.
This is total GARBAGE. FIX IT. If I can't mod it out I am done.
kingjoshi
King
Zouave, what differences are there if you change the Cultural Opinion of ratios and their properties?
I mean, if you delete all of them except one and make the resistance property 100% and continued resistance 100%? I haven't tried it.
I think the idea of cultural flipping is a good one, but it just wasn't fully implement properly. I hate it when i take over a city and they don't give me any time to build a temple or anything. There is resistance, so I can't do anything, and then it flips without giving me a chance to do anything. So I tend to raze cities now. which is unrealistic...
BTW, in terms of culture flipping... Isreal gained territory when they were attacked. But the people there are still Palestinians. They have culture. The people are neither Egyptians, Syrians, etc.. They become independent (or eventually will be...). I think it's too complicated to implement perfectly (isn't anything). But most of it is good. However, in terms of the game, you shouldn't lose your units. It just doesn't make sense.
I mean, if you delete all of them except one and make the resistance property 100% and continued resistance 100%? I haven't tried it.
I think the idea of cultural flipping is a good one, but it just wasn't fully implement properly. I hate it when i take over a city and they don't give me any time to build a temple or anything. There is resistance, so I can't do anything, and then it flips without giving me a chance to do anything. So I tend to raze cities now. which is unrealistic...
BTW, in terms of culture flipping... Isreal gained territory when they were attacked. But the people there are still Palestinians. They have culture. The people are neither Egyptians, Syrians, etc.. They become independent (or eventually will be...). I think it's too complicated to implement perfectly (isn't anything). But most of it is good. However, in terms of the game, you shouldn't lose your units. It just doesn't make sense.
Masquerouge
Deity
Zouave's posts about CF really make me think about the famous "AI spearmen are invincible" ones... People only remember when they got p***** off.
Yeah, I know, some weirds things can happen. Like when you play 16 civs on a tiny map, deity level
Yeah, I know, some weirds things can happen. Like when you play 16 civs on a tiny map, deity level
kingjoshi
King
I agree that people tend to remember the irregularities (some people still think it's better to go with your first hunch because they tend to remember when they changed their answer and got it wrong). However, the cases are different. One can say that tanks should occasionally lose. It's not rare for tanks, helicopters, planes, etc. to crash even when not facing an enemy so mechincal or electrical failures could cause some such thing to happen. (I used to get upset when playing basketball video games and the players would miss layups and close shots, but then closer inspection of real life games showed that to be accurate).
however, the percentages where a city flips based upon culture "right after/duing war" is too high. During a way makes little sense. It's like, the germans take over Paris and all of a sudden, the german soldiers disappear without any other nation having to free the French.
you can imagine that a french resistance will occur. the partisans in Civ2 made some sense. but in Civ3, you see no military and they flip because of culture alone even when militarily outmatched. makes little sense...
Two other examples. British owning India and the Europeans in China. Both of the nations (India and China) have rich cultures. But they did not gain their independence due to their rich culture (as far as I know).
however, the percentages where a city flips based upon culture "right after/duing war" is too high. During a way makes little sense. It's like, the germans take over Paris and all of a sudden, the german soldiers disappear without any other nation having to free the French.
you can imagine that a french resistance will occur. the partisans in Civ2 made some sense. but in Civ3, you see no military and they flip because of culture alone even when militarily outmatched. makes little sense...
Two other examples. British owning India and the Europeans in China. Both of the nations (India and China) have rich cultures. But they did not gain their independence due to their rich culture (as far as I know).
- Joined
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- Messages
- 30,085
Not a flame, Zouave, but do you ever build any cultural improvements? Maybe if you modified your strategy, you could reduce flips?Originally posted by Zouave
I just had a conquered town of '1' FLIP on the very next turn despite two spearmen, six legionaries, and a catapult in it, all full strength. My entire garrison vanished! Game over.
This is total GARBAGE. FIX IT. If I can't mod it out I am done.
JustListenen
Congenital Grouch
Originally posted by Zouave
I just had a conquered town of '1' FLIP on the very next turn despite two spearmen, six legionaries, and a catapult in it, all full strength. My entire garrison vanished! Game over.
