[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

[Hawke9]

In what gamemode would lifetime and renown fit in? Some kind of combat overhaul mode which changes how you value your units?

 

[AntSou]

In what gamemode would lifetime and renown fit in? Some kind of combat overhaul mode which changes how you value your units?

It would help if we could even figure out what they do.

The most likely explanation is that renown adds combat benefits, but that also sounds dull and already covered by experience.

Lifetime may perhaps work somewhat like old forests. Units which you built in previous eras which you choose not to upgrade provide culture and tourism?

I can't really think of anything that really excites me. I think it's odd that picture only appeared on a Chinese site. Maybe whoever was in charge of marketing there revealed that by accident. Could be it never ends up in the game.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

One more thing came to my mind as it comes to secret societies.
They can go for Crusader's King Solution and make it a part of the religion game.
How will it work in Civ? You can establish and develop a secret society inside the existing religion. More point you grain (via in-game quests or faith/gold/diplomatic favor invested) you can unlock your secret society's abilities (just like religion Beliefs). You could use those abilities to grain various benefits and convert followers of the religion into your secret society members. At a certain point, you would be able to exposure your secret society. Your Secret Society becomes a new religion and all members of the secret society become followers of your new religion. The more secret society members you have the more you are vulnerable to denouncement.
That would help to improve religious victory and add a new additional layer of religion game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

How will it work in Civ? You can establish and develop a secret society inside the existing religion. More point you grain (via in-game quests or faith/gold/diplomatic favor invested) you can unlock your secret society's abilities (just like religion Beliefs). You could use those abilities to grain various benefits and convert followers of the religion into your secret society members. At a certain point, you would be able to exposure your secret society. Your Secret Society becomes a new religion and all members of the secret society become followers of your new religion. The more secret society members you have the more you are vulnerable to denouncement.
That would help to improve religious victory and add a new additional layer of religion game.

As in a religion you did not found, but were converted too? I hope that's the case.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

One more thing came to my mind as it comes to secret societies.
They can go for Crusader's King Solution and make it a part of the religion game.
How will it work in Civ? You can establish and develop a secret society inside the existing religion. More point you grain (via in-game quests or faith/gold/diplomatic favor invested) you can unlock your secret society's abilities (just like religion Beliefs). You could use those abilities to grain various benefits and convert followers of the religion into your secret society members. At a certain point, you would be able to exposure your secret society. Your Secret Society becomes a new religion and all members of the secret society become followers of your new religion. The more secret society members you have the more you are vulnerable to denouncement.
That would help to improve religious victory and add a new additional layer of religion game.

You just gave me an idea.

What if, with Secret Societies, when you found a religion, you get to choose a third tenet, a Secret Society tenet? Like you found your Religious Unity-Gurdwara religion in your holy city of Cuzco, and you get to tie the Freemasons to it?

It's a very clumsy idea, I'll give you that, but I needed to expose it.

 

[tedhebert]

What I'd love to see added to the religion game is the creation of a military engineer type of religious unit that would allow you to build some kind of building outside of your territory, either in enemy or neutral ground, but where your religion has already taken firm hold. That building would allow either to transport any religious
unit from your cities to that building (probably a little to gamey), or would allow you to faith/gold buy religious units directly from it. It would help relieve the tediousness of RV when playing large maps. Not being very knowledgeable in world theology, especially outside Christianity, I can't think of a ready real life example of what that building could be that is not already in the game, but I think of it as a religious recruitment building.

Anyone has any opinions on this ? EDIT: Could this even tie into Secret Societies in any forms ?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

What I'd love to see added to the religion game is the creation of a military engineer type of religious unit that would allow you to build some kind of building outside of your territory, either in enemy or neutral ground, but where your religion has already taken firm hold. That building would allow either to transport any religious
unit from your cities to that building (probably a little to gamey), or would allow you to faith/gold buy religious units directly from it. It would help relieve the tediousness of RV when playing large maps. Not being very knowledgeable in world theology, especially outside Christianity, I can't think of a ready real life example of what that building could be that is not already in the game, but I think of it as a religious recruitment building.

