CivGeneral's Catholicism Thread

[GenMarshall]

Also, what was with the priest not facing the crowd?

I have no understanding of what goes on with the Tridentine Mass (Thats the Mass style on which the priest does not face the crowd).

Here is one example on how the priest face in a Tridentine Mass.


Mainly I believe that the priest would be praying at the foot of the alter. But I am not an expert on Tridentine Mass since I pretty much perfer the more modern Mass. Or as Traditional Pre-Vatican II Catholics such as Inqvisitor would call it, "Novus Ordo (Missae)"

 

[Inqvisitor]

Unfortunately for Traditional Catholics and the Society of St. Pius X, The Vatican II has been passed and been approved in 1965 and is now a reality in the Modern Catholic Church. The Church needed reforms in the liturgy as many people around the Globe does not know how to read, let alone speek Latin which led to a whole bunch of very confused Catholics. Thanks to the Vatican II and it's liturgy reforms. It made the mass more enjoyable to hear in English and having the priest facing the crowd performing his duties.

Nice job COMPLETELY ignoring the theological realities once again. Vatican II has been "passed" like a bill in congress? Really, really sad...

The Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy, not a democracy. If you like vernacular liturgy better, you are free to protest outside- they call that Protestantism.

The Mass is not supposed to be "enjoyable" but fulfilling in the most holy sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. And honestly, "ye shall know them by their fruits." Mass attendance has never been lower in history, and people actually have no idea what is going on with the ever-changing chameleon that is the "New Mass."

 

[ironduck]

Yeah, we all know what can happen if people start enjoying themselves..

 

[Inqvisitor]

I thought non-latin masses were introduced with the counter reformation.. did they really wait until 1965 to not speak latin in non-latin speaking countries? That doesn't sound right.

No, you got things really confused. It was at the Council of Trent that Church codified one universal Latin rite for all time- the Mass of the Ages. Often the Latin Mass which dates back from St. Peter is mistakenly referred to as the "Tridentine" Mass, when really all the Council of Trent did was establish the Apostolic Roman Mass as the universal rite, ensuring the Church remained in total unity rather than continue with local innovations that had developed in certain regions. One unified Missal for all time...

If anyone says that the Mass ought to be celebrated in the vernacular tongue only; let him be anathema.
(Council of Trent, Canon 9)​

This is what the counter-reformation said...
Papal Bull Quo Primum issued by Pope Saint Pius V in 1570:

We specifically command each and every patriarch, administrator, and all other persons or whatever ecclesiastical dignity they may be, be they even cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, or possessed of any other rank or pre-eminence, and We order them in virtue of holy obedience to chant or to read the Mass according to the rite and manner and norm herewith laid down by Us and, hereafter, to discontinue and completely discard all other rubrics and rites of other missals, however ancient, which they have customarily followed; and they must not in celebrating Mass presume to introduce any ceremonies or recite any prayers other than those contained in this Missal.

Furthermore, by these presents [this law], in virtue of Our Apostolic authority, We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us. We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid and retain its full force notwithstanding the previous constitutions and decrees of the Holy See, as well as any general or special constitutions or edicts of provincial or synodal councils, and notwithstanding the practice and custom of the aforesaid churches, established by long and immemorial prescription - except, however, if more than two hundred years' standing.
--Pope Saint Pius V, Quo Primum​

Also, what was with the priest not facing the crowd?

In the Roman Mass, the priest faces ad orientam, toward the East, to Jerusalem and the Holy Land where Christ suffered His passion. This is also reflects Catholic theology that the Mass is a SACRIFICE to God, not a meal of men. The priest faces God with this Most Holy Sacrifice, not the people. I believe these images best demonstrate what the Catholic understanding of what happens at the traditional Roman Mass is where the priest serves God, not man.

 

[GenMarshall]

Nice job COMPLETELY ignoring the theological realities once again. Vatican II has been "passed" like a bill in congress? Really, really sad...

