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CivGeneral's Catholicism Thread

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HighlandWarrior said:
i have very many questions about the catholic faith.

Where in the bible does it state a priest cannot marry?

no eating meat on fridays?

1 Timothy 4
The Great Apostasy
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


forbidding to marry is a doctrine of demons according to timothy. Same as commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be recieved with thanksgiving! Yes i understand that it is only on friday but you are still being commanded to abstain.
He speaks of the Gnostics, the Marcionites, the Eneratites, the Manicheans, and other ancient heretics, who absolutely condemned marriage, and the use of all kind of meat; because they pretended that all flesh was from an evil principle. Whereas the church of God, so far from condemning marriage, holds it a holy sacrament; and forbids it to none but such as by vow have chosen the better part: and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever in proper times and seasons; though she does not judge all kind of diet proper for days of fasting and penance.


1 Timothy 3
Qualifications of Overseers
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

"Of one wife"... The meaning is not that every bishop should have a wife (for St. Paul himself had none), but that no one should be admitted to the holy orders of bishop, priest, or deacon, who had been married more than once.


[Responses courtesy of Fr. Haydock...]


how does one become a saint in the catholic faith? from what i was taught in school, you have to perform 3 miracles after you die, is that true? if it is true, please give me a reference in the bible i cannot find it.
You were taught wrong information.
 
Inqvisitor said:
So you basically you want me to treat you as an atheist in which case the words of Pope St. Pius V, the Council of Trent, and Pope John XXIII mean nothing...?:confused:
No because I am not an atheist and not an agnostic. Also what you also dont understand is that I am a recently new Catholic who just got back into the faith not to long ago too. In other words, I dont want you to treat me like an athiest when the words of Past Popes, INCLUDING the late Pope John Paul II, and past Ecumenical Councils mean nothing. They mean something to me.

Inqvisitor said:
I think the C stands for communist there in "USCCB." That particularly corrupt institution has zero authority.
Communists in the USCCB?! I hardly doubt so. If there were commies in the USCCB, then it would not be in the United States, let alone in the Catholic Authority. The USCCB has authority within the United States of America and they do report directly to the Vatican.

Inqvisitor said:
You did not answer the question. "For all" or "for many?" That is the first test of true New Order shenanigans.
Inqvisitor said:
For example, did Christ offer His blood for all or for many?
Christ offer his blood for all

Inqvisitor said:
RCIA places an excessive amount of focus on the "people" and generic religion.
I actualy perfer a Classroomish type such as the RCIA insted of a one on one catechesis

Inqvisitor said:
Nobody knows what goes on at the Vatican II Mess. Not even the pope knows...:crazyeye:
Ohhh, So wrong on that one. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI knew about Vatican II and were even part of it. The Vatican II is most certanly not a Mess, abused perhaps, but not a mess.
 
CivGeneral said:
No because I am not an atheist and not an agnostic. Also what you also dont understand is that I am a recently new Catholic who just got back into the faith not to long ago too. In other words, I dont want you to treat me like an athiest when the words of Past Popes, INCLUDING the late Pope John Paul II, and past Ecumenical Councils mean nothing. They mean something to me.
So why did you ignore them before simply stating "VATICAN II" with no further explanation.


Communists in the USCCB?! I hardly doubt so. If there were commies in the USCCB, then it would not be in the United States, let alone in the Catholic Authority. The USCCB has authority within the United States of America and they do report directly to the Vatican.
USSCB has no authority. It is loaded with homosexuals and marxists, and they are certainly not "Catholic Authority."


Christ offer his blood for all
You might want to report that to Rome, since the Vatican II Novus Ordo Missae states "pro multis," for many, just as the Bible does. But I will quote from the traditional sources.


And his disciples went their way, and came into the city; and they found as he had told them, and they prepared the pasch. And when evening was come, he cometh with the twelve. And when they were at table and eating, Jesus saith: Amen I say to you, one of you that eateth with me shall betray me. But they began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one by one: Is it I? Who saith to them: One of the twelve, who dippeth with me his hand in the dish. And the Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed. It were better for him, if that man had not been born. And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many. Amen I say to you, that I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it new in the kingdom of God.
(Gospel According to Saint Mark xivXVI-XXV)

The Consecration (Missale Romanum):

HIC EST ENIM CALIX SANGUINIS MEI, NOVI ET AETERNI TESTAMENTI: MYSTERIUM FIDEI, QUI PRO VOBIS ET PRO MULTIS EFFUNDETUR IN REMISSIONEM PECCATORUM.

[FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT, THE MYSTERY OF FAITH, WHICH FOR YOU AND FOR MANY SHALL BE SHED UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.
]


Ohhh, So wrong on that one. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI knew about Vatican II and were even part of it. The Vatican II is most certanly not a Mess, abused perhaps, but not a mess.
No, they do not know and do not seem to care when you have clown "mass" or buddhist meditation "mass."

Josef Ratzinger was blacklisted and censured numerous times for Modernist heretical views under Pope Pius XII.

 
Inqvisitor said:
So why did you ignore them before simply stating "VATICAN II" with no further explanation.
Because those old scrptures have no relevance in the Vatican II world.


Inqvisitor said:
USSCB has no authority. It is loaded with homosexuals and marxists, and they are certainly not "Catholic Authority."
The USCCB has an Catholic Authority in the United States, end of story and leave you with this that they have in their website.
USCCB said:
The USCCB is an assembly of the Catholic Church hierarchy who work together to unify, coordinate, promote, and carry on Catholic activities in the United States; to organize and conduct religious, charitable, and social welfare work at home and abroad; to aid in education; and to care for immigrants. The bishops themselves constitute the membership of the Conference and are served by a staff of over 350 lay people, priests, deacons, and religious.

Inqvisitor said:
You might want to report that to Rome, since the Vatican II Novus Ordo Missae states "pro multis," for many, just as the Bible does. But I will quote from the traditional sources.
Not sure why I need to report that to Rome :confused:. I have always thought it was that he offered to all. I do admit, I have not been properly educated in my faith, then again, I fell out of the church at a very young age.

Inqvisitor said:
And his disciples went their way, and came into the city; and they found as he had told them, and they prepared the pasch. And when evening was come, he cometh with the twelve. And when they were at table and eating, Jesus saith: Amen I say to you, one of you that eateth with me shall betray me. But they began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one by one: Is it I? Who saith to them: One of the twelve, who dippeth with me his hand in the dish. And the Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed. It were better for him, if that man had not been born. And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many. Amen I say to you, that I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it new in the kingdom of God.
(Gospel According to Saint Mark xivXVI-XXV)

The Consecration (Missale Romanum):

HIC EST ENIM CALIX SANGUINIS MEI, NOVI ET AETERNI TESTAMENTI: MYSTERIUM FIDEI, QUI PRO VOBIS ET PRO MULTIS EFFUNDETUR IN REMISSIONEM PECCATORUM.

[FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT, THE MYSTERY OF FAITH, WHICH FOR YOU AND FOR MANY SHALL BE SHED UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.
]
Let me see what the New American Bible states...
Mark 14:24 said:
He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many.
By goly Inqvisitor is right on that one and has shaken the halls in the Cathedral of Coruscant in New Port City :eek:. Though your version said "Testiment" while mines says "covenant" :hmm:

Inqvisitor said:
No, they do not know and do not seem to care when you have clown "mass" or buddhist meditation "mass."

Josef Ratzinger was blacklisted and censured numerous times for Modernist heretical views under Pope Pius XII.
I dont see whats wrong with Moderisim. I believe in Moderisim and I dont see it as heretical.
 
CivGeneral said:
Because those old scrptures have no relevance in the Vatican II world.
What "old scriptures?" POPE JOHN XXIII CALLED VATICAN II! There would be not "Vatican II" world if not for him. Yet his Apostolic Constitution has no "relevance....?" You are not making sense again.

The USCCB has an Catholic Authority in the United States, end of story and leave you with this that they have in their website.
The Catholic Authority of the United States is in Rome.

Let me see what the New American Bible states...

By goly Inqvisitor is right on that one and has shaken the halls in the Cathedral of Coruscant in New Port City :eek:. Though your version said "Testiment" while mines says "covenant" :hmm:
Your "New American" also denies Mary as being full of grace, among many other anti-Catholic errors. If you have ever said the Angelic Salutation (Hail Mary) you have used "my" version, since the prayer does not exist in the NAB.

Spoiler :
The Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible vs. The New American Bible


Penance vs. Repent
The word penance in the D-R is replaced by repent in the NAB.