Anyone has any opinions on this ?

it could be a mission

 

[tedhebert]

it could be a mission

Yeah, but... the mission is already a UB for Spain

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Yeah, but... the mission is already a UB for Spain

oh true. I’m not sure then, lol

 

[Killer Rabbit]

What I'd love to see added to the religion game is the creation of a military engineer type of religious unit that would allow you to build some kind of building outside of your territory, either in enemy or neutral ground, but where your religion has already taken firm hold. That building would allow either to transport any religious
unit from your cities to that building (probably a little to gamey), or would allow you to faith/gold buy religious units directly from it. It would help relieve the tediousness of RV when playing large maps. Not being very knowledgeable in world theology, especially outside Christianity, I can't think of a ready real life example of what that building could be that is not already in the game, but I think of it as a religious recruitment building.

Anyone has any opinions on this ? EDIT: Could this even tie into Secret Societies in any forms ?

I would love this and I think it would alleviate a lot of the tedium of religious victory in the late game. I enjoy religion early on and love the beliefs, but getting those damn apostles across the map just becomes so tiring after a while.

Honestly if you could just use holy sites from cities of Civs that you've converted to your religion to buy units, that would make a huge difference. It's a little gamey, but it would make it more fun for sure.

 

[UWHabs]

Civ is very unrealistic. The concepts are meant to be abstractions of history, not realistic. But the game is super fun because the game allows you to pretend you are building an empire, fight wars, research techs, build wonders, etc...

Yeah, I mean, America killing some deer to finish building the Pyramids to steal it away from China obviously is crazy far from realistic, but it does at least sort of pretend at an alternate history. I always look at it like "okay, what if America was founded back in 4000BC, and started next to this vast desert, how would they attack things?"

Stuff like GDR, at least that's the future era, so for all we know, it might come some days. And if not, it's the future and you hardly ever reach there, so I don't really care much. Apocalypse mode is almost a step too far for me, and at least it's wholly optional, I look at it a little like a sandbox mode. Secret societies I have no idea what it will be. Maybe it will simply be like corporations that we're all asking for, but the corporations are controlled by the Illuminati/Masons/etc... If it's like that, I'll probably try it out and hopefully will enjoy it. If it ends up being like some secondary form of religious combat, or something way over the top like you being able to build a super-spy to fully convert a city to your empire, might be a little too over the top for me.

I do like that the game does take some historical concepts. Between Civ and Risk, I can name more wonders of the world than many places, recognize many places, and know more geography and history than others. It's kind of fun being in a museum and seeing a civ listed and in my head going, "hey, I've heard about them!" And it's best when it forces you to dig a little deeper into history - for example, taking another look at who Tamar actually was, or learn about the Scythians. That's the historical aspects of the game that have always interested me most, and that's really what i hope they continue to develop.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah, but... the mission is already a UB for Spain

Just replace that with a bullfighting arena and you can build missions for anyone.

Seriously speaking what about the name Outreach Center? It could be used as points for the Aid Request competitions as well.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just replace that with a bullfighting arena and you can build missions for anyone.

Seriously speaking what about the name Outreach Center? It could be used as points for the Aid Request competitions as well.

The problem with a 'religious spread' structure is that most religions have no specific Proselytizing Tenet. In fact, of the major religions only Islam and certain types of Christianity do, and historically the 'Second Temple" Judaism did some 'missionary work'. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, to name modern major religions, have no specific call to spread the religion.

That's going to make it difficult to come up with a 'building' that represents Religion Spread or specific influence for everybody. There's a reason that the Mission - as in, a home for Missionaries - is specific to the notoriously Proselytizing Spanish Catholicism. In contrast, Buddhist monasteries which were established all over east and southeast Asia, did not sponsor any amount of 'missionary' work.

There are already Religious Beliefs that 'encourage' the spread of your religion, either through distance or Printing, and that's probably a better model, along with the Missionary Unit, to spread a religion.

As mentioned above, the Monastery was probably, in various forms, the most 'universal' religious structure built in all areas, both within and without a religiously-influenced area. A better change to the game, I think, would be to make the Monastery buildable in one of several forms by anyone with a Religion, possibly based on a set of Tenets/Beliefs from which you could select.
Possibilities might include:
1. Production Monasteries like the Benedictines or Franciscans
2. Religious strengthening Monasteries like the Eastern Orthodox Hermitages
3. Proselytizing Monasteries of which the Spanish Mission would be one,
4. Military Monasteries like the Crusading Orders: Templars, Teutonic Knights, Hospitalers, which all based themselves on very Monastic lifestyles, with the very notable addition of edged weapons and a Combat Mission
5. "Specialized" Monasteries with peculiar influences, like the Hasashim Assassins or Shaolin Buddhist Martial Artists.

