Civ6's First Expansion: Who would you include?

Please no Native American civs for me. Never liked the Zulu either. Mongols I'm meeeeehhhhh on.

Give me, in no particular order:

1) Carthage
2) South Africa
3) Austria
4) Korea
5) Babylon or Assyria
6) Portugal
7) Thailand
8) Cambodia


a) Another Russian leader (someone with tanks, or Catherine, or Nicholas)
b) Another US leader (FDR or TJ)
c) Another Roman leader
 
Please no Native American civs for me. Never liked the Zulu either. Mongols I'm meeeeehhhhh on.

Give me, in no particular order:

1) Carthage
2) South Africa
3) Austria
4) Korea
5) Babylon or Assyria
6) Portugal
7) Thailand
8) Cambodia


a) Another Russian leader (someone with tanks, or Catherine, or Nicholas)
b) Another US leader (FDR or TJ)
c) Another Roman leader


You think South Africa should be in over the largest land empire the world has ever seen?

I do think there should be room for just variety, and I agree with people that don't think the most important should be the only ones in the list. But IMO some civs are musts. China, India, probably England, Rome, Egypt. Mongolia.

Anyhow . . .
1. Mongols
2. Inca
3. Netherlands
4. Maybe Phonecia over Carthage this time around would be a cool change
5. I'd like Tibet but it's impossible
6. Iroquois
7. Still think Maori would make for an interesting civ design
8. Babylon
9. Probably some I'm not remembering ATM

a. Rome leader
b. Egypt
c. China
d. India
 
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Re: Amrunril not having an issue with too many female rulers, that is not my point re: balancing. Female rulers tend to generate more backlash than male rulers, and as such I suspect Firaxis will include about as many female rulers as males, with a slight advantage to male representation. If I had my way, I would be fine with an expansion with the majority being female rulers--you could call it "Monarchs and Majesty" or "Majesties and Mothers" and feature Lady Six Sky, Queen Seondeok, Theodora, Boudicca, Queen Idia, Dihya, Dido, Jigonhsasee, Semiramis, Yaa Asantewaa, Zenobia, Queen Isabella of Spain, Catherine the Great for Russia, Elizabeth I of England. There could be a random map script for all female rulers on an Earth map, etc.

But Firaxis won't do that, most likely.

@Morningcalm that's actually just proving my point. I made a little research and looked at all depictions and texts mentioning her. I also read three papers on her, only this one is open access however (http://vurj.vanderbilt.edu/index.php/vurj/article/download/2709/1144). So I can conclude that we don't know much about her. Some of the scenes show her as a warrior, as is expected from rulers - as you said as well. And one (the trampling) is a scene that is not known from other female rulers. We know that she won some battles, but she also ruled long (59 years). Concluding from this that she was a warrior queen seems a bit too much. Especially since one of her main concerns seems legitimizing her rule. She was without doubt very powerful, however (despite having an overlord). Gender of the Maya elite seems an interesting topic and unlike what we are used to today. I tried reading about it, but quit two papers shortly after starting due to missing too much knowledge about Maya culture, religion and society. Might be of interest to you, since you obviously are interested in female rulers and their iconography (without the geographical limitations that apply for me).
It would also be interesting to see how Firaxis would display a female Maya ruler...

We know a lot about Six Sky relative to many other Mayan monarchs though. Many Mayan queens have less on the record beyond whether they were mothers of famous kings or wives of famous kings. With Lady Six Sky and K'abel we see more active and aggressive queenly rule. If you want someone who was more obviously a warrior, you could go with Lady K'abel. But the point is that both were successful in their fights with neighboring Mayan city state rivals. So I don't see how this proves your point much at all. Far from that, we can see that it is not a "fantasy" that Lady Six Sky was a warrior queen, and she is portrayed as trampling the conquered underfoot (this is not the case with other Mayan queens, even those who we have found portrayed dressed in war regalia).
 
Civs:

Maya (Lady K'abel)
Mongolia (Kublai Khan)
Netherlands (Johan de Witt)
Ethiopia(Menelik II)
Korea (Seondeok)
Bulgaria(Simeon I)
Byzantium (Basil II)
Mali (Mansa Musa)
Comanche (Buffalo Hump)

New Leaders:
Phillip Augustus (France)
Akbar (India)
Djoser (Egypt)
Taizong(China)
 
Sorry about that, I edited after that post. Didn't mean to sound confrontational about that as it came out.