Penance – 1. A voluntary act of self-mortification or devotion expressing sorrow for sin. 2. A sacrament
in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and
absolution.


Clearly an action, not just a thought or feeling. This holds to Catholic teaching that penance must be done
to atone for sins and that mortal sin can only be removed through sincere confession and absolution by a
Catholic Priest.

Repent - 1.To feel remorse or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite. 2. To feel
such regret for past conduct as to change one’s mind regarding it: repented of poor behavior. 3. To make a
change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one’s sins.


By using the word repent, the NAB is saying that atonement is not necessary, nor is confession and
absolution. This is protestant teaching and absolutely not Catholic teaching. Do penance as stated in the
D-R is in no way the same as simply to repent in one’s mind as in the NAB.
This particular change of meaning is consistent through out the NAB.


Chastity vs. self control, morality
The words chastity and chaste in the D-R are replaced by self control and morality in the NAB. This
leaves the meaning open to interpretation.

Chaste - 1. Morally pure in thought or conduct; decent and modest. 2.a. not having experienced sexual
intercourse; virginal. b. abstaining from sexual intercourse; celibate.
Clearly talking about sexual conduct and purity of thoughts.

Morality - 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. 2. A system of ideas
of right and wrong conduct. 3. Virtuous conduct. 4. A rule or lesson in moral conduct.


Unclear and too much open to interpretation. Nothing is mentioned about anything of a sexual nature,
which is of course the topic of the verses using these words.
It is also true that standards of morality and virtue vary among societies, religious beliefs and individuals.

Self-Control - 1. Control of one’s emotions, desires, or actions by one’s own will.

Also very much open to interpretation and unclear. Not everybody’s idea of self-control is the same.
It’s very important to understand clearly what is meant and not to be confused. The NAB makes it easy to
fit scripture to anybody’s interpretation. The NAB also takes out Catholic teaching which has been part of
theses scriptures from the very beginning. The NAB is in effect a King James bible.


Charity vs. Love

Charity - 1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving. 2. Something given to help the needy;
alms. 3. A charitable institution, organization, or fund. 4. Benevolence or generosity toward others. 5.
Indulgence or forbearance in judging others.

Love - 1. A deep, tender feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from
kinship or a sense of oneness. 2. A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one
is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance. 3.a. Sexual passion. B. Sexual intercourse.
C. A love affair. 4. An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object. 5. A person who is
the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.


These two words do not have the same meaning. Charity encompasses love, but love does not encompass
charity. In fact, the word love includes some meanings which charity does not. These meanings can be
cause for confusion and abuse of Holy Scripture. From the definitions it is clear that charity is an action
word in keeping with the Church’s and the Holy Bible’s teaching on justification by works. Charity is
works. Love by itself is not works, but rather a yearning for self gratification.
Protestants insist that works are not necessary for salvation. This is contrary to Church teaching and the
Holy Bible, the original, unadulterated Bible as St. Jerome translated it from the original texts.
Definitions taken from The American Heritage College Dictionary, 3ed.

Other Consistent Examples
A list of less offensively substituted words follows. While not so offensive, the words have been “watered
down” to make them less Catholic sounding.
The word hell in the D-R is netherworld in the NAB. Technically the same place, but netherworld is nicer
sounding, less severe. Netherworld sounds like something out of Xena and Hercules.

The word Saint in the D-R is holy one in the NAB. These words are also technically the same. Saint is precise, and invokes beauty and mystery, a very Catholic word. "Holy ones" is vague, ambiguous, and rather bland as well. However again saint is traditionally a Catholic word and also apparently had to be made “diverse”.

The word sacrament in the D-R is mystery in the NAB. Mystery is the word for sacrament in the Eastern
Churches, but the majority of the Catholics in America are of the Latin Rite. Many people probably aren’t
aware of this meaning of the word mystery. So why cause confusion?

Confess sins in the D-R is acknowledge sins in the NAB. Not the same at all. Acknowledgement is the
first step, but certainly is not confession. The effect is not the same. It is the protestant belief that
acknowledgement is all that is necessary, but this is not Catholic teaching. This is a very dangerous misrepresentation.

In many places the word priest in the D-R is often replaced by the word presbyter in the NAB. The same,
but there’s that diversity again. I guess the protestant contributors didn’t like “priest”.


