Civ6's First Expansion: Who would you include?

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here's my go at it:

1) Ottomans (Mehmed II) Hopefully they make the Ottomans less naval and less domination-focused than Civ V. I'd like to see Ottoman culture or Suzerainty (the word was invented to describe their political hegemony after all) inform their uniques.

2) Inca (Topa Yupanqui) I would like to see them make use of mountains in some unique way, beyond the Terrace Farms from Civ V.

3) Shawnee (Tecumseh) A Eastern Woodland Native American culture with a Big Personality leader. They could use religion to gain Suzerainty over city-states and harness them for war.

4) Carthage (Hanno) Let's see a thalassocratic trade empire. No more alp-crossing elephants.

5) Netherlands (William) Polders could be so much more interesting in Civ VI.

6) Haida (Cumshewa) Pacific Northwest Native American culture. Totem Poles and long distance coastal raiding. Like Norway, but Culture instead of Faith and Berserkers.

7) Canada (Samuel de Champlain) One of the civ ideas that Firaxis spitballed for BNW. Several others found their way into Civ VI already. I would pick a 17th century French-Canadian to differentiate it from the other members of the Anglo-American sphere already present.

8) Madagascar (Ranavalona) Quite the opposite of Mvemba. This queen took European technology and kicked out the missionaries.

9) Ireland (Brian Boru) Hopefully Firaxis will forego the amalgamated Celts in favor of a Celtic state like Ireland, Wales, or Brittany.

Alt-leaders:
Akhenaten (Egypt) A distinctive and unusual Pharaoh. Ramses feels over-played. Perhaps he can make use of the Faith from Sphinxes.
Louis XIV (France) Preferable to Mr. Boneparte and oh, so cultural.
Shah Jahan II (India) India should have several alt-leaders, but let's start here

City-States:
Venice
Havana
Cahokia
Mesa Verde
Kathmandu
Timbuktu
Capetown
Manila
Singapore
Hanoi

 

[thecrazyscot]

I know it's not the same as a Firaxis release, but there are several extraordinarily high-quality modded civs out there that have been specifically mentioned in this thread which I encourage you guys to check out while waiting for the expac:

Assyria (Tiglath-Pileser III and Ashurbanipal)
Ethiopia (Zara Yaqob and Ezana)
Maori (Honga Hika and Te Atairangikaahu)
Swahili (Al-Hasan ibn Sulaiman) <-- this one's a personal favorite of mine at the moment

And you can check out the Civ6 Customization Wiki for a list of current and upcoming civs, leaders, and city-states.

All right, sorry for the slight thread derailment. Just thought I'd share

 

[Guandao]

Civs:
Carthage (Hannibal)-Classical North African Civ
Inca (Huayna Capac)-a South Amerindian Civ
Korea (Seondeok)-to complete the East Asian trio
Mali (Musa)-to fill up West Africa (Ashanti or Benin could be in 2nd expansion)
Maori (Hongi Hika)-to represent Polynesia
Netherland (Wilhelmina)-obligatory European Civ, I would save Portugal for the 2nd expansion.
Ottomans (Mehmed the Conqueror)-obligatory Middle Eastern Civ
Shawnee (Tecumseh)-I just like Tecumseh , the 2nd North Amerindian Civ would come in the 2nd expansion.

Alternate Leaders:
Thutmose III (Egypt)
Ashoka (India)

Babylon, Mayans, Ethiopia, Zulus, some form of Celts, Portugal, Sweden, Mongolia are saved for 2nd expansion or later DLCs.

 

[Guandao]

Who's hoping there will be at least three Expansions? I prefer expansions to DLCs. I like paying for bunches of new Civs.

Civs that I hope will appear:
At least one North Amerindian Civ (Civ5 had two, I know)
Maya
Incas
Mali
Ethiopia
Zulus
Ashanti/or Benin (West African coast needs representation)
Carthage
Morocco/Berbers
some form of Celts ( I don't mind the Gauls, but I like Scotland or Ireland as well)
Portugal
Netherlands
second Scandinavian Civ (Sweden or Denmark)
at least one more Eastern European Civ (Hungary/Bulgaria/Czechs/Serbia/Romania)
Italy
Ottomans
Assyria
Mongolia
Korea
Sri Lanka/or Nepal
Mainland SE Asian Civ (Khmers/Vietnam/Siam/Burma), After Indonesia DLC, I think there will only be one more SE Asian Civ added, sadly.
Maori

I'm worried that the addition of alternate leaders which result in several of the above choices never making it in the game.

