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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23 + 1 = 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15 - 2 = 13
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 19
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    I've heard that in Gods and Kings, it is theoretically possible to have zero peacetime City State Influence decay with Greece...wow. They're already a civilization that I prioritize taking out precisely because of their UA. If that is the case, what the heck am I going to do with my gold if I play as Greece in Gods and Kings? First world problems, I guess! :D

    It was a tough choice for me to downvote a civilization that I had not already downvoted and that I had first hand playing knowledge of. Japan's not a horrible civ, but it was the worst civ that fit my criterion. The Zero's been picked on enough as is...I would've liked to see a UB instead of the Zero...perhaps a Factory substitute that doesn't require coal to represent the alternative materials the Japanese were forced to use during the war? I also would've liked to see a Japanese UA that could be used in peacetime, but I'm hard pressed to think of one that would be thematically and historically appropriate for the Japanese.

    Besides, it's quite rare for my units to engage with anything less than full strength, unless I'm capturing a 0 HP city with a weakened melee unit, which is already an auto success. I suppose I might find Bushido more useful if I played with aerial units more often, but I digress.
     
  2. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    Ironically I'm in "the states" and really dislike most stuff about France the only thing i do like is the flavor of the foreign Legion.:lol:
     
  3. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    543
    Aww come on people, don't knock Sweden out before Siam and Byzantium. :( The Nobel Prize deserves better than that.
     
  4. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Siam is quite good, but I agree that Byzantium's continued existence is baffling. Their UA is barely playable on the highest difficulties because founding an early religion is so difficult. The cataphract is fine, but dull. If you ask me, dromons are the only thing interesting about this civ. Sweden, on the other hand, is a unique playing experience with one great UU, one flavorful UU, and a flavorful and pretty good UA.
     
  5. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    543
    Siam is good but Sweden is sooooooooooooo much better. Late game the Nobel Prize is giving out more than a thousand gold's worth of free influence. Father Governs Children can't even hope to compete with that.
     
  6. Monthar

    Monthar Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,998
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 13
    Korea 25
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 19
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    Korea - I still feel this is the best science civ. Sure Babylon produces more GS's and gets the free one with writing, but I'd rather have 4 GS's with Korea in the end while generating 1500-1800 BPT than 6 GS's with Babylon and only generating 750-900 BPT, because I'll get more beakers out of Korea's 4 than Babylon's 6.

    On top of that, with the turtle Ship being the strongest ship of the era and the Hwacha being able to rip through troops better than cannons while still doing decent damage to cities (without abusing the catapult to hwacha upgrades) and no sight penalty, Korea is just awesome to play.

    France - I don't like how the bonus culture cuts out mid game. Sure with G&K it's easier avoid Steam Power for a longer time, but when you add in all the culture multipliers and number of cities, especially if you have a lot of puppets, that's a significant drop in CPT. Besides, I don't like how schizophrenic Napoleon is when the AI controls France.
     
  7. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
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    3,289
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    I should give Sweden a try. Going by this thread they seem to be what we in the UK might call a 'Marmite' Civ.
     
  8. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,449
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 13
    Korea 25
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 11
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 19
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 0

    Sweden unique attributes don't have much synergy. UA favours peaceful game while 2UUs mean war in mid-late game. Hackas are a below average UU, there is nothing really 'great' about them. Caroleons on the other hand are pretty awesome but as a whole Sweden sounds a bit lacking. It is like car having 2 tires of a tractor & to of a bus. Anyway Sweden is still a fun civ to play as they are quite unique but I would love to have their UA or hackas tweaked or changed to make them go well along with each other.
     
  9. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,125
    My favourite aggressive Citadel play is to land an embarked Danish GG, race to the target spot, and drop the Citadel. But I can't do that in the list anymore. :(

    The Musketeer being in since Civ III is fair reason to keep it - players of past games like seeing things represented just because they were in previous games, from the Zulus to game mechanics that they felt were "left out" of vanilla (they weren't any such thing: Civ V isn't Civ IV. But it exemplifies the mindset).

    Ask the average American if they know more about France or Panama. And Japan is a particularly big interest over here, it seems.

    As for the Songhai and Siamese, this is what you get after five incarnations of a 20-year-old game when the designers' main target is players of previous incarnations of the game. Many of whom are historically more literate than the original target audience (in not a few cases because an interest in history was inspired by earlier incarnations of the game, or because of mods that added more obscure civs). The additional civs selected have become increasingly obscure as time goes on, and not because of a lack of higher-profile civs to add.