This is total GARBAGE. FIX IT. If I can't mod it out I am done.
Gee, I thought that this was a thread abaout "CIV3 1.29f Bugs & Problems."
Guess the Thread title has no meaning.
I haven't read through all 6 pages to see if this was reported but I had a strange occurrence last night. I got a message that "a barbarian uprising" was happening near one of my cities on the east coast of my civ. At least 10 or 12 horsemen showed up and slaughtered my two valiant spearmen. Simultaneously, three of my other cities were attacked by similar groups of horsemen with similar results. These cities were all on different ends of my civ. Is this some bug that sends ALL barbarian camps into "uprising"? If not, I think 40 barbarians is too much. I was playing on regent level with whatever the mid-level barbarian setting is.
RockHPI
RockHPI
kingjoshi
King
rockhpi,
Soren (the programmer of the AI) mentioned that Barbarian uprisings occur whenever a second civ enter an age. And that they occur all over the world simultaneously. That just the way the game was programmed, it's beyond any Mod's control.
Soren (the programmer of the AI) mentioned that Barbarian uprisings occur whenever a second civ enter an age. And that they occur all over the world simultaneously. That just the way the game was programmed, it's beyond any Mod's control.
DaGgeR
Chieftain
Zouave,
ainwood has a good point. How much culture do you have compared to the civ whose town you took? As it states in Killer's FAQ thread under "How many units do i need to suprpess a culture flip?" about the ratio of "Cte/Cty", where "Cte" is the Total culture of the foreign civ and "Cty" is the Total culture of your civ :
"The national culture factor is probably the reason why some seem to have no problem with culture flips and others do. Since if you have strong national culture, this value might be approaching 1/2, which can keep the garrison down at a 1:1 ratio. However, if conversley the AI civ in question has double your culture, you are going to need 4 units for every foreignor and tile to prevent a flip."
If you haven't built many cultural improvements, this could be a huge part of your problem. I usually have a higher culture than the rest of the civs in my games, and have rarely had one flip back, and have never had one flip the next turn.
ainwood has a good point. How much culture do you have compared to the civ whose town you took? As it states in Killer's FAQ thread under "How many units do i need to suprpess a culture flip?" about the ratio of "Cte/Cty", where "Cte" is the Total culture of the foreign civ and "Cty" is the Total culture of your civ :
"The national culture factor is probably the reason why some seem to have no problem with culture flips and others do. Since if you have strong national culture, this value might be approaching 1/2, which can keep the garrison down at a 1:1 ratio. However, if conversley the AI civ in question has double your culture, you are going to need 4 units for every foreignor and tile to prevent a flip."
If you haven't built many cultural improvements, this could be a huge part of your problem. I usually have a higher culture than the rest of the civs in my games, and have rarely had one flip back, and have never had one flip the next turn.
kingjoshi
King
I've had the cultural flip problem even when having the highest culture. It happens that the enemy tends to be second or third. Even with 4 Cavalry and 2 Infantry, I've had a city flip. Regardless of the amount of culture of the city, if that civ didn't have units as high tech as mine and couldn't compete, then I don't understand how the regular citizens of that city could take over the military and kill them all! I'm not bothered as Zouave, but it bothers me when it happens against reason.
DaGgeR
Chieftain
If there is one things computers ain't, it's reasonable. All it can do is use the logic with which it is programmed.
Again, from FAQ, is the formula for how many to garrison:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)
If the population is 1 and not resisting, F = 1. A city has 21 workable tiles, and by capturing it this (except in rare cases) gives you 9 of them, leaving 12. If all 12 are under foreign control still, that makes T=12, plus F=1, 13 garrison needed. If (as in most cases) the foreign civ has more culture in the town than you, Cc will be 2, which makes your guarrantee garrison now 26. As long as the city is not in disorder or WLTKD, H=1, no change. At this point you culture compared to the foreign civ (the culture ratio) will change things, but if yours is only 10% better than theirs, this will only change the number to 23. A small difference between cultures will have a small difference, as with #1 vs. #2. In this case, the fewer city tiles they control, the better. If you can control even half of them, that would make (F)1+(T)6 = 7, times the Cc=2, giving 14 before the culture ratio. Of course, if you have a 2 to 1 culture ratio on the foreign civ, you cut the number in half, effectively cancelling Cc.