Well come up with a bright idea on how to communicate to atheists, agnostics, and non-believers in the forum that are reading these posts, They see theological scripture as meaningless to them and its best to tell them upfront in laymans terms, not by fancy dogmas and scriptures.

The Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy, not a democracy.

If the Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy, then why do we have papal elections everytime a pope dies or resigns ? The Catholic Church is technicly a Theocracy (More specificly a Ecclesiocracy). Monarchy has a direct heir and secsession to the throne. Most certanly the Vatican does not have a order of succession that are the norm of Kings and Queens of Europe and the Emperors and Empresses of Japan. Insted, The Vatican is an elected monarchy in which the pope is elected to serve a life term by the College of Cardinals.

If you like vernacular liturgy better, you are free to protest outside- they call that Protestantism.

Protestantism does not nessicary suit my tastes because (No offense to any of our Protestant Brothers) all they do is preach about fire and brim stone and create a mass that is unorganized with a whole bunch of singing and no reading from the bible as well as a reflection of the message that was read.

Eastern Orthodoxy Christianity is a rare around my area for there are not very many Greek Orthodox Churches in my area. Plus I am not that attracted to Eastern Orthodoxy anyway since I am more drawn to Catholicism for my grandparents are very devout Catholics.

Anglican/Episcopal is one option, but does not have the same feeling and traditions of the Catholic Church.
For all three of the denominations I listed, I do not belong in them because:

1. I believe that the Pope is the vicar representitive of Christ
2. The History of the Church (All mainline Christian Denominations trace their roots back into Catholicism)
3. My heratage, My grandparents were Catholic and I was baptised into the faith (Though I never recived first communion nor confirmation and never made my first confession)
4. In my opinion, I believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Christian church (Note, thats just my opinion so people from other denominations dont take any offense )

The Mass is not supposed to be "enjoyable" but fulfilling in the most holy sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. And honestly, "ye shall know them by their fruits." Mass attendance has never been lower in history, and people actually have no idea what is going on with the ever-changing chameleon that is the "New Mass."

Do you know why Mass attendance has been low? Because the mass has not been enjoyable to the people. With the New Mass and especialy with it being spoken in one's native tounge makes it more easyer for others to know what is going on.

Just this past Monday, I stoped by a local Catholic Church and attended a weekday Mass. And I acutaly understood what was going in the mass. Because it was done in English. Honestly, if it was the old mass and it was spoken in Latin. I would be lost in a latin mass because I dont know a shread of Latin.

 

[Inqvisitor]

Well come up with a bright idea on how to communicate to atheists, agnostics, and non-believers in the forum that are reading these posts, They see theological scripture as meaningless to them and its best to tell them upfront in laymans terms, not by fancy dogmas and scriptures.

I was not talking to them, I was talking to you claiming to be a Catholic. If you are concerned about non-Catholics, then seriously all you are doing is confusing them more if you tell them outright falcities such as that Vatican II "passed" without any understanding of what the Church teaches on such authority.

If the Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy, then why do we have papal elections everytime a pope dies or resigns ? The Catholic Church is technicly a Theocracy (More specificly a Ecclesiocracy). Monarchy has a direct heir and secsession to the throne. Most certanly the Vatican does not have a order of succession that are the norm of Kings and Queens of Europe and the Emperors and Empresses of Japan. Insted, The Vatican is an elected monarchy in which the pope is elected to serve a life term by the College of Cardinals.

The Pope is the King of Rome, and of the Papal States. This Papal Tiara symbolizes this.


The pope's traditional triple-crowned ("beehive") tiara represents
several things:

* The pope's priestly offices and powers: to teach, to rule, and to
sanctify -- as teacher, lawgiver, and judge.

* The pope's authority over the Church Militant, Church Suffering, and
Church Triumphant.

* The pope's threefold sovereign authority: the first crown standing for
the pope's universal episcopate (power of orders); the second, for his
universal jurisdiction (spiritual power); and the third, for his right to
govern the Patrimony of St. Peter and other States of the Church, and his
rights as Vicar of Christ in relation to other sovereigns and states
(temporal power).