Some of the simple word changes seem insignificant at first glance, but for one trying to learn the faith, or
defend it they are a great impediment.
The “watering down” of the truth of Catholicism for diversity’s sake is just not acceptable. Certainly not to
any real Catholic.
Completely changing the meaning is an atrocity.

Some Examples
D-R St. Matthew 3:6
And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.
NAB Matthew 3:6
And were baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins.

D-R St. Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
NAB Matthew 4:17
From that time on, Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

D-R St. Luke 1:28

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou
among women.

NAB Luke 1:28
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

This is a complete change of meaning. Favored one is not the same as full of grace. Mary is a perfect
creation of God. Completely without sin or corruption of any kind, not even having original sin. That is,
full of grace. This is Catholic teaching. Protestants and other non-Catholics don’t believe this to be true.
They will say Mary was a good woman, even holy, but not perfect. The saints are favored ones, but they
are not perfect, without sin or corruption.
Also, notice the removal of “blessed art thou among women” from the NAB. Why do this? Could this be
the influence of the protestant scholars?
These verses are the beginning part of the Hail Mary prayer. This is where it came from. From the NAB
version, you certainly wouldn’t know this.

D-R Acts 8:22
Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may
be forgiven thee.
NAB Acts 8:22
Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your intention may be forgiven

D-R Acts 17:30
And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should
every where do penance.
NAB Acts 17:30
God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people every where repent

D-R Romans 8:24

For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for?
NAB Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?
But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with indurance.

This translation changes “we are saved by hope” to “we were saved”. The latter meaning fits with
protestant belief that once saved always saved. That we have been saved and all we have to do then is to
verbally accept Jesus Christ. Not so according to Catholic teaching. In fact the Church calls this the sin of
presumption because we are saved by faith, hope and charity, a life long struggle. We have not been saved,
but are constantly fighting for our salvation. Hence, the Church Militant.

D-R 1 Corinthians 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgement to himself, not discerning the
body of Christ.
NAB 1 Corinthians 11:29
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement on himself.

The meaning of the whole verse is changed by re-arrangement and the omission of unworthily. Only those
free from mortal sin are worthy of receiving the body and blood of Christ. Otherwise it is a sacrilege, a
grave sin.
The word discerning means to exhibit keen insight and good judgement; to be perceptive. This does not
mean worthy. It is good judgement not to receive the body and blood of Christ if one is not worthy. The
necessity of being worthy is left out of the NAB verse. This change downplays the fact that the host and
wine are actually (literally) the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The actual body, blood, soul and divinity
of Jesus Christ. More protestant influence?
The necessity of being worthy is in verse 27 of the NAB, but the consequences of receiving unworthily are
not as clear as when it is used in verse 29.

D-R 2 Corinthians 12:21

Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and
have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed.
NAB 2 Corinthians 12:21
I fear that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may have to mourn over many
of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, immorality, and licentiousness they
practiced.


This translation changes meaning and also contains uncertainty of meaning.

D-R Ephesians 2:4
But God, (who is rich in mercy,) for his exceeding charity wherewith he loved us,
NAB Ephesians 2:4
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us,

D-R Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved).
NAB Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been
saved).


Again the protestant salvation presumption mentality. God gives us graces to help us on our road to
salvation. But these graces must be accepted to help us.

D-R Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
NAB Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;

D-R Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as
becometh saints:
NAB Ephesians 5:3
Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones,

The NAB verse is not as clear as the D-R verse. Who is to say what morality is? We certainly have a lot of
confusion about it today. Also, saints is replaced with holy ones in the NAB.

D-R Ephesians 5:30
Because we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
NAB Ephesians 5:30
Because we are members of his body.

The Catholic Church is the living body of Christ, with Christ as the head and the faithful as the members.
This is clear in the D-R verse by “of his flesh, and of his bones”. This part is left out of the NAB verse
making it sound only spiritually rather than literally.

D-R Ephesians 5:32
This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the Church.
NAB Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the Church.

D-R 1 To Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the
priesthood.
NAB Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the
imposition of hands of the presbyterate.

“Grace” is protestantized to “gift”, “priesthood” to “presbyterate”. Sounds less Catholic.

D-R St. James 5:14
Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the Church, and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
NAB James 5:14
Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the Church, and they should pray over
him and anoint [him] with oil in the name of the Lord,

D-R 1 Of St. John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
NAB 1 John 1:9
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every
wrongdoing.

Does the NAB version say that confession is unnecessary? This is what protestants believe.

