[CIV4] Replay #9 - Beating Deity

[WastinTime]

You gotta have thick skin when you're famous, Seraiel.
Look on the bright side, you're famous! There will always be critics.

 

[elitetroops]

There's some videos of my (non-civ related) work on youtube with hundreds of thousands of views, thousands of likes and <20 dislikes. Yet there can be a ton of negative comments, mostly by people who comment on stuff that they clearly have absolutely no clue about. That's just the way youtube comments work. If someone likes what you do, they feel good about having seen a good video and might give it a thumbs up or perhaps even share it on facebook. But if someone dislikes it, or doesn't understand it because of their own ignorance, or just find the smallest thing to complain about, then they have to let it out of their system in a negative comment. I've stopped reading youtube comments on my videos a long time ago because of this, and if I sometimes flick through them, I just skip over the negative ones without giving them a second thought. I'd suggest you do the same. The last thing you should do is get into some comment war with the haters.

And I also suggest you should keep up the good work!

 

[Seraiel]

Thx you two.

Found it a little hard to buy in WastinTime's argument, because being "famous" I see somewhat relatively, with my videos having something like 500 views.

The post of elitetroops anyhow offers a very logical explanation, so I can believe it more easily.

I'll definately continue the work. I wouldn't have stopped it anyhow, 1 person being a hater cannot count more than my friends liking what I do.

Next part is a little difficult though, so I'll need at least 4d from now. 1 week is more realistic. Ending moment of the upcomming episode is hopefully again becoming epic, and no, no war, just me getting something like 8 techs for 1 tech which I got via ...

 

[pepe26]

I didn't mean for this to happen... If it helps, consider my comment revised and deleted. There are a bunch of respected players around here who seemsly to like your videos a lot. So take pride in that, the good ones or usually tough to please. I don't really see any reason for you to quit, taking into account that there was ONE person (me) who was critizing.

 

[Pangaea]

Just lost all my motivation of working towards this project. People giving nothing is bad enough, but this breaks the barrier.

Don't worry about one person being a d*** (or was that pepe..? ). Comment fields on youtube, newspaper articles, etc, seem to drag idiots to them like flies to s**t (without further comparison, obviously). I've long ago stopped reading such comments, though I may sometimes browse through them a little, because without exceptions you will get the knuckledraggers spreading hatred. I'd probably find it hard to totally ignore if I was good enough to make videos, but try to do it anyway. They're not worth your time, and the work you are putting into these videos is greatly appreciated by the vast majority.

It's a completely different field, but I sometimes like watching videos of something called ASMR. It can be very relaxing. But then you have people who don't get it at all, or perverts, and the stuff they write is idiotic, to be diplomatic about it. It's so easy to make such comments, with the "neutrality" the web provides. Few, if any, would say to a real person, face-to-face, what they are communicating in such comment fields. They'd quickly get a fist-to-face action, I presume

Please don't get discouraged by such comments, but keep up the excellent work instead I look forward to the next one. As they say, patience is a virtue, and the wait is worth it.

Meanwhile I'm reading up on Replay #8, which is also a fantastic piece of work. Up to page 8 now, and some pretty heavy warring. What always impresses me about such games, and the great players in general, is how you're able to control seemingly everything, always staying a step or three ahead of future developments, and twinning the AIs around your little finger like nobody's business. So much to learn, but so hard to learn it.

Or slightly differently, as the saying goes: "Easy to learn, hard to master."

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Just lost all my motivation of working towards this project. People giving nothing is bad enough, but this breaks the barrier.

There will often be people that want to stop someone from creating a legacy. He didn't even provide any detailed criticism; his comments were clearly too vague to be of any use. Don't waste your time on his useless critique; he was unable to describe (in any useful detail) what he didn't like. Your presentation skills are better than most university professors (professional educators) and other professionals too. He is probably not even a CFC member.

Don't give his criticism a second thought.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Tempesta13]

There will often be people that want to stop someone from creating a legacy. He didn't even provide any detailed criticism; his comments were clearly too vague to be of any use. Don't waste your time on his useless critique; he was unable to describe (in any useful detail) what he didn't like. Your presentation skills are better than most university professors (professional educators) and other professionals too. He is probably not even a CFC member.

Don't give his criticism a second thought.