 

[conorbebe]

New Civs:

• Canada (Louis Riel)
• Carthage (Hannibal)
• Inca (Pachacuti)
• Māori (Te Wherowhero)
• Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
• Ottoman (Suleiman)
• Sioux (Sitting Bull)
• Zulu (Shaka)

New Leaders:

• Ashoka (India)
• Louis XIV (France)

 

[Vahnstad]

Not based on a theme or time age (because I already made a expansion based on the New World or based on the value of tradition).

New civs:
Georgia (Tamar)
Hungary
Korea (Seondeok)
Maya (?)
Mali (-> but i'm fine with Ethiopia (or Swahili) too, just hope it's one of those two)
Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
Mughals
Netherlands
Ottomans (?)

New leaders:
France (Joan of Arc or Louis XIV)
Egypt (Hatsheput or Akhenaten)
Japan (Meiji) or India (Ashoka)

Second expansion: Inca, Babylon, a NA civ, Swahili, Byzantium, Carthage, Portugal, Ethiopia, Hittites and the one or two SE Asia civs that won't be included in the next DLC (Khmer, Indonesia, Siam or Vietnam)

new leaders for China, Spain, Rome, England & Japan,

 

[Zaarin]

9) Ireland (Brian Boru) Hopefully Firaxis will forego the amalgamated Celts in favor of a Celtic state like Ireland, Wales, or Brittany.

I would love, love, love to see the Grand Duchy of Brittany led by Jeanne la flamme.

 

[Vahnstad]

and I would be sad if Scythia's took Mongolia's place, but i assume she just took the place of the Huns (hopefully), not that i don't like that civ or even don't like Scythia, but Genghis Khan just need to be included in the game... . They're maybe not that fun to play as, but they're one of the most fun AI players.

 

[Vahnstad]

I also hope if we would only have a small amount of second leader, that they wouldn't waste resources on a second American leader. They're fine, but they just represent the same time area, and there are a lot of other civs (8) that need another leader. I also hope they will stick with the older guys (Monroe, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Wilson, Lincoln or at the very least FDR but everything beyond that seems not worth the effort / controversial.). And if they're going to include a Canadian civ, it would soon be overcrowded.

Theodore Roosevelt was an excellent choice by the way.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I also hope if we would only have a small amount of second leader, that they wouldn't waste resources on a second American leader. They're fine, but they just represent the same time area, and there are a lot of other civs (8) that need another leader. I also hope they will stick with the older guys (Monroe, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Wilson, Lincoln or at the very least FDR but everything beyond that seems not worth the effort / controversial.). And if they're going to include a Canadian civ, it would soon be overcrowded.

Theodore Roosevelt was an excellent choice by the way.

If they have to go with a US second leader, I think I'd prefer Jefferson. Make it an exoloring/land-purchasing ability.

The civs that are just screaming for second leaders first are Rome, Egypt, India, China.

 

[Siptah]

I just had a thought: I actually don't want to have Ethiopia, Mali, Maya, Assyria and Portugal in an expansion. I want wonders and scenarios for all those civs And an expansion probably won't come with 8 scenarios or 8 wonders. Maybe some civs can have combined scenarios (as in Gifts of the Nile), but still - probably not for every one.

 

[CivLuvah]

Thinking about expansion... If it had nine Civs, wich would you like to see in it?

My nine civs:
1. MONGOLS - we REALLY need them. Isn't it odd that they weren't in the base game in Civ5 like in Civ6?
2. Incas
3. Maya
4. Mali
5. Kilwa
6. Italy - something to use the alternative leader system to its potential
7. Iroquois
8. Ottomans
9. Lakota

 

[GenyaArikado]

We need King Tamar of Georgia

 

[sadsquid]

My 9 civs I'd like to see in an expansion:

1. Inca
2. Mayans
3. Carthage (or Phonecia or both haha)
4. Mongols
5. Byzantium
6. Zulu
7. Iroquois
8. Ottomans
9. Babylon (or I'd take Assyria)

Would love to see the Olmecs and the Minoans, but without info on their leaders, it would be unlikely.

