Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[Morningcalm]

We've disagreed on this already. I don't see a need to just say "I'm right" repeatedly. Especially when you're wrong.

 

[Riconatic]

We've disagreed on this already. I don't see a need to just say "I'm right" repeatedly. Especially when you're wrong.

This is not matter of opinion or disagreement.

There is no evidence of denuvo anti-tamper doing anything to PC itself. If you claim it does something to to your PC it needs proof. And you need to provide it to make that claim. You even said that it is well known, so lots of proof should exist.

Or if you meant that it slows down games etc I think that is not ”doing anything to PC”. Even that case your PC is just fine.

 

[Morningcalm]

I mean, you can say that all day long, but there is extensive ink on the Internet about Denuvo's impact on performance: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYNijcMZoiLRp697-RzKArVtTMbCryrxM

Your defense of Denuvo has also been noted by Redditors:

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1f7ybkd/how_do_you_all_feel_about_civ_7_having_denuvo_drm

At some point Firaxis will need to step in to defend Denuvo. They are not winning over the fans. What this situation requires is open communication, like the kind we had in the Civ 6 days.

 

[Riconatic]

I mean, you can say that all day long, but there is extensive ink on the Internet about Denuvo's impact on performance: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYNijcMZoiLRp697-RzKArVtTMbCryrxM

We were (or I was) not discussing
A) Denuvo game performance.

We were discussing claim
B) popularly known what Denuvo does to a PC

A) and B) are quite different. Or as I understand english language. Very poor A does not cause B. PC will be fine even if game runs very very slow.

P.S.

Your defense of Denuvo has also been noted by Redditors:

I did not read your reddit link, so I am not sure what the reference is. But in general I think it is illegal to discuss me as person here in this forum or my defense of anything. Only subject at hand matters, not the persons.

 

[Morningcalm]

We were (or I was) not discussing
A) Denuvo game performance.

We were discussing claim
B) popularly known what Denuvo does to a PC

A) and B) are quite different. Or as I understand english language. Very poor A does not cause B. PC will be fine even if game runs very very slow.

P.S.


I did not read your reddit link, so I am not sure what the reference is. But in general I think it is illegal to discuss me as person here in this forum or my defense of anything. Only subject at hand matters, not the persons.

You are being overly semantic. The point is Denuvo negatively impacts gamers and its inclusion has a chance of harming legitimate purchasers.

If you don't read the Reddit link, how can you claim it's illegal? The posters examine your defense of Denuvo and your likely reasons for doing so. They do not attack you as a person or call you names (at least, as of the time of this writing; I make no guarantees for what they say later). What is clear is that you are outspoken and against popular opinion in this regard. If Firaxis wants to win back customer trust and get popular backing for its Denuvo launch, they need to say more. I can understand that they would be silent now given the anger from some quarters of the fanbase, and maybe they are preparing some kind of statement, but the silence from them is deafening.

 

[Riconatic]

You are being overly semantic. The point is Denuvo negatively impacts gamers and its inclusion has a chance of harming legitimate purchasers.

Facts need to stay clear, so misinformation does not spread like it has already for years.

If Firaxis wants to win back customer trust and get popular backing for its Denuvo launch, they need to say more. I can understand that they would be silent now given the anger from some quarters of the fanbase, and maybe they are preparing some kind of statement, but the silence from them is deafening.

I do not expect this. I believe last Firaxis/2k game was Marvel's Midnight Suns and there was no special campaign about denuvo if I recall correctly. I did not get that game on launch so I might be mistaken. And I do not even understand what Firaxis could say? "Game works fine even with Denuvo" and then what?

If you don't read the Reddit link, how can you claim it's illegal? The posters examine your defense of Denuvo and your likely reasons for doing so. They do not attack you as a person or call you names (at least, as of the time of this writing;

Bolded part is not discussing the topic, but person. Here we have rule "Trolling = Discussing the person, and not the topic.". So can we stay on topic?

Edition. I browsed the reddit thread and reference was not to me there I believe.

 

[Leyrann]

Firaxis hasn't demonstrated for this iteration of Civ the kind of consumer-centric communication that I liked seeing with Civ 6 (particularly with their later DLC and updates).

I'm gonna have to disagree there. Simply the fact that nowadays they occasionally post on the forums here, something they didn't do during Civ 6 development, already makes their communication for Civ 7 superior imo.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I do not expect this. I believe last Firaxis/2k game was Marvel's Midnight Suns and there was no special campaign about denuvo if I recall correctly. I did not get that game on launch so I might be mistaken.

On Steam, at least, there was a stink raised in November 2022 when people claimed Midnight Suns was shipping with Denuvo without the company disclosing that. Some people claimed that the rumor was untrue because (a) Firaxis has never used Denovu, and (b) 2K had always in the past disclosed in advance when it was using Denuvo. When in it was proven in early December that it the .exe did have Denuvo code, some people were rather peeved that Firaxis/2K didn't disclose this.

Other than that, the discussion was much like its been here. Some people saying Denovu is fine and why are you making a big fuss about nothing, other people stating it was an issue for them.

 

[Riconatic]

On Steam, at least, there was a stink raised in November 2022 when people claimed Midnight Suns was shipping with Denuvo without the company disclosing that. Some people claimed that the rumor was untrue because (a) Firaxis has never used Denovu, and (b) 2K had always in the past disclosed in advance when it was using Denuvo. When in it was proven in early December that it the .exe did have Denuvo code, some people were rather peeved that Firaxis/2K didn't disclose this.