Sun Tzu Wu

Agree ^^. Your video would educate players even with NO commentary. The commentary adds a lot of info that wouldn't be caught by just watching the video. It's not perfect English - but I don't think that has prevented you from getting any of your points across in the videos. I haven't had any trouble following the commentary.

Appreciate the time you put into this. Looking forward to the remaining videos.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I usually read only Strategies and Tips forum of Civ4, but waiting for Episode 4 with the highest interest. So, decided to visit HoF Civ4 forum for a new information...

Hey, Seraiel, please don't be disturbed by those empty comments! You know, you give the people some unique and the highest quality thing!

I would add that it's very useful not only for HoF players, but also for players who like standard settings. I'm pretty sure that soon I will have a strong Deity win in a standard game, at least one. And your videos already put a sufficient contribution to it! Because you explain the important things in a very logical manner, because you provide some general important information on Deity and many other "because"s. However, to understand all these one should already have a certain level of skills in Civ4, and one should want to learn and to think. How many people want to do it?...There are always not much people who can value the highest art. For example, Russian director of films Tarkovsky. For a long time I heard that his movies are masterpiece, but when I tried to watch one of them then I found it too boring...Then, several years ago I tried another one and...I found it fantastic! It's not a relaxing movie, you need to think, you need to understand, but when you have a certain level you can really enjoy it. And I think it's quite the same with any highest art...

Your voice is also okay. In the first videos (especially the one with 4 hours) the settings of sound were somewhat inbalanced (at least for my comp) and it was difficult to hear. But then you improved greatly from video to video, and now voice is clear, it's a good balance between music and voice, it's very good timing for comments and so on. Also, for the educational purposes the most important is not the voice, but a manner of presentation. As for me, I cannot stop when I start to watch...The length of 1 hours is pretty good then. Thank you! And thank you that you do the feedback for our comments (like doing even two version - with music and without!).

Please just continunue your work. It's already the highest art in Civ4. The finished one would be even more better.

 

[cseanny]

Nuked.

 

[Tatran]

The biggest problem with the 'Let's play ...' videos : they are too long (very time consuming).
After recording, a 45 minute video should be brought back to 5-15 minutes.
(Most of the time nothing happens and getting 1 or 2 tips during 3 hours isn't efficient.)
And in Seraiel's case, he should commentate after the video is done.

 

[Pangaea]

That is what he does, as I understand it.

 

[Ben Lehman]

For what it's worth, I understand your language totally.
It's harder for me to learn from videos than text, but I'm slowly working through it.

 

[Seraiel]

Thx for your feedback.

I'll try to get out the other parts of the Replay, it's just that RL is really sucking up a lot of time atm., studies, sports, friends, etc.

@ Tatran: If you think that nothing happens, you completely misunderstand the game. During the complete video, 1 decision happens after another, and all of those add up to the position I'll be in when Libbing Rifling in 700 AD.

 

[neilmeister]

1 decision happens after another, and all of those add up to the position I'll be in when Libbing Rifling in 700 AD.

+1. This is the thing I most try to explain to my friends... every decision counts.

I remember reading some extremely simply and totally obvious advice when I first came to Civfanatics, but it opened my eyes.

These replays provide advice on all levels, for novices to experts.

Keep them up

 

[Tatran]

@ Seraiel
Well. I had a few moments where I felt asleep during those videos. But that happens with most "let's play" videos.

Micromanaging at the end of each turn is an interesting tip.
I never do that or I do some micro at the beginning of the turn.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Seraiel,

Please continue your great video of a great game! I'm very curious about how you manage to liberalize Rifling by 700 AD!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Nice work on the videos!

I started off by watching the first video without music, but then I tried the music in the second video and got hooked on the good tunes.

I found your explanations to be enjoyable to listen to and I learned several useful tips. It was also nice to get a feeling for how you micro and to understand some of the ways that you think while playing a turnset.

 

[Seraiel]

Seraiel,

Please continue your great video of a great game! I'm very curious about how you manage to liberalize Rifling by 700 AD!

Sun Tzu Wu

Nice work on the videos!

I started off by watching the first video without music, but then I tried the music in the second video and got hooked on the good tunes.

I found your explanations to be enjoyable to listen to and I learned several useful tips. It was also nice to get a feeling for how you micro and to understand some of the ways that you think while playing a turnset.

I just read this comment today. I unfortunately deleted all uncast material after some of the comments had been just too bad for my taste.