Protestantism does not nessicary suit my tastes because (No offense to any of our Protestant Brothers) all they do is preach about fire and brim stone

Um, Protestantism can be anything you make it to be.

and create a mass that is unorganized with a whole bunch of singing and no reading from the bible as well as a reflection of the message that was read.

Sounds like the Novus Ordo to me...

Eastern Orthodoxy Christianity is a rare around my area for there are not very many Greek Orthodox Churches in my area. Plus I am not that attracted to Eastern Orthodoxy anyway since I am more drawn to Catholicism for my grandparents are very devout Catholics.

There are Eastern-rite Catholics also. Many Eastern Christians are in fact afraid of their Church becoming a corrupt liberalized cesspit like the Roman church has under the Novus Ordo.

Do you know why Mass attendance has been low? Because the mass has not been enjoyable to the people. With the New Mass and especialy with it being spoken in one's native tounge makes it more easyer for others to know what is going on.

So, time for more innovations...?

The Mass that worked for St. Peter, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Pius X, and right on down to St. Padre Pio since Apostolic times has been thrown aside for a "New Mass" that needs to be updated to be more enjoyable every few years...?

Just this past Monday, I stoped by a local Catholic Church and attended a weekday Mass. And I acutaly understood what was going in the mass. Because it was done in English. Honestly, if it was the old mass and it was spoken in Latin. I would be lost in a latin mass because I dont know a shread of Latin.

Catechism Class.

 

[Inqvisitor]

The Alter Christus:
There is truly meaning in the ceremonies of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass - the Immemorial Mass of Tradition - the Traditional Latin Mass. Consider below what each action signifies as the priest - the alter Christus - re-enacts an action by or to Our Lord as being an exposition of the Agony, Death and Passion of our Divine Lord from Holy Thursday night until forty days after His resurrection, when He gave the final command to the Apostles to go forth and preach the Gospel to the world.

THE MASS OF THE CATECHUMENS

1. Introibo ad altare Dei

* The priest going to the foot of the altar represents Christ going to Mount Olivet.

2. Judica me, Deus...

* The priest commencing the Holy Mass represents Christ beginning to pray in the Garden.

3. Confiteor Deo...

* The priest saying the Confiteor represents Christ falling down and sweating blood at Mt. Olivet.

4. Oramus Te, Domine, per merita Sanctorum Tuorum

* The priest going up and kissing the altar, after praying Aufer a nobis..., represents Christ being betrayed by Judas with a kiss.

5. Oremus

* The priest going to the Epistle side represents Christ being captured, bound and taken to Annas.

6. The INTROIT

* The priest reading the Introit represents Christ being falsely accused by Annas and blasphemed.

7. Kyrie Eleison

* The priest going to the middle of the altar and saying the Kyrie eleison represents Christ being brought to Caiphas and these three times denied by Peter.

8. Dominus vobiscum

* The priest saying the Dominus vobiscum represents Christ looking at Peter and converting him.

9. The EPISTLE

* The priest reading the Epistle represents Christ being brought to Pilate.

10. Munda cor meum

* The priest saying the Munda cor meum represents Christ being taken to Herod and mocked.

11. The GOSPEL

* The priest reading the Gospel represents Christ being taken to Pilate and again mocked.

THE MASS OF THE FAITHFUL

OFFERTORY and CANON OF THE MASS

12. The OFFERTORY

* The priest uncovering the chalice represents Christ being shamefully exposed.

13. Suscipe and Offerimus...

* The priest offering bread and wine represents Christ being cruelly scourged.

14. In spiritu humilitatis...

* The priest covering the chalice represents Christ being crowned with thorns.

15. Lavabo...

* The priest washing his hands represents Christ being declared innocent by Pilate.

16. Orate Fratres

* The priest saying the Orate Fratres represents Christ being shown by Pilate to the people with the words "Ecce Homo."

17. The SECRET

* The priest praying in a low voice represents Christ being mocked and spit upon.