Again, from FAQ, is the formula for how many to garrison:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)
If the population is 1 and not resisting, F = 1. A city has 21 workable tiles, and by capturing it this (except in rare cases) gives you 9 of them, leaving 12. If all 12 are under foreign control still, that makes T=12, plus F=1, 13 garrison needed. If (as in most cases) the foreign civ has more culture in the town than you, Cc will be 2, which makes your guarrantee garrison now 26. As long as the city is not in disorder or WLTKD, H=1, no change. At this point you culture compared to the foreign civ (the culture ratio) will change things, but if yours is only 10% better than theirs, this will only change the number to 23. A small difference between cultures will have a small difference, as with #1 vs. #2. In this case, the fewer city tiles they control, the better. If you can control even half of them, that would make (F)1+(T)6 = 7, times the Cc=2, giving 14 before the culture ratio. Of course, if you have a 2 to 1 culture ratio on the foreign civ, you cut the number in half, effectively cancelling Cc.
DaGgeR
Chieftain
I guess 1.29f must be doing well if the biggest complaint wasn't even covered by it.
kingjoshi
King
The argument would then be that maybe they should've changed the formula, which as we know so far, they haven't.
I've already posted my two main complaints (this and the lack of editing railroad movements). Another minor complaint (the lack of an info screen on other civs like in Civ2) is supposed to be addressed by PTW, which is welcome news.
If this thread was titled, "Great aspects of Civ3", then my posts would be more positive and the pros definitely outweigh the cons. But, here we are discussing bugs & problems of the Civ3 patch 1.29f (including issues the patch didn't address it seems).
I've already posted my two main complaints (this and the lack of editing railroad movements). Another minor complaint (the lack of an info screen on other civs like in Civ2) is supposed to be addressed by PTW, which is welcome news.
If this thread was titled, "Great aspects of Civ3", then my posts would be more positive and the pros definitely outweigh the cons. But, here we are discussing bugs & problems of the Civ3 patch 1.29f (including issues the patch didn't address it seems).
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
After I destroy or raze a town or city, the stupid AI civ immediatley sends a settler/foot soldier pair to the open tiles. They do this even when still at war with me and they march right past stacks of my offensive units. Of course they are destroyed and I get free workers, and of course they do it again. 
When are you going to fix this nonsense, which I reported as a bug months ago? I know you love that Settler Diarrhea, but this is so dumb it's annoying.
When are you going to fix this nonsense, which I reported as a bug months ago? I know you love that Settler Diarrhea, but this is so dumb it's annoying.
Sodak
Paha Sapa Papa
The AI will have settlers ready to occupy any vacant land. Dumb? Yes, in the situation you describe. But the AI is programmed to occupy as much land as it can. Until the technology of desktop PCs allows 'smart' settlers in games, units that can make novel decisions in various circumstances, it'll just have to do.
Kinda like your incessant whining about culture flips.
JBearIt
Ard Ri
I haven't heard any feeback on this...anyone have on idea on how to fix the head problem?
Zouave has a right to voice his opinion, and as for culture flipping he is right on the mark. I don't mind him repeating it on most every thread I read
Zouave I do the following to deal with culture flipping:
1- adjust the culture settings giving them less effect
2- get your workers to "migrate" into the new city. The more your people in the city, the less likely of flipping - combine this with starving out the local inhabitants to quicken the process.
3- position your army outside the city that way you dont lose them - and if they rebel, crush them!
Zouave I do the following to deal with culture flipping:
1- adjust the culture settings giving them less effect
2- get your workers to "migrate" into the new city. The more your people in the city, the less likely of flipping - combine this with starving out the local inhabitants to quicken the process.
3- position your army outside the city that way you dont lose them - and if they rebel, crush them!
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