Well, your reaction is understandable. I get it. And I play giant TSL, and there is a whole lot of empty space that Mongolia could take up. But I have my reasons. I started to explain why, in this post, then realized it would just be a long disinteresting post to most, and I'd have to face @Zaarin 's avatar giving me that look the rest of my life. So I won't go into details.
 
Since we have had 19 civs in the base game (counting the Aztecs as the base game) and the improbable inclusions (Macedonia, Scythia and Australia), I do not believe we will see less than 45 civs when the game is complete, given that the big names will certainly return along with civs surprises and unexpected. I think we can expect at least 10 civs per expansion and some DLCs in the period between expansions. And I still think we'll see two more DLCs that include civs from the Americas.

About the wonders, I think we will continue to see wonders being included with their civs (at least in most of them, some civs do not make sense to get wonders, like the Zulus), just as some civs who already have wonders will have more. So I see no reason for them to include only 6-7 wonders per expasion, I think we can expect at least 10. Note that our base game included 30 wonders, a number higher than we usually have in previous versions, 28 wonders. And the number of wonders in the DLCs can outweigh the 'Ancient 7 Wonders of the World Pack' of Civ5.

Anyway, I believe that we will have at least 20/25% more of civilizations and wonders compared to civ5.
 
My list for new civs and leaders, I believe that CIV 6 will have total civs more than 43 civs that CIV V had as I doubt that CIV 6 will have about 50-60

New Civs:
Hungary (Stephen I/Istvan I or Árpád or Louis I) - one of powerful nation along with Poland in Central/Eastern Europe - Eastern Europe
Turkey(this time include Seljuk, Ottomans and Republican) (Mehmed II or Abdulmejid I or Alp Arslan) - Ottoman Empire is one of important empire that spans over 3 continents and significant for first world military marching band - Eastern Europe/Western Asia
Korea (Seondok or Dongmyeong/Jumong or Wang Kon/Taejo of Goryeo) - Korea is one of important civ for science - East Asia
Mali (Sundiata Keita) - one of important civilization in West Africa - West Africa
Netherlands (Wilhelmina or de Witt) - We need more civ that focus on money and trade, Netherlands is one of important colonial Empire - Western Europe
Inca (Manco Capac or Túpac Amaru II) - We need civs from Pre Columbian era to be in the game, Inca was one of Empire in South America that rivally to Chimu) - South America
Siam/Thailand (Naresuan or Taksin or Phibunsongkhram) - We need another Southeast Asian civ along with two others in upcoming DLC and one of SE Asian civ survived from western colonialism, Siam should be cultural and trading civ as Ayutthaya was one of important trade hub in the world as Ayutthaya known as Venice of the East and was largest city in the world in that time - Southeast Asia
Carthage/Phoenicia(This time Carthage should be merged with Phoenicians) (Hannibal or Hiram I) - Phoenicia is known for trading and invention of alphabet which is ancestor alphabet of Latin, Greek and Indian - Western Asia
Mongolia (Kublai Khan or Damdin Sükhbaatar or Ogadei Kham) - Mongolia should be another cavalry warmongering along with Scythia, Mongolia was one of important civ that span through Eurasia which leading to contract between East and West- East Asia
Vietnam (Trung Sisters or Le Loi or Gia Long) - Vietnam is one of important civ for resisting foreign invasions - Southeast Asia

New Leaders:
Qianlong (China)
Charlemange (France and Germany)
Vladimir the Great (Russia)
Lincoln (America)
Thutmose III (Egypt)
Julius Caesar (Rome)

New City States:
Singapore
Quebec
Dubai
Doha
Prague
Riga
Yangon
Helsinki
Dublin
Cape Town
Havana
Malacca

Scenario:
Mongol Scenario(This time Kublai Khan era)
Ottoman conquest of Europe
Vietnam War
World War I
American Revolution
Charlemagne conquest

New Features in expansion:
Diplomatic victory (From CIV 5)
Corporation (from CIV 4 BTS)
Vassalization (from CIV 4 Warlords)
Colonialism
Horde Army types
Rebellion system when rebels successfully capture they can create new civs when the former overlord accept peace deal from rebels
Unit art styles (from CIV 4 BTS)
Enlightenment or Imperial Age which between renaissance and industrial Age

