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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 4 (-2)
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10 (+1)
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Iroquois: Great civ with easy to use and synergistic UA, UB, start bias, and ironless swordsman. Keep 'em alive. GAGA Extrem downvoted them for being not quite as good as the Inca, which might have made sense if the Inca weren't already at 26 and it were a 2 horse race, but there are plenty of other civs left that are worse than both the Iroquois and the Inca (Byzantium, and Mongolia are the obvious ones).

    Byzantium: It's a decent and versatile civ if you get an early religion, but their early game it too dependant on chance and following the same old path (try to get SH, etc.).
     
  2. Lord Kid

    Lord Kid Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 4
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 24
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 8
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Gotta upvote The Inca, there really isn't another civ as effective as them at winning any VC at anytime.

    Iroquois, this is another one of those civs that won't let me work my tiles. I don't like that their UA ends at their cultural borders, and the longhouse is just ok. Mohawks are great, though.
     
  3. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    You know, the tile doesn't have to be unimproved. You can put in a lumber mill, a trade post, or a camp for deers, fur, or truffles.
     
  4. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,412
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Wow, people really piled on Japan last night. Sad to see them go. They certainly aren't the best Civ, maybe they deserve a small buff even post-G&K, but they can be darn tough in the right hands. At least Egypt went before them.

    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23 (-2)
    Byzantium 4
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 24
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9 (+1)
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    The Iroquois deserve a protective upvote. Their abilities and starting bias make them a production powerhouse, which is valuable in any victory condition.

    Babylon got a necessary nerf post-G&K, but I don't understand why that nerf wasn't balanced with an upgrade to its unique ranged unit. Why not make it a unique Composite Bowman so it would stick around?
     
  5. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 2 (-2)
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 25 (+1)
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Dropped the hammer on Byzantium because while their UU is very powerful, you first must HAVE a religion, which means devoting a lot of early resources to it. Problem is that their UU's also come early which means that its likely one must suffer. (If someone has found an effective balance, please share and correct me).

    Greece - just found out that with their ability, the right social policy and religion belief, they will have no decay of city state favor. Combined with 2 good early UU's they are a deadly civ.
     
  6. theguy8882

    theguy8882 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    I have to say that we are doing a good job of making a list. So far i feel we really got rid of the bad ones and kept the good ones, except Egypt, but I digress.

    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 0
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 25
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    I like Siam because some things you'd normally need to do by building buildings or working tiles can be done by being friends/Allies with city states.

    I don't like Byzantium because you shouldn't have to work to make your UA active. To make it even worse the Byzantines don't even get a faith boost.
     
  7. TheMightyNu

    TheMightyNu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Arabia 23 (+1)
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 25
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3 (-2)
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Due to the fact that befriending city states (or at least keeping them neutral) is the best way to handle them in Civ5 makes Mongolia's UA relatively useless. All you get is a big hit to diplo and the benefit isnt large enough to justify. It doesnt even help in wars against other civs (which will be unavoidable due to the diplo hit!). The Keshik and Khan are good, but not enough to give the Mongols a legitimate overall strategy.

    I find Arabia to be the best civ for a multitude of reasons. First of all, the Bazaar doubles luxuries, which means you always have an extra to trade; this means you can be friendly with everyone AND your treasury and gpt will be through the roof. The most important reason why Arabia is so good, imo is the desert start bias. It allows you to build the Petra and consistently get massive food and production in the capital. I can regularly get 40-60 pop, even when not in an OCC[/QUOTE]
     
  8. Leviat

    Leviat Addict

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    US
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Carthage 22
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 25
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    To switch things up, I'll throw my upvote behind France today. The UA makes them a great starter, as they earn social policies very quickly in the early game. Musketeer's don't have any carry-over bonuses, but they are significantly more powerful than normal musketman; if you hadn't been able to conquer any neighbor with swordsman and catapults, you should be able to with musketeers and trebuchets/cannons. You'll be a seasoned conqueror at this point, and the foreign legion's +20% foreign land bonus allows another generation of domination.
    They're my favorite civ for a "cultural domination" strategy.

    Carthage: Very difficult to minus any civ at this point, but I'll ding Carthage today. Free harbors are nice, but I have found the mountain movement more gimmicky than helpful. And I may be underrating the Quinquereme, but I dont generally need a powerful navy that early in the game. And the African Forest Elephant is good, but not excellent in the way that a keshik or horse archer are.