As I understand now, those comments came from some very frustrated players who do neither know to appreciate that I put enormous amounts of work into the aim of trying to make them better players, but they also don't have produced anything during their years on Civfanatics, even though they sometimes have hundreds or thousands of posts.

It hurts me to see, that I put the comments of people who are not even able to ever produce one Deity HoF #1 left alone record a video of it, over the comments of those, who actually tried to make me deal with those comments, so the only thing I can offer is that I produce a writeup about this round, so that Sun Tzu Wu and others can at least see, how I managed to lib Rifling at a time that is non-standard, even for my best games.

Tbh, it's interesting even for me to look at that round again, because I know that it must have not only been played really well, but that also the oddities must have favoured me greatly, because until now, I was not able to beat that Lib -> Rifling time, even on better maps with earlier Conquest and sometimes even Oracle Civil Service and similar.

So it's time again to not play but read and learn, and those players who are not able to produce anything of value, will just go, be silent or cut their hate.

 

[Mitchum]

Excellent, Seraiel! I've been wondering if you would ever get back to this. I'm looking forward to it. I enjoy all of your videos and posts!

 

[Seraiel]

So this is where we left:



7 cities and 7 Workers at 500 BC is pretty good, but the start is pretty strong and you've seen in the video how I got them. Also, this is a Large map, so 6-7 cities are not what we're supposed to have, this map is Large Boreal and the AIs are at 10-11 cities atm., still, pretty good that we're almost keeping up with Deity AIs.

Let's look at the cities in detail again, because cities are what makes a good empire. Good and many cities = good empire.



The capital is far developed, has a Forge, 2 World Wonders and even a Monestary!

I always try to get up at least 1 Monestary (in my empire) from the religion that I run, and it's usually in the capital, to also make use of the research bonus. 10% are not much, but in strong, prospective Buro capitals, they do make a difference.

The city is running the special resources, an Engineer Specialist and is 1 turning a Worker, which shows the very good micro that I have in all of my games. Growing the Cottages would be superflous atm., because we cannot allow missing out on empire developement, so getting more cities, more Workers and more Granaries + Forges.
Also, while building Workers and Settlers, micro is always something special because Food gets converted into Hammers, so the Engineer is currently bringing about the same benefit as the Cottage, while giving GP-points.
The city is not working the Stone as one of the strongest tiles, but we're probably gonna find the reason to that when looking at the other cities.



2nd city, has good Food and therefor is quite large, only working the Food + the riverside Grassland + 2 Scientist Specialists. I chose this setup, because with the capital having 2 Wonders giving different GP-points, we definately need a city diverted to creating a GS. City 1-3 are usually the best for this, as they're the farthest developed ones.
The has or is getting the usual buildings, which are Granaries and Forges, and it's building a Library, because of culture reasons, because it then can sustain working those specialists even in Slavery, and because GNP is something really rare on Boreal.
Note: You definately want a Granary in all your cities, and 2nd best building in Domination / Conquest games are Forges and Barracks. Libraries come next, but are usually only necessary in cities for culture and specialist reasons.
Working Specialists with REP on Boreal is basically the only way of generating sufficient amounts of GNP.



3rd city, working the same micro, special resources, riverside grassland (city doesn't have any) , Specialists and the build-priorities are exactly like before. Granary, Forge, Barracks.
The city is getting a Sacrificial Altar, because GNP as told is the rarest thing there is on Boreal, and it's probably gonna get a Library directly afterwards. Prioritizing the special-Courthouse is probably because I thought that I'd whip this city very often, because it has strong production potential with the Copper, and I want to go to war asap.
I didn't know about how important GNP really is on Boreal and also didn't know about the importance of running multiple GP-Farms, otherwise this city would have definately been choosen for a Library, but I thought "production-city, produces troops, will be whipped, let's build a Sacrifical Altar" .



4th city, doesn't work the Stone, so we've found an error in my awesome micro. This city is noticably worse developed then the first two, that's why I told you that city 1-3 are the best for creating GPs.
We can see there, that I decided very early for building Sacrifical Altars, city has good Food so good Specialist potential and could very well get a Library too. I have something against Libraries in production cities, they usually give too little benefit, they're expensive to be built and apart from the capital, the culture benefit is usually the greatest one, but if I had known in before that this game would go until Cavalries and further, I would have either prefered a Library, or built troops to more Worker-steal and maybe even conquer a neighbour.