18. The PREFACE and Sanctus

* The priest saying the Preface and the Sanctus represents Christ being preferred instead of Barrabas and condemned to crucifixion.

19. Communicantes

* The priest making the memento for the living represents Christ carrying the cross to Mount Calvary.

20. CANON Prayers

* The priest continuing to pray in a low voice represents Christ meeting His Mother.

21. Hanc igitur

* The priest blessing the bread and wine represents Christ being nailed to the cross.

22. HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM...

* The priest elevating the host represents Christ being raised on the cross.

23. HIC EST ENIM CALIX SANGUINIS MEI...

* The priest elevating the chalice represents Christ shedding blood from the five wounds.

24. Memento

* The priest praying in a low voice represents Christ seeing His afflicted Mother at the foot of the cross.

25. Nobis quoque peccatoribus

* The priest saying aloud the words Nobis quoque peccatoribus represents Christ praying on the cross for men.

COMMUNION and THANKSGIVING

26. Pater Noster

* The priest saying aloud the the Pater Noster represents Christ saying the seven words on the cross.

27. Fraction of the Host

* The priest breaking and separating the host represents Christ giving up His spirit.

28. Haec commixtio...

* The priest letting a portion of the host fall into the chalice represents His soul going to Limbo.

29. Agnus Dei...

* The priest saying the Agnus Dei represents Christ being acknowledged on the cross as the Son of God by many bystanders.

30. HOLY COMMUNION

* The priest administering Holy Communion represents Christ being laid in the sepulchre with the white linen over the communion railing representing the pure shroud.

31. Cleansing the Chalice

* The priest cleansing the chalice represents Christ being anointed by pure women.

32. Preparing the Chalice

* The priest preparing the chalice again represents Christ rising from the dead.

33. Dominus vobiscum...

* The priest saying the Dominus vobiscum represents Christ appearing to His mother and the disciples.

34. POSTCOMMUNION

* The priest saying the last prayers in the Postcommunion represents Christ teaching for forty days.

35. Dominus vobiscum

* The priest saying the Dominus vobiscum just before the Ite Missa est represents Christ taking leave of His disciples with His final words in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John to "Feed My sheep" and ascending into Heaven.

36. Ite Missa est and FINAL BLESSING

* The priest saying the Ite Missa est blessing represents Christ sending down the Holy Ghost on Pentecost Sunday.

37. LAST GOSPEL

* The priest saying the Last Gospel, which is really the First words of the beloved Disciple Saint John, represents sending the Apostles into all parts of the world to preach the Gospel and preserving His Holy Church for all time.

 

[ironduck]

CivGeneral, over here the protestants actually preach far less fire and brimstone than the catholics do.

 

[GenMarshall]

I was not talking to them, I was talking to you claiming to be a Catholic. If you are concerned about non-Catholics, then seriously all you are doing is confusing them more if you tell them outright falcities such as that Vatican II "passed" without any understanding of what the Church teaches on such authority.

I can tell youre on the hunt for people who clame to be Catholic. I guess the thing in your signature proves a point though "+Poster exposes fraudulent "catholics!" Reply at your own risk!+". I can tell you that I am infact Catholic, mainly just baptised since I have not gotten first communion nor confirmation. But in my faith and heratage, I am Catholic. Though to you in the eyes of the Society of Pope Pius X and other Traditional Catholics, you see us Modern Catholics as Novus Ordoarians and not true Catholic.

The Pope is the King of Rome, and of the Papal States. This Papal Tiara symbolizes this.

So by your logic, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope John Paul II are not popes and that the Throne at the Vatican is empty because they chose a Papal inaguration insted of a Papal Corination? . And what papal state? Italy united from the papal states in the mid 1800s (if my European history is right). There is only one Papal state, The Vatican.

Um, Protestantism can be anything you make it to be.

So by your logic, you lump Mormons and Anglo-Catholics (Anglican/Episcopal) in the same boat? Eventhough they are two separate denominations.

Sounds like the Novus Ordo to me...