DLC if possible for expansion
Balkan DLC - Serbia(Stefan Dušan), Bulgaria(Simeon II) and Romania(Vlad III) with scenario Balkan War also adding new leader for Greece, Venizelos
Native American DLC - Iroquois (Joseph Brant), Sioux (Sitting Bulls) and Apache(not sure the leader) with Scenario Colonization of North America also adding new leader for Aztec Itzcoatl
Indian Ocean scenario DLC - Portugal(Manuel I), Ethiopia(Zara Yaqob) and Swahili(not sure the leader) with Scenario about Indian Ocean which about trading also adding new leader for Indonesia, Iskandar Muda (if Indonesia is in upcoming dlc)
Sengoku Jidai scenario DLC - Scenario about Warring States which has Oda Nobunaga, Takeda Shingen like that with adding new leader for Japan, Kanmu and features
Reconquista DLC - Scenario about Christian taking lands back from the Moors, Adding Berber or Maghreb civ with Leader named Yusuf ibn Tashfin and also adding new leader for Spain, Alfonso IX and Portugal Afonso Henriques(if you don't have Indian Ocean DLC you wont able to play Manuel I)
 
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I love wish-lists, but because we still miss so many civs that are a must in my opinion I hardly have room for newcomers with only 9 civs.

1 Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
2 the Ottomans (Suleiman)
3 the Inca
4 the Maya (Pacal)
5 the Netherlands (Willem van Oranje)
6 Korea (Sejeon)
7 Ethiopia
8 the Iroquois
9 Italy

New Leaders::
France (Louis XIV)
Egypt (Ramses)

City States:
Singapore, Prague, Vienna, Cape Town, Havana, Budapest, Bangkok, Bogota,
 
I'd like to see (in order of preference):
-Mongolia - Genghis Khan
-Tibet - Songtsen Gampo
-Cambodia - Suryavarman II
-Vietnam - The Trung Sisters
-Georgia - Tamar the Great
-Italy - Cavour or Garibaldi
-The Inca - Pachacuti
-Ethiopia - Menelik II
-Samoa - Salamasina
And why not Canada as well, I mean if we're adding nations instead of civilizations we might as well throw in the True North Strong and Free. Probably led by Mckenzie

Also additional leaders I'd like to see
-India - Shah Jahan and Ashoka
-China - Taizong or Yongle or Wu Zetian
-Egypt - Thutmosis III or Hatshepsut
-France - François I or Louis XIV or Cardinal Richelieu
-Russia - Lenin or Ivan IV
-Greece - Leonidas I
-England - Alfred the Great
-Japan - Meiji
 
If specifically themed

Nebudchadnezzar II of Babylon
Ashurbanipal of Assyria
Hatshepsut of Egypt
Dido of Carthage
Suppiluliuma II of Hittites
Attila of the Huns
Genghis Khan of Mongolia
Seondeok of Korea
Julius Caesar of Rome
Ashoka of India
Justinian of Byzantium
Xoc of Maya

expansion focusing on the ancient world.
 
If we get Dido again, I just hope that this time we don't get her with the Roman name but either with a version of her Phoenician name 'Išt (or as Elyssa which seems to be derived from that somehow). I know everybody loves Vergil, but give the languages and names of civs at least some credit. Translations (like Philip instead of Felipe) are ok and for many people necessary as it seems, or using adapted names (like Nebuchadnezzar), or using honorary names (like Genghis Khan or Djoser). Using completely different names from other languages seems weird. Using Mvemba a Nzinga instead of Afonso gives me hope.
 
Korea (Seondok or Dongmyeong/Jumong or Wang Kon/Taejo of Goryeo) - Korea is one of important civ for science - East Asia
Strictly speaking Wang Kon/Taejo rebelled from Goryeo and founded Joseon.

-Greece - Leonidas I
We so need another Greek leader; it's not like we already have four of them. :crazyeye:
 
I think the Mayans ought to be in the first expansion with the Inca, but I wonder if having them and another North American Native American civ might be deemed too overrepresentative--it's entirely possible we get one of them in the second expansion or in DLC.