Note that all of these could be established either within or without your borders, and without stretching their historical influence much at all, they could act as 'Bombs' to expand your borders in-game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The problem with a 'religious spread' structure is that most religions have no specific Proselytizing Tenet. In fact, of the major religions only Islam and certain types of Christianity do, and historically the 'Second Temple" Judaism did some 'missionary work'. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, to name modern major religions, have no specific call to spread the religion.

That's going to make it difficult to come up with a 'building' that represents Religion Spread or specific influence for everybody. There's a reason that the Mission - as in, a home for Missionaries - is specific to the notoriously Proselytizing Spanish Catholicism. In contrast, Buddhist monasteries which were established all over east and southeast Asia, did not sponsor any amount of 'missionary' work.

There are already Religious Beliefs that 'encourage' the spread of your religion, either through distance or Printing, and that's probably a better model, along with the Missionary Unit, to spread a religion.

I don't believe it will happen. I was just pointing out the name of a hypothetical building option since the mission is already taken by Spain.

 

[AntSou]

You just gave me an idea.

What if, with Secret Societies, when you found a religion, you get to choose a third tenet, a Secret Society tenet? Like you found your Religious Unity-Gurdwara religion in your holy city of Cuzco, and you get to tie the Freemasons to it?

It's a very clumsy idea, I'll give you that, but I needed to expose it.

I think it would be a bit underwhelming if the new mode was just a new type/set of modifiers for Religions.

 

[Socrates-]

I think it would be a bit underwhelming if the new mode was just a new type/set of modifiers for Religions.

Can relate to this, but do expect Secret Societies to be something along the line of an alteration of either the religious system or the World Congress.

I don’t think the new game modes will be completely new mechanics build from the ground up but rather current systems in a new flavor or expanded. Mainly because they’re described as ‘toppings’ to your gaming experience when first announced.

Might seem a bit lame, but I think it’s acceptable & nonetheless worth looking forward too

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it would be a bit underwhelming if the new mode was just a new type/set of modifiers for Religions.

I have a feeling that might be the bulk of it, considering it's being released with Ethiopia.
Sure the Maya have no abilities tied to the Apocalypse mode but they kind of announced it as "Mayan Apocalypse Mode."
Of course I'd be looking forward to having secret religious societies, possibly starting a new religion in the process.

 

[AntSou]

Can relate to this, but do expect Secret Societies to be something along the line of an alteration of either the religious system or the World Congress.

I don’t think the new game modes will be completely new mechanics build from the ground up but rather current systems in a new flavor or expanded. Mainly because they’re described as ‘toppings’ to your gaming experience when first announced.

Might seem a bit lame, but I think it’s acceptable & nonetheless worth looking forward too

I think they've already said they are not adding new mechanics. Or at least implied.

In any case they can just copy the Religion or Espionage system/mechanics to create Secret Societies.

What I meant was that, I don't want Secret Societies to be just another type of Religious modifier, like "Founder", "Follower", "Worship" and "Enhancer". So that instead of four types of beliefs, you get a fifth. That's what I don't want it to be.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

What are we thinking about the reveal schedule? Do we think they will reveal what civs are in the third DLC pack around the time Ethiopia is released this month? Or do we think we won't get any details until August or early September?

I am a bit surprised Ethiopia hasn't been completely revealed yet. DLC pack 2 should be coming out soon. And although they didn't reveal Maya/GC until less than a week before the release of DLC pack 1, I don't think that's necessarily the best promotion strategy. I certainly didn't think it was wise to forgo a preorder period for NFP.

 

[Revanchist]

What are we thinking about the reveal schedule? Do we think they will reveal what civs are in the third DLC pack around the time Ethiopia is released this month? Or do we think we won't get any details until August or early September?

I am a bit surprised Ethiopia hasn't been completely revealed yet. DLC pack 2 should be coming out soon. And although they didn't reveal Maya/GC until less than a week before the release of DLC pack 1, I don't think that's necessarily the best promotion strategy. I certainly didn't think it was wise to forgo a preorder period for NFP.

Who knows? This is Firaxis, who didn't tell us about the last update until the month was nearly over. They are notoriously bad at communication from what I have seen, but if you have some insight by all means go ahead. I have heard speculation that the update will be released near the 20th like the Maya and Colombia. I always hope that they surprise me with an early release date or more information, but I tend to think of the possible and not the probable.