D-R Apocalypse 2:16

In like manner do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with sword of my
mouth.
NAB Revelation 2:16
Therefore, repent. Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and wage war against them with the sword of my
mouth.

D-R Apocalypse 3:19
Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance.
NAB Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.



I dont see whats wrong with Moderisim. I believe in Moderisim and I dont see it as heretical.
Pope Saint Pius X defined it as the synthesis of all heresies. Heretics don't typically see their own heresy as "heretical." I assume this applies to you in this case. Have you read those two documents on Modernism I mentioned some time ago?
 
Inqvisitor said:
What "old scriptures?" POPE JOHN XXIII CALLED VATICAN II! There would be not "Vatican II" world if not for him. Yet his Apostolic Constitution has no "relevance....?" You are not making sense again.

So why did you ignore them before simply stating "VATICAN II" with no further explanation.
Ok, you got me there. I dont see any of the Pre-Vatican II scriptures relevant to me. Thats why I chose to ignore the old scriptures and rely on the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Inqvisitor said:
The Catholic Authority of the United States is in Rome.
Then where do the Bishops in the United States to discuss amongs themselves in their own country?

Inqvisitor said:
Your "New American" also denies Mary as being full of grace, among many other anti-Catholic errors. If you have ever said the Angelic Salutation (Hail Mary) you have used "my" version, since the prayer does not exist in the NAB.
The words in comparison between the NAB that I use from the USCCB's website and your Bible are basicly the same. And How in the world does my NAB denies Mary in being full of grace?

Inqvisitor said:
Pope Saint Pius X defined it as the synthesis of all heresies. Heretics don't typically see their own heresy as "heretical." I assume this applies to you in this case. Have you read those two documents on Modernism I mentioned some time ago?
I did not read thoes two documents in Moderism for they dont apply to a Post-Vatican II Church. If I am a heretic for believing in moderism, if Modern Catholics who accepted moderism are heretics, So be it. We modern Catholics may be fauds in your eyes, but were Still Catholic.

Quite honestly, I dont wish to be a heretic nor a Catholic fraud :scared:.
 
CivGeneral said:
Ok, you got me there. I dont see any of the Pre-Vatican II scriptures relevant to me. Thats why I chose to ignore the old scriptures and rely on the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Quite pretentious of you to decide that the very foundations of the Catholic Faith are not "relevant" to you. Catholics do not abandon and change doctrine with the wind. If one wished for choose religion where you can pick and choose dogmas like off a Chinese menu, that is the essence of the Protestant religion.


Then where do the Bishops in the United States to discuss amongs themselves in their own country?
Most U.S. bishops do not even speak Latin. They are responsible for covering up heinous homosexual crimes, for subverting immigration law, promoting degeneracy, and overall destroying the Catholic Faith in America. Bishops' conferences have no more than one bishop does on his own.

The words in comparison between the NAB that I use from the USCCB's website and your Bible are basicly the same. And How in the world does my NAB denies Mary in being full of grace?
Somehow I guessed you would pretend to miss that "SPOILER" so I will instead post it again in full in a separate post.

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Douay-Rheims Bible (Gospel According to Saint Luke i. 28) [Catholic]

And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
New American Bible (Gospel According to Saint Luke i. 28) [Novus Ordo]

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

King James Version (Gospel According to Saint Luke i. 28) [Protestant]

I think it is plain to see there where the New American Bible borrowed its language from. Many men are "favoured" but Mary was unique as being full of grace, at least according to the Catholic Church. However even the Protestant King James Bible is reverent enough to include "blessed art thou among women," which the NAB quite cruelly omits. KJV is closer to the Catholic Scriptures than the Novus Ordo NAB is.

I did not read thoes two documents in Moderism for they dont apply to a Post-Vatican II Church. If I am a heretic for believing in moderism, if Modern Catholics who accepted moderism are heretics, So be it. We modern Catholics may be fauds in your eyes, but were Still Catholic.
THE FOLLOWING PROPOSITION IS CONDEMNED AS ERROR :
Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and all men, but rather inaugurated a religious movement adapted or to be adapted to different times and places.
--Pope Saint Pius X, Lamentabili Sane
 
Reposting so you won't miss it this time....

The Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible vs. The New American Bible


Penance vs. Repent
The word penance in the D-R is replaced by repent in the NAB.