Realy, then how come when I went to a Catholic weekday mass (what you call "New Mass") that it was well organised with readings from the Bible, the communion itself, readings from the gospel, and then reflections from the reading. Does not look to chaotic to me.

Catechism Class.

Catechism Class? For me I need Latin Class. The only Catechism Class that I would need is RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) which is a modern Catechism Class in the post-Vatican II world .

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that protestantism actually started because of overwhelming guilt from Catholism.

I guess Catholics can't really preach 'fire and brimstone' to its audience ... more 'purgatory'

 

[El_Machinae]

I'd love to read how Inqvisitor thinks that the Papal Throne can legitimately be reclaimed? Since there are no surviving qualified cardinals to choose who's next.

Basically, the chain has been broken. Just as solidly as after Peter died.

 

[GenMarshall]

CivGeneral, over here the protestants actually preach far less fire and brimstone than the catholics do.

I apologise if I made that kind generalization

 

[El_Machinae]

CivGeneral ... how do the Catholics now who Peter chose to be Pope when he died?

 

[Inqvisitor]

I can tell youre on the hunt for people who clame to be Catholic. I guess the thing in your signature proves a point though "+Poster exposes fraudulent "catholics!" Reply at your own risk!+". I can tell you that I am infact Catholic, mainly just baptised since I have not gotten first communion nor confirmation. But in my faith and heratage, I am Catholic. Though to you in the eyes of the Society of Pope Pius X and other Traditional Catholics, you see us Modern Catholics as Novus Ordoarians and not true Catholic.

Then why did you cop out of the last argument under the claim that "atheists and agnostics don't know theology" or whatever you said? If you are a Catholic, then you would agree we do not need to use "layman's terms" on such matters here, no?

So by your logic, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope John Paul II are not popes and that the Throne at the Vatican is empty because they chose a Papal inaguration insted of a Papal Corination? . And what papal state? Italy united from the papal states in the mid 1800s (if my European history is right). There is only one Papal state, The Vatican.

The Papal States were stolen, but will be restored.

So by your logic, you lump Mormons and Anglo-Catholics (Anglican/Episcopal) in the same boat? Eventhough they are two separate denominations.

Roman Catechism:
Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons. Infidels are outside the Church because they never belonged to, and never knew the Church, and were never made partakers of any of her Sacraments. Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised. Finally, excommunicated persons are not members of the Church, because they have been cut off by her sentence from the number of her children and belong not to her communion until they repent.

Realy, then how come when I went to a Catholic weekday mass (what you call "New Mass") that it was well organised with readings from the Bible, the communion itself, readings from the gospel, and then reflections from the reading. Does not look to chaotic to me.

Local N.O. presbyters introduce their own personal styles and innovations into the New Mass. There are errors in translation, rubrics, order, music, the list goes on and on...

For example, did Christ offer His blood for all or for many?

Catechism Class? For me I need Latin Class. The only Catechism Class that I would need is RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) which is a modern Catechism Class in the post-Vatican II world .

RCIA is a bizarre mix of Paganism and Protestantism.

Catholics do not need to speak Latin to understand what goes on at the Roman Mass. Just as in the Passion of the Christ movie...
Proper catechesis is the answer.

Latin class would certainly be nice though, if you are Roman Catholic....

Jews use Hebrew, Moslems use Arabic, Hindus use Sanskrit...but Catholics are too lazy to learn their sacred language.

 

[classical_hero]

What evidence do Cathlics have that Peter even went to Rome?

 

[warpus]

What evidence do Cathlics have that Peter even went to Rome?

Catholics.. evidence..?

Catholics don't need evidence - all they need is faith.

 

[Inqvisitor]

What evidence do Cathlics have that Peter even went to Rome?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11744a.htm- IV. ACTIVITY AND DEATH IN ROME; BURIAL PLACE

St. Peter is buried in Rome to this day.

 

[GenMarshall]

Then why did you cop out of the last argument under the claim that "atheists and agnostics don't know theology" or whatever you said? If you are a Catholic, then you would agree we do not need to use "layman's terms" on such matters here, no?