Other than that, the discussion was much like its been here. Some people saying Denovu is fine and why are you making a big fuss about nothing, other people stating it was an issue for them.

Yes. That is what I recalled. There was no special communication or winning back customer trust or anything like that regarding denuvo from Firaxis/2K side. I am not expecting such "gain trust" -campaign this time either. And as I said, I do not see that there is anything they even can say to benefit anyone.

 

[Gorbles]

We've disagreed on this already. I don't see a need to just say "I'm right" repeatedly. Especially when you're wrong.

Then we should probably stop this incredibly well-trodden pattern of claiming objective facts, when there basically aren't any to go around? A YouTube link doesn't qualify, sorry. There are people who sincerely believe lizards in sewers eat children on YouTube, and evaluating the veracity of claims made takes a ton more time than anything written down. The trust you (understandably) do not have for Denuvo, I don't have for a random YouTube account. Hopefully understandably.

I think everyone is fully within rights to not trust Denuvo. I think people are more than fine to make purchasing decisions based on the inclusion of it. Choice is choice.

However, we do not have emphatic proof that Denuvo affects performance, at least in any real way claimed by people online over the years. We do have evidence that poor implementation can harm performance, but that's no different from a bunch of other things that can be implemented poorly. What we need, and what Denuvo needs to clear their reputation, is an independent third-party analysis. Otherwise everyone's just going to keep going around in circles.

Until we have that, you cannot and will not be "right".

 

[Bevel Lemelisk]

I was a bit behind the news here. I saw that Civ VII had Denuvo and decided I should go ahead and request a refund for my pre-purchase. I wish I had saw that piece of information much earlier, I would never have pre-purchased it if I had known. Ill just wait till the 'new release' time expires and they remove Denuvo from the install. Sad really, I have been a life long Civ fan, hate to see 2K go this route. (I have a feeling it wasnt Firaxis's decision.)

 

[Riconatic]

I was a bit behind the news here. I saw that Civ VII had Denuvo and decided I should go ahead and request a refund for my pre-purchase. I wish I had saw that piece of information much earlier, I would never have pre-purchased it if I had known. Ill just wait till the 'new release' time expires and they remove Denuvo from the install. Sad really, I have been a life long Civ fan, hate to see 2K go this route. (I have a feeling it wasnt Firaxis's decision.)

You might have noticd already, but last Firaxis/denuvo game have not had denuvo removed. Going on strong over 2 years now.

On other hand some 2k games have had it removed after six months or so.

Point being from history there is no guarantee of ”new release time expiration”.

 

[Civinator]

So a clear and visible message is needed, when Denuvo is removed.

 

[Kwami]

So a clear and visible message is needed, when Denuvo is removed.

They can't even be bothered to respond to this thread to explain themselves. They're not going to remove Denuvo.

 

[Gorbles]

They can't even be bothered to respond to this thread to explain themselves. They're not going to remove Denuvo.

Has 2K ever posted on this board before? If so, how frequently do they tend to? I can't really think of any, myself, but I mostly lurk the non-Off Topic subforums these days!

 

[Quintillus]

Has 2K ever posted on this board before? If so, how frequently do they tend to? I can't really think of any, myself, but I mostly lurk the non-Off Topic subforums these days!

Yes, but rarely. For example, this thread, or this post.

But I don't see what benefit they would have from replying in this thread. Would posting, "We believe that including Denuvo will increase sales by $XYZ and therefore it's a good idea" really make the Denuvo detractors happy? Or convinced?

If anything, if it is removed someday, we'll see a post like the one announcing the removal of the 2K Launcher from Civ VI.

In the meantime, I'll be applying Civinator's idea should Anno 1800 ever arrive on GOG. That probably is the most effective way to demonstrate demand for a Denuvo/launcher free version.

 

[Gorbles]

But I don't see what benefit they would have from replying in this thread. Would posting, "We believe that including Denuvo will increase sales by $XYZ and therefore it's a good idea" really make the Denuvo detractors happy? Or convinced?

Oh, I meant purely in a "we removed it sense", not a justification sense. Just feeling out the theory of possibility here.

I definitely wouldn't expect Firaxis to say it themselves.

 

[Kwami]

But I don't see what benefit they would have from replying in this thread. Would posting, "We believe that including Denuvo will increase sales by $XYZ and therefore it's a good idea" really make the Denuvo detractors happy? Or convinced?

They could attempt to correct some of the misinformation posted in this thread and reassure us that their implementation of Denuvo doesn't hurt performance or collect any personal information. They could let us know that they hear our concerns.

 

[TreVor_ish]

They could attempt to correct some of the misinformation posted in this thread and reassure us that their implementation of Denuvo doesn't hurt performance or collect any personal information. They could let us know that they hear our concerns.

That would require honesty on the matter.

 

[Bevel Lemelisk]

You might have noticd already, but last Firaxis/denuvo game have not had denuvo removed. Going on strong over 2 years now.

On other hand some 2k games have had it removed after six months or so.

Point being from history there is no guarantee of ”new release time expiration”.

It is my most sincere hope that they do remove it in 6 or so months time. I WANT this game. I want to pay them for it. But I will not knowingly install a game with Denuvo.