Penance – 1. A voluntary act of self-mortification or devotion expressing sorrow for sin. 2. A sacrament
in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and
absolution.


Clearly an action, not just a thought or feeling. This holds to Catholic teaching that penance must be done
to atone for sins and that mortal sin can only be removed through sincere confession and absolution by a
Catholic Priest.

Repent - 1.To feel remorse or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite. 2. To feel
such regret for past conduct as to change one’s mind regarding it: repented of poor behavior. 3. To make a
change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one’s sins.


By using the word repent, the NAB is saying that atonement is not necessary, nor is confession and
absolution. This is protestant teaching and absolutely not Catholic teaching. Do penance as stated in the
D-R is in no way the same as simply to repent in one’s mind as in the NAB.
This particular change of meaning is consistent through out the NAB.


Chastity vs. self control, morality
The words chastity and chaste in the D-R are replaced by self control and morality in the NAB. This
leaves the meaning open to interpretation.

Chaste - 1. Morally pure in thought or conduct; decent and modest. 2.a. not having experienced sexual
intercourse; virginal. b. abstaining from sexual intercourse; celibate.
Clearly talking about sexual conduct and purity of thoughts.

Morality - 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. 2. A system of ideas
of right and wrong conduct. 3. Virtuous conduct. 4. A rule or lesson in moral conduct.


Unclear and too much open to interpretation. Nothing is mentioned about anything of a sexual nature,
which is of course the topic of the verses using these words.
It is also true that standards of morality and virtue vary among societies, religious beliefs and individuals.

Self-Control - 1. Control of one’s emotions, desires, or actions by one’s own will.

Also very much open to interpretation and unclear. Not everybody’s idea of self-control is the same.
It’s very important to understand clearly what is meant and not to be confused. The NAB makes it easy to
fit scripture to anybody’s interpretation. The NAB also takes out Catholic teaching which has been part of
theses scriptures from the very beginning. The NAB is in effect a King James bible.


Charity vs. Love

Charity - 1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving. 2. Something given to help the needy;
alms. 3. A charitable institution, organization, or fund. 4. Benevolence or generosity toward others. 5.
Indulgence or forbearance in judging others.

Love - 1. A deep, tender feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from
kinship or a sense of oneness. 2. A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one
is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance. 3.a. Sexual passion. B. Sexual intercourse.
C. A love affair. 4. An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object. 5. A person who is
the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.


These two words do not have the same meaning. Charity encompasses love, but love does not encompass
charity. In fact, the word love includes some meanings which charity does not. These meanings can be
cause for confusion and abuse of Holy Scripture. From the definitions it is clear that charity is an action
word in keeping with the Church’s and the Holy Bible’s teaching on justification by works. Charity is
works. Love by itself is not works, but rather a yearning for self gratification.
Protestants insist that works are not necessary for salvation. This is contrary to Church teaching and the
Holy Bible, the original, unadulterated Bible as St. Jerome translated it from the original texts.
Definitions taken from The American Heritage College Dictionary, 3ed.

Other Consistent Examples
A list of less offensively substituted words follows. While not so offensive, the words have been “watered
down” to make them less Catholic sounding.
The word hell in the D-R is netherworld in the NAB. Technically the same place, but netherworld is nicer
sounding, less severe. Netherworld sounds like something out of Xena and Hercules.

The word Saint in the D-R is holy one in the NAB. These words are also technically the same. Saint is precise, and invokes beauty and mystery, a very Catholic word. "Holy ones" is vague, ambiguous, and rather bland as well. However again saint is traditionally a Catholic word and also apparently had to be made “diverse”.

The word sacrament in the D-R is mystery in the NAB. Mystery is the word for sacrament in the Eastern
Churches, but the majority of the Catholics in America are of the Latin Rite. Many people probably aren’t
aware of this meaning of the word mystery. So why cause confusion?

Confess sins in the D-R is acknowledge sins in the NAB. Not the same at all. Acknowledgement is the
first step, but certainly is not confession. The effect is not the same. It is the protestant belief that
acknowledgement is all that is necessary, but this is not Catholic teaching. This is a very dangerous misrepresentation.

In many places the word priest in the D-R is often replaced by the word presbyter in the NAB. The same,
but there’s that diversity again. I guess the protestant contributors didn’t like “priest”.