    Still, it's tough to minus any of these...
     
  9. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Carthage 22
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 26
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    It's funny Greece is always becoming better with whatever Civ expands into. With religion, it's possible to have perma allies without influence loss provided you spread your religion + Patronage opener. Coupled with his excellent UUs for early conquer/defense war games, and he is probably my go-to guy for Deity now, if I ever have the chance to try Deity again.

    Ottoman - Probably the least useful among the civs left for a versatile/interesting civ to use. Janissary is beyond awesome sauce but that's about it. I won't be pillaging a lot with a lancer nor do I ever play an islands map to totally utilize the UA.
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    3,562
    I agree with everything you said.
     
  11. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Carthage 22
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 26
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3
    Netherlands 21
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Netherlands surprised me by being so high. Ive tried numerous times to get a Polder start and the game just likes to say no. 10+ starts on standard settings and no marshes. And 3 games on heavy water settings and no marshes for me.

    Babylon is always my go to on Deity. bow rushes and quick science is fun.
     
  12. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    the only Civ i was sad that went so early was Spain. But I get why, i just like them more than most.
     
  13. Elgalad

    Elgalad Bully!

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Carthage 22
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 27
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3
    Netherlands 21
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 17

    Today, just going to vote on who I like best and least (from what's left) to play Against as AIs.

    Not sure why, but I always have an easy time getting along with Greece. Alexander has backstabbed me once or twice, but he's never really been stupid and has mostly been loyal after we've established a good relationship. I can also seem to get him to readily attack third parties pretty easily, which is a Big Plus. :mischief:

    Ramkhamhaeng is far less reliable, in my experience. In my current game, he asked me for help after he was attacked by Attila, so I did, and fought by his side until Attila begged for mercy. I also sold Ram a bunch of cheap resources and luxuries during the war, and we'd had open borders and friendship treaties since day one.. We were totally friendly, green all across the board, his overall score close to mine, nothing really about me that he envied, or so I thought.. War with the Huns ends, and it isn't even 10 turns later, he sends all his troops to my door and backstabs me. By Himself. Which was Really Really stupid. All he had left were a few warriors and archers against my beefed up veteran swordsmen and crossbows, which he Knew I had plenty of. I cut through them in about 2 turns flat and went on to take over half of his 'empire' without even breathing heavy. Now he attacked me first, he's on the ropes, he's got nothing left to fight for, and he Still won't sue for peace! :mad: Anyways, I've never liked his lispy voice or silly hat anyways so he's well earned my hate for today.


    -Elgalad
     
  14. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    haha, ive had denouncements from Greece on turn 4. we are almost never friends. he's usually the most psychotic one i meet in any game.
     
  15. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    Possibly because deuterium doesn't come as marshes?
     
  16. Haphaz

    Haphaz Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    London, UK
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Carthage 22
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 27
    Inca 27
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27 + 1 = 28
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 3 - 2 = 1
    Netherlands 21
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 17

    Korea has a lot of possibilities and is very good fun on OCC. Mongolia is too one dimensional. Their scenario is fun, but that's about it.
     
  17. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    haha, i mean heavy rainfall, hot conditions, flat terrains, not ocean settings. although high sea levels never seem to do it either.
     
  18. Monthar

    Monthar Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,992
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    Instead of marshes try going for floodplains with the Dutch. Not only will it be faster to get the workers in and started once you have polders, but you can also make them farms until you unlock polders without taking away the ability to build the polders. Thus the Sandstorm map would be perfect, especially since Sandstorm can be set to pangaea, continents, islands, so you can have your polders and still make good use of the Sea Beggars.
     
  19. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    ah, hadnt thought about flood plains. i thought it was marshes only. thanks, monthar. now that i think about it, there might have been some flood plains in those games i was loading.
     
  20. Elgalad

    Elgalad Bully!

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
    Maybe it's a play style thing?

    I tend to keep a strong military (even when I'm in builder mode) that's plenty visible to my neighbors, though I rarely threaten them directly by parking them right on the borders. It usually seems to keep the 'warmongering' type civs fairly friendly but tick off the peaceful ones over time who don't like how rapidly I expand during the early game, especially in their direction.

    Or maybe it's just a trick of the randomizer, that makes Greece so friendly to me. :)


    -Elgalad
     

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