But we will see. I hope that 10 new races are added, that would help cover some of the gaps caused by Firaxis' Eurocentric vanilla build. We may end up with only one African nation and one Asian nation added in the first expansion, perhaps. But we can only really speculate.


Wrong re: Lady Six Sky; we have relatively good records and scholarly consensus as to her warrior status: http://www.mesoweb.com/encyc/index.asp?passcall=rightframeexact&rightframeexact=http://www.mesoweb.com/encyc/view.asp?act=viewexact&view=normal&word=Sky&wordAND=Lady+Six

Quote from the page:



I should add that Lady Six Sky was not the only successful Mayan warrior queen. In fact, of the Mesoamerican civs, the Mayans are the best candidate for a female ruler. There are several excellent options for Mayan queens who actually ruled as such (instead of merely being the wife of a famous Mayan king or the grandmother/mother of a famous king); the ones that stand out, however, are Lady Six Sky (known for her calendrical rituals) and Lady K'abel (read here and here about her, including her status as Kaloomte, or "supreme warrior," which gave her greater authority than the king).

As to the dislike for female warrior rulers, consider that many impressive (ancient/medieval/Renaissance/Enlightenment) female rulers in history were warriors--I think in part this may have been out of necessity, as women being wedded to men and holding lesser power is a very common tale indeed (Jadwiga is unfortunately one example, and regarded by at least some Polish posters in these forums as not having actually ruled all that much despite her status as a queen).

A warrior queen like Zenobia or Lady Six Sky holding power in her own right would probably have to have some authority over her armies to rule without being rebelled against, i.e. military authority. Queen Seondeok, who lacked such authority (and was revolted against unsuccessfully by a Silla official), at least had the loyalty of a great general, Kim Yu-sin, to defeat such rebels. Of course, if the tales be true, Tomyris was a widow who resisted being added to Cyrus' harem, in part because that would have given him authority over her lands, and over her. I should also point out that Catherine the Great and Maria Theresa are seen as "warriors" in the sense that they were very successful conquerors--and Elizabeth wore armor before giving her speech to English soldiers when defending against the Spanish Armada.

Women representing themselves as warriors was often, it seems, the best way to demonstrate and possess some authority as a ruling monarch. Rulers in societies as far away as Egypt and England often were expected to defend their nation successfully (hence the reverence for Senusret III and Henry V, though both had numerous other accomplishments on a domestic level that were arguably as important as their military accomplishments).

It occurs to me, though, some Civ fans may not want too many female rulers, so we might see a male Ethiopian/Mali monarch instead of say Queen Idia or Yaa Asantewaa for Africa, to balance out any female Mayan monarch or Byzantine monarch, etc.


Ed Beach take notice! You've got your Native American Queens, right here!!!!!
 
Well, your reaction is understandable. I get it. And I play giant TSL, and there is a whole lot of empty space that Mongolia could take up. But I have my reasons. I started to explain why, in this post, then realized it would just be a long disinteresting post to most, and I'd have to face @Zaarin 's avatar giving me that look the rest of my life. So I won't go into details.


My thought for a South African Civ, other than Zulu, was actually doing the Boers as a Civ, like how they were in the Civ V Scramble for Africa scenario. It would make an interesting agriculture-based Civ, with guerilla warfare tactics. I love TSL earth too, and I hate that 3 of the 4 Civs with their capital located in Africa are all way too close to one another (Egypt, Arabia, Nubia), leaving Kongo as the only sub-Saharan country.
 
My thought for a South African Civ, other than Zulu, was actually doing the Boers as a Civ, like how they were in the Civ V Scramble for Africa scenario. It would make an interesting agriculture-based Civ, with guerilla warfare tactics. I love TSL earth too, and I hate that 3 of the 4 Civs with their capital located in Africa are all way too close to one another (Egypt, Arabia, Nubia), leaving Kongo as the only sub-Saharan country.
Meh, still better than when Poland, Germany, Rome, Norway and France all appear in Europe... I played multiplayer with my brother, he was playing as France, I was playing as Brazil. I had both Americas for me, and he had so little space for cities - Germany couldn't even settle their capital :P

And even if Europe is quite overcrowded, I still want my Bohemia to appear :crazyeye:
 
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