Some of the simple word changes seem insignificant at first glance, but for one trying to learn the faith, or
defend it they are a great impediment.
The “watering down” of the truth of Catholicism for diversity’s sake is just not acceptable. Certainly not to
any real Catholic.
Completely changing the meaning is an atrocity.

Some Examples
D-R St. Matthew 3:6
And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.
NAB Matthew 3:6
And were baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins.

D-R St. Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
NAB Matthew 4:17
From that time on, Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

D-R St. Luke 1:28

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou
among women.

NAB Luke 1:28
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

This is a complete change of meaning. Favored one is not the same as full of grace. Mary is a perfect
creation of God. Completely without sin or corruption of any kind, not even having original sin. That is,
full of grace. This is Catholic teaching. Protestants and other non-Catholics don’t believe this to be true.
They will say Mary was a good woman, even holy, but not perfect. The saints are favored ones, but they
are not perfect, without sin or corruption.
Also, notice the removal of “blessed art thou among women” from the NAB. Why do this? Could this be
the influence of the protestant scholars?
These verses are the beginning part of the Hail Mary prayer. This is where it came from. From the NAB
version, you certainly wouldn’t know this.

D-R Acts 8:22
Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may
be forgiven thee.
NAB Acts 8:22
Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your intention may be forgiven

D-R Acts 17:30
And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should
every where do penance.
NAB Acts 17:30
God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people every where repent

D-R Romans 8:24

For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for?
NAB Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?
But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with indurance.

This translation changes “we are saved by hope” to “we were saved”. The latter meaning fits with
protestant belief that once saved always saved. That we have been saved and all we have to do then is to
verbally accept Jesus Christ. Not so according to Catholic teaching. In fact the Church calls this the sin of
presumption because we are saved by faith, hope and charity, a life long struggle. We have not been saved,
but are constantly fighting for our salvation. Hence, the Church Militant.

D-R 1 Corinthians 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgement to himself, not discerning the
body of Christ.
NAB 1 Corinthians 11:29
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement on himself.

The meaning of the whole verse is changed by re-arrangement and the omission of unworthily. Only those
free from mortal sin are worthy of receiving the body and blood of Christ. Otherwise it is a sacrilege, a
grave sin.
The word discerning means to exhibit keen insight and good judgement; to be perceptive. This does not
mean worthy. It is good judgement not to receive the body and blood of Christ if one is not worthy. The
necessity of being worthy is left out of the NAB verse. This change downplays the fact that the host and
wine are actually (literally) the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The actual body, blood, soul and divinity
of Jesus Christ. More protestant influence?
The necessity of being worthy is in verse 27 of the NAB, but the consequences of receiving unworthily are
not as clear as when it is used in verse 29.

D-R 2 Corinthians 12:21

Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and
have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed.
NAB 2 Corinthians 12:21
I fear that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may have to mourn over many
of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, immorality, and licentiousness they
practiced.


This translation changes meaning and also contains uncertainty of meaning.

D-R Ephesians 2:4
But God, (who is rich in mercy,) for his exceeding charity wherewith he loved us,
NAB Ephesians 2:4
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us,

D-R Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved).
NAB Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been
saved).


Again the protestant salvation presumption mentality. God gives us graces to help us on our road to
salvation. But these graces must be accepted to help us.

D-R Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
NAB Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;

D-R Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as
becometh saints:
NAB Ephesians 5:3
Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones,

The NAB verse is not as clear as the D-R verse. Who is to say what morality is? We certainly have a lot of
confusion about it today. Also, saints is replaced with holy ones in the NAB.

D-R Ephesians 5:30
Because we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
NAB Ephesians 5:30
Because we are members of his body.

The Catholic Church is the living body of Christ, with Christ as the head and the faithful as the members.
This is clear in the D-R verse by “of his flesh, and of his bones”. This part is left out of the NAB verse
making it sound only spiritually rather than literally.

D-R Ephesians 5:32
This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the Church.
NAB Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the Church.

D-R 1 To Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the
priesthood.
NAB Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the
imposition of hands of the presbyterate.

“Grace” is protestantized to “gift”, “priesthood” to “presbyterate”. Sounds less Catholic.

D-R St. James 5:14
Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the Church, and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
NAB James 5:14
Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the Church, and they should pray over
him and anoint [him] with oil in the name of the Lord,

D-R 1 Of St. John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
NAB 1 John 1:9
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every
wrongdoing.