City has no Granary and the Workers are currently improving the Food. It's a good city for the future, but until now, it's nothing more then freshly settled with Traderoutes.

Let me say one thing about Traderoutes in very short: They're almost the most important thing in CIV! Traderoutes let a city sustain itself economy-wise, and apart from the capital which should grow as much as possible, good cities are small cities because the whip is a lot more efficient in small cities. 1 can be 2 , and small cities are also costing less maintenance, they even make you less attractive for declerations of war by the AIs!
So get your city connected to have Traderoutes as early as affordable, sometimes even give Traderoutes higher priority then Food! (In the case where you have i. e. Currency and when GNP matters more than production. )
And keep your cities small. All this talking from some users that Charismatic would be a good trait, is only because they can play nothing more than Cuirrassier-rushes and don't know how play properly. In Cuirrassier-rushes, a city needs to grow to generate the most research possible and to whip out the most Cuirrassiers possible, but in standard games, a good city is size 1-4, size 6-8 are cities that are ment to be grown large because they're ment to work Specialists or riverside Cottages, and good cities are using as much overlap as benefiting their productivity, but as little overlap as possible to prevent AI-DoWs.



6th city, claims Seafood and Silver which is important, but apart from this, the city has no great potential.
Only thing interesting: Working a Merchant instead of a Hammer-tile. This is (could be seen in the video) because I'm chopping out the Workboat, and expect the city to generate enough Food from then on. This shows good thought and good coordination during that round, so I'm not that good of a player, that I always have a Worker next to a freshly settled city, at least not until now :> .



Last city, getting one of those easy borderpops via Caste-Artists, one of the great reasons why Spiritual is such an awesome trait. Just think of all of those Monuments and Libraries which one doesn't have to build because one can get easy Culture and easy Specialists! Maybe SPI, after the current Gauntlet with Brennus is going to be my new favourite trait, probably I'll still rank it after PHI and IND though, maybe it's on paar with Financial and Creative, probably it's even better.

So that was the overview over the cities! We've seen 3 far developed and 4 non-developed cities, 5 cities are really strong, 1 city claims resources and one is mainly there for filler- and overlap-issues.

Let's shortly sum up the other parts of the game:





Asoka has Currency while he needs Metalcasting, and we're short before becoming him as a friend. This will lead me to switching the research to Aesthetics.
Lincoln has Theology, but no ways of becoming friends with him soon. Washington has Civil Service, but also no chance atm., because I couldn't build up +4 on trade-relations with him, due to the fact that he is far developed.
Pacal has Feudalism and HBR, but he's the Buddhist leader, so again no chances, but most Civs are teching Construction, so at least that will be available soon.

What's also gonna be available soon is gonna be Philosophy, because Mansa went for it (can be seen on first screen) . We have no possibility to trade it from him because he's also far advanced in tech, but Mansa going for Philsophy is always a good thing.



We definately have some religion-spreading to do, but the most important cities got Hinduism already.





Mansa (as always) would be willing to go against anyone, but (as always) we have no techs to trade to him. We're unfortunately not close friends with Pacal, otherwise we could bribe him against anyone too, but what's showing very good is the setup of good and bad AIs again. 2 AIs are at war, a 3rd is going to follow soon, and I'm sure, Peter and Pacal won't let themselves be waited on.

So:

• I research Aesthetics and begin on building the Parthenon, mainly for Failgold reasons but also because it's a good Wonder and because the 2nd city has nothing else to build, as we're still expanding and developing the cities, and that means no early warfare.
• I get Currency by trade from Asoka.
• I research Literature and begin on building the Great Library in the Capital. I do that even without Marble, because the GL with giving 10 + research is probably the best Wonder after the Oracle, the GLH, the Mids and maybe the MoM in Huge / Marathon / Spaceraces.
• I continue on running the Engineer in the capital, because I want to get another GE if possible. Rush-building the Parthenon would be great with our specialist-driven Mids-economy.
• I research Drama, just because it's good trade-bait and because I think that with being first to Aesthetics, I can get it and double the research-bonus on Music.
• I let the capital grow.
• I settle 3 more cities, one claiming Horses.
• The GL gets build somewhere far away, Wonder was built in 0 time by Mansa to whom I traded Literature for the +4 relations bonus and gold. (Trade was unfortunately necessary, because there is 0 possibility to generate Gold on this map. )
• We get a GE and I rush-build the Parthenon! Yay!
• We get Confucianism!