    And even there there is some pandering to popular expectations: Siam is a well-recognised name in popular culture, from cats and twins to The King and I (which is sufficiently widely-recognised to have featured in an episode of Family Guy, in heavily-modified form), and most people who recognise the name know it as "the old name for Thailand". It is not, however, a name that was ever in use for the Sukothai Kingdom represented in the game - rather it was derived from the Chinese name for Ayutthaya, a later Thai capital that was never part of the Sukothai Kingdom.

    Something similar was done to Khmer city names in Civ IV, which were taken from the modern Western names for specific temples on the Khmer tourist trail (in some cases regardless of whether (a) these were ever genuinely cities rather than temples, or (b) whether two names - such as Yasodhapura and Angkor Thom - actually represented the same city), and has been done with the Maya city names in Civ V (which, unlike Civ IV which used the historic Maya site names, uses the modern names).

    This refers to natural influence decay, which is not very significant in G&K (also, I'm not sure if it applies to trespassing, which gives a bigger hit in G&K than it did in vanilla). Any civ can maintain permanent influence at 30 without natural decay (Patronage policy giving +20 resting influence, plus pledging to protect which gives +10), which makes Siam a powerhouse but only weakens Greece relatively speaking. Add in the plethora of new ways to gain large amounts of influence, and the general tendency for net influence to increase over time by completing quests even with normal rates of influence decay, and all Greece's UA really does is make it marginally more difficult to rig elections/launch coups effectively.

    What possible grounds are there for knocking out Siam, especially at this stage? While it's more fun to work the UA, G&K has even made it possible to use Siam on 'auto' (as above), keeping perma-friendship with everyone and milking the benefits, for those who like that style of play. Certainly neither Sweden nor Siam should fall before Greece, and that's not a weak civ despite the now near-uselessness of the UA.
     
  10. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    unless they put it deep in the city names, they havent let Tokyo be Edo for modernity reasons I guess. Little things like that help with authenticity but it's okay to me. i certainly dont know every historical iteration of these cities, so cultures like Songhai, Huns, and Inca are still unknown to me for such details.
     
  11. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    It's too late now, but their UA is actually extremely synergistic with their UUs, because war is one of the most reliable sources of GPs (great generals and great admirals). The Hackas help to create even more GGs. Everything considered, Sweden is a very well constructed and interesting civ.
     
  12. atahop

    atahop Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    Messages:
    56
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 13
    Korea 25
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 11
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Well the up vote goes to Rome this time, just finished watching a documentary about Roman architecture and it was my first game of civ 5, I enjoyed that game, and that was back when they were not nearly as good or as powerful as they are now.

    The down goes to Byzantium because i am currently in a game with them, and it has turned into a sogfest. they get dull fast. however i am enjoying them in a hot seat game with friends, but i say that that is due to having competent opponents.
     
  13. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,725
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 25
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 11
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Playing a game with Maya at the moment and I found them exceedingly strong in what's basically ICS. The Pyramid is cheap and provides Faith and Science, which means even if you keep cities small, they contribute fairly well to the empire. And they have a cheap early defender. Once you get a religion, you can solve your happiness issues with a self-sustaining avalanche of Pagodas and Mosques.

    Japan, I just don't care about civs that are war only.
     
  14. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,954
    Location:
    Québec
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 25
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 11
    Netherlands 21
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    MP analysis this time :

    Maya : Extra gps early on is very strong. Nice UB/UA--->most versatile mp civ.

    Netherlands : Useless UA. One of the worst civ for mp games.
     
  15. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 11
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    England: Hate the Ocean bias. Longbows are good, the rest is 'meh'.
    Korea: Still nice. :)
     
  16. DeathFace

    DeathFace Male Student No. 7

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Seattle
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 9
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    AI Mongolia is terrible and they don't fit with how I play.

    You can never go wrong with the Ottomans.
     
  17. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    609

    Hmm...that's good to hear that Steam Power can be postponed longer. :D
     
  18. cman2010

    cman2010 King

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    This is way I love korea, they rock and cant be beat in the science department.
     
  19. cman2010

    cman2010 King

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 9
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    siam I love the bonus to maritime cs with siam I always have a huge capitol especially when combined with other policy's, and wonders.

    Aztecs I just dont really care for playing as them they dont fit my play style.
     
  20. cecilbturtle

    cecilbturtle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 9
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 18
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 9
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 14
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Gotta bump the Ethiopians. Love that there is now a true turtling Civ - for me almost always the most fun strategy.

    Marking down the Persians since they are the only Civ remaining with which I haven't beat the CPU. Not sure why exactly, but now on my third try and failing again.
     

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