Does the NAB version say that confession is unnecessary? This is what protestants believe.

D-R Apocalypse 2:16

In like manner do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with sword of my
mouth.
NAB Revelation 2:16
Therefore, repent. Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and wage war against them with the sword of my
mouth.

D-R Apocalypse 3:19
Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance.
NAB Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.
 
So ... how do we know who Peter chose to be Pope after him?

How does Inqvisitor restore the chain of popes in his version?
 
I'm the one true pope.:old: And I hereby declare that the catholic church, like all other organized religion, should be disbanded.
 
El_Machinae said:
So ... how do we know who Peter chose to be Pope after him?

How does Inqvisitor restore the chain of popes in his version?
Same way we know Lincoln was president from 1861-1865. It's written down.:eek:


After the Holy Apostles (Peter and Paul) had founded and set the Church in order (in Rome) they gave over the exercise of the episcopal office to Linus. The same Linus is mentioned by St. Paul in his Epistle to Timothy. His successor was Anacletus.
(St. Irenaeus Adv. haereses, III, iii, 3)
 
El_Machinae said:
When was that document written?

When did the Pope stop choosing his successor?
Around A.D. 170.

The cardinals who choose the pope are spritually descended from the Apostles who chose the pope in antiquity.
 
Inqvisitor: The Catholic Church is the universal Christian Church of the world. It is large to an extreme and has many diverse people within it. If you don't like it, that is just too bad. The Church is making itself relevent today to appeal to people, so that they can see the light, yet it still has the moral high ground. If anything, it it more moral now than it ever has been before. Thanks to religious freedoms in the 'West,' the Roman Catholic Church has basically become what it should have been years ago.

You can call as many people heretics as much as you want, but the reality is that you don't control who is and is not a heretic. If you want to do that, then form your own church, as it seems obvious you are not happy with His Holiness.

Now, this thread is for Catholics answering questions from non-Catholics. Lets keep it to that.
 
Zarn said:
Inqvisitor: The Catholic Church is the universal Christian Church of the world. It is large to an extreme and has many diverse people within it. If you don't like it, that is just too bad.
Oh, excuse me, Pope Zarn has overruled the Catholic Church of St. Peter.:rolleyes:

The Church is making itself relevent today to appeal to people, so that they can see the light, yet it still has the moral high ground. If anything, it it more moral now than it ever has been before. Thanks to religious freedoms in the 'West,' the Roman Catholic Church has basically become what it should have been years ago.

From this most shameful font of indifferentism springs that absurd and erroneous proposition, or rather, insanity, which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. This is the most contagious of errors, which prepares the way for that absolute and totally unrestrained liberty of opinions which, for the ruin of Church and State, is spreading everywhere and which certain men, through an excess of impudence, do not fear to put forward as advantageous to religion. Ah, ‘what more disastrous death for souls than the liberty of error,’ said St. Augustine. When all restraints are removed by which men are kept on the narrow path of truth, their nature, which is already inclined to evil, propels them to ruin. Then truly "the bottomless pit" is open from which John saw smoke ascending which obscured the sun, and out of which locusts flew forth to devastate the earth. Thence comes transformation of minds, corruption of youths, contempt of sacred things and holy laws -- in other words, a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty.
--Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos


You can call as many people heretics as much as you want, but the reality is that you don't control who is and is not a heretic. If you want to do that, then form your own church, as it seems obvious you are not happy with His Holiness.
People control whether they themselves are heretics. Nobody else.
 
Inqvisitor said:
People control whether they themselves are heretics. Nobody else.

And who judges them? You're calling people heretics left and right.
 
ironduck said:
And who judges them? You're calling people heretics left and right.
God shall judge them, but the Roman Pontiff is the voice of St. Peter whose role is to guard the Sacred Deposit of the Faith against heresies.
 
Inqvisitor said:
Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty.

I wonder.. do you live in the US? Have you read the constitution there? I mean, golly, why don't you move to Iran or something?
 
Inqvisitor said:
God shall judge them, but the Roman Pontiff is the voice of St. Peter whose role is to guard the Sacred Deposit of the Faith against heresies.

Are you the voice of St. Peter? Because you are in fact calling people heretics.
 
ironduck said:
I wonder.. do you live in the US? Have you read the constitution there? I mean, golly, why don't you move to Iran or something?
Have you not heard of the heretical doctrine of Americanism?
 
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