I think if going for off-shoot or successor civs, most should be a separate civ I think. E.g: Byzantium, Carthage, or the numerous Persian empires. I think they could just change the name depending on who else is in the game though. Like Byzantium can be called Byzantium unless Rome is also in the game, and in that case their name can be automatically changed to Eastern Roman Empire. Or if multiple Persian empires are in the game, they can change the name to Achaemenid, Parthian or Sassanid. But if there's just one of them in the game, they can just be named Persia.

 

[Roman Citizen]

My 9 are

1. Mongolia
2.Ottomans
3.Ashanti
4.Burma
5.Inca
6. Mali
7.Ethiopia
8.Apache
9.Iroquois

 

[Guatenadian]

Here are mine:

Canada
Pueblo
Korea
Inca
Maya
Cree
Mali
Zulu

I just really hope we get a lot more Civs in underrepresented continents. I was always disappointed when I saw the Americas and Oceania hardly represented in Civ 5.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I for one would welcome some map packs. I loved the Scrambled Continents and Scrambled Nations map packs for Civ5, and I'd love something similar for Civ6.

Well, I've compiled a few maps in the spirit of Civ V's Scrambled Maps, from satellite images no less →
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=909710299 (Australia)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=920391994 (Africa)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=926953938 (South America)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=931053823 (North America)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=923329289 (Greenland)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=933600285 (Antarctica)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1104907946 (Southeast Asia)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1138930236 (South Asia)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1124979000 (Arctic Ocean)

On topic, my 9 civs:
The Zulu
The Mongols
The Inuit
Venice
Portugal
The Maya
The Inca
The Shoshone
Ethiopia

 

[Morningcalm]

I think the Mayans ought to be in the first expansion with the Inca, but I wonder if having them and another North American Native American civ might be deemed too overrepresentative--it's entirely possible we get one of them in the second expansion or in DLC.

But we will see. I hope that 10 new races are added, that would help cover some of the gaps caused by Firaxis' Eurocentric vanilla build. We may end up with only one African nation and one Asian nation added in the first expansion, perhaps. But we can only really speculate.

You could use Lahan Unen Mo' as a female leader for Tikal. While I would prefer her husband, I you must choose a female leader for Tikal, she's probably the way to go. Lady Six Sky is more famous, sure, but what we really know about her is actually not that much - a lot is just romantic warrior queen fantasy.

Wrong re: Lady Six Sky; we have relatively good records and scholarly consensus as to her warrior status: http://www.mesoweb.com/encyc/index.asp?passcall=rightframeexact&rightframeexact=http://www.mesoweb.com/encyc/view.asp?act=viewexact&view=normal&word=Sky&wordAND=Lady+Six

Quote from the page:

Naranjo's count of rulers in the line of the founder does not accord her a number in the sequence; but she was a queen for all intents and purposes (ibid.:74-75). Monuments carry her image and record her performance of calendrical celebrations in the manner of royalty; she is even shown trampling captives in the guise of a warrior queen (ibid.:74).

It is never stated that she was the mother of her successor, K'ahk' Tiliw Chan Chaak, who was born five years after her arrival, but scholars have assumed this to be the case (in inscriptions, she likens herself to the mother of Naranjo ruler Aj Wosal Chan K'inich) (Martin and Grube 2000:75, in press). She must have served as queen regnant during the infancy of K'ahk' Tiliw Chan Chaak, and since he acceded at age five, she was at least effectively co-ruler for many years thereafter (Martin and Grube 2000:75-76, in press). Thus the remarkable string of military victories nominally attributed to the child king were actually the achievements of Lady Six Sky; one of her depictions as an Amazon bestriding a vanquished foe dates to AD 702, when K'ahk' Tiliw Chan Chaak had already been king for five years (Martin and Grube 2000:76, in press). This warfare may have been less a matter of military expansionism than a reaction to neighboring polities testing the strength of a female ruler (Martin and Grube 2000:76).

I should add that Lady Six Sky was not the only successful Mayan warrior queen. In fact, of the Mesoamerican civs, the Mayans are the best candidate for a female ruler. There are several excellent options for Mayan queens who actually ruled as such (instead of merely being the wife of a famous Mayan king or the grandmother/mother of a famous king); the ones that stand out, however, are Lady Six Sky (known for her calendrical rituals) and Lady K'abel (read here and here about her, including her status as Kaloomte, or "supreme warrior," which gave her greater authority than the king).