Layman's terms is most appropreate in these manners to help people understand. Giving them the whole doctrine and scriptures would eather make them confused or dismiss them as irrelivent. I leared this the hard way when I tried to defend my possition on being pro-life.

Local N.O. presbyters introduce their own personal styles and innovations into the New Mass. There are errors in translation, rubrics, order, music, the list goes on and on...

For example, did Christ offer His blood for all or for many?

Then why is it that when I hear the mass and later go into the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and go under "the day's readings" that what the priest said is exactly what its said word for word in that site?

RCIA is a bizarre mix of Paganism and Protestantism.

How is it a bizarre mix of Paganism and Protestantism? I realy think you should take a closer look at RCIA here

Catholics do not need to speak Latin to understand what goes on at the Roman Mass. Just as in the Passion of the Christ movie...
Proper catechesis is the answer.

I agree that Catholics dont need to speek Latin, but the appropreate Mass would be the Modern Vatican II Mass. I also agree that proper catechiesis is the answer, especialy going through RCIA.

Latin class would certainly be nice though, if you are Roman Catholic....

Jews use Hebrew, Moslems use Arabic, Hindus use Sanskrit...but Catholics are too lazy to learn their sacred language.

Realy, How often do we use Latin? We have bits and pieces of Latin in the English Language. We use parts of it in Science as well as Law. Latin is pretty much a dead language spoken only within the confines of the Vatican.

 

[HighlandWarrior]

i have very many questions about the catholic faith.

Where in the bible does it state a priest cannot marry?

no eating meat on fridays?

1 Timothy 4
The Great Apostasy
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

forbidding to marry is a doctrine of demons according to timothy. Same as commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be recieved with thanksgiving! Yes i understand that it is only on friday but you are still being commanded to abstain.


1 Timothy 3
Qualifications of Overseers
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

if a bishop can marry why can't a priest? makes no sense. please explain with references from the bible.

how does one become a saint in the catholic faith? from what i was taught in school, you have to perform 3 miracles after you die, is that true? if it is true, please give me a reference in the bible i cannot find it.

 

[Inqvisitor]

Layman's terms is most appropreate in these manners to help people understand. Giving them the whole doctrine and scriptures would eather make them confused or dismiss them as irrelivent. I leared this the hard way when I tried to defend my possition on being pro-life.

So you basically you want me to treat you as an atheist in which case the words of Pope St. Pius V, the Council of Trent, and Pope John XXIII mean nothing...?

Then why is it that when I hear the mass and later go into the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and go under "the day's readings" that what the priest said is exactly what its said word for word in that site?

I think the C stands for communist there in "USCCB." That particularly corrupt institution has zero authority.

You did not answer the question. "For all" or "for many?" That is the first test of true New Order shenanigans.

How is it a bizarre mix of Paganism and Protestantism? I realy think you should take a closer look at RCIA here

RCIA places an excessive amount of focus on the "people" and generic religion.

I agree that Catholics dont need to speek Latin, but the appropreate Mass would be the Modern Vatican II Mass. I also agree that proper catechiesis is the answer, especialy going through RCIA.

Nobody knows what goes on at the Vatican II Mess. Not even the pope knows...

Realy, How often do we use Latin? We have bits and pieces of Latin in the English Language. We use parts of it in Science as well as Law. Latin is pretty much a dead language spoken only within the confines of the Vatican.

Hebrew was dead when Jesus spoke it in the synagogue. St. Peter's death in Rome signified the beginning of the Roman Rite, to which Latin is inseparable. Latin is the Catholic sacred language. Why can Jews learn Hebrew today, but Catholics are old-fashioned "fire and brimstone" if they learn the Church's language? Just over forty years ago, all the Catholics in St. Peter's Square chanted roaringly with Pope John XXIII the words of the Pater Noster. Nowadays visiting the Vatican is about photo ops and partying like going to a massive picnic or a rock concert in the square. Nobody knows the prayers, and for all we know they could make up new ones as they go along. The problem here is at the educational level.