As to the dislike for female warrior rulers, consider that many impressive (ancient/medieval/Renaissance/Enlightenment) female rulers in history were warriors--I think in part this may have been out of necessity, as women being wedded to men and holding lesser power is a very common tale indeed (Jadwiga is unfortunately one example, and regarded by at least some Polish posters in these forums as not having actually ruled all that much despite her status as a queen).

A warrior queen like Zenobia or Lady Six Sky holding power in her own right would probably have to have some authority over her armies to rule without being rebelled against, i.e. military authority. Queen Seondeok, who lacked such authority (and was revolted against unsuccessfully by a Silla official), at least had the loyalty of a great general, Kim Yu-sin, to defeat such rebels. Of course, if the tales be true, Tomyris was a widow who resisted being added to Cyrus' harem, in part because that would have given him authority over her lands, and over her. I should also point out that Catherine the Great and Maria Theresa are seen as "warriors" in the sense that they were very successful conquerors--and Elizabeth wore armor before giving her speech to English soldiers when defending against the Spanish Armada.

Women representing themselves as warriors was often, it seems, the best way to demonstrate and possess some authority as a ruling monarch. Rulers in societies as far away as Egypt and England often were expected to defend their nation successfully (hence the reverence for Senusret III and Henry V, though both had numerous other accomplishments on a domestic level that were arguably as important as their military accomplishments).

It occurs to me, though, some Civ fans may not want too many female rulers, so we might see a male Ethiopian/Mali monarch instead of say Queen Idia or Yaa Asantewaa for Africa, to balance out any female Mayan monarch or Byzantine monarch, etc.

 

[Amrunril]

I just had a thought: I actually don't want to have Ethiopia, Mali, Maya, Assyria and Portugal in an expansion. I want wonders and scenarios for all those civs And an expansion probably won't come with 8 scenarios or 8 wonders. Maybe some civs can have combined scenarios (as in Gifts of the Nile), but still - probably not for every one.

I agree that 8 scenarios is unlikely, but I'd be very surprised if an expansion doesn't have at least 8 wonders. That said, I'm not sure continuing to add a wonder for every civ is a good idea. It comes across as a bit too formulaic for my taste, and while I think there's no such thing as too many civs, as long as they continue to be well designed, there is such a thing as too many world wonders, since every one of them will be part of every game.

I think the Mayans ought to be in the first expansion with the Inca, but I wonder if having them and another North American Native American civ might be deemed too overrepresentative--it's entirely possible we get one of them in the second expansion or in DLC.

I don't think it would be at all overrepresentative. The Inca, Maya and a couple North American civs (I think that's the most anyone's suggested) would make a total of 7 American civs (5 pre-Columbian, 2 colonial) at a point when the game will have roughly 35.

It occurs to me, though, some Civ fans may not want too many female rulers, so we might see a male Ethiopian/Mali monarch instead of say Queen Idia or Yaa Asantewaa for Africa, to balance out any female Mayan monarch or Byzantine monarch, etc.

I don't know enough about these leaders to say whether or not they're the best choices, but having enough female leaders that they need to be "balanced out" isn't a problem the game is anywhere close to having

 

[Siptah]

@Amrunril you can never have enough natural wonders
@Morningcalm that's actually just proving my point. I made a little research and looked at all depictions and texts mentioning her. I also read three papers on her, only this one is open access however (http://vurj.vanderbilt.edu/index.php/vurj/article/download/2709/1144). So I can conclude that we don't know much about her. Some of the scenes show her as a warrior, as is expected from rulers - as you said as well. And one (the trampling) is a scene that is not known from other female rulers. We know that she won some battles, but she also ruled long (59 years). Concluding from this that she was a warrior queen seems a bit too much. Especially since one of her main concerns seems legitimizing her rule. She was without doubt very powerful, however (despite having an overlord). Gender of the Maya elite seems an interesting topic and unlike what we are used to today. I tried reading about it, but quit two papers shortly after starting due to missing too much knowledge about Maya culture, religion and society. Might be of interest to you, since you obviously are interested in female rulers and their iconography (without the geographical limitations that apply for me).
It would also be interesting to see how Firaxis would display a female Maya ruler...