[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

[Galvatron]

The info is coming on July 13. It's pretty clear.

Wait, are you ironically writing like I just said they should have written, or is it just a coincidence?

There's no skimping on anything. It's a perfectly valid, normal sentence of the variety that we write and speak in English every day. I really don't understand how we're having this discussion for a second time. Do they not teach basic English in school anymore? Has the Internet truly ruined everyone's ability to read commas? I just don't get it. Seriously, could somebody explain to me why this sentence is bad in any way whatsoever?

Another fellow defending grammar that he doesn't dream of writing. If you want to get your point across, why are you sticking to short, punctuated sentences that have a clear meaning? Why not illustrate the clarity of long, multipoint sentences instead of resorting to high legibility text?

I might point out that irony that I myself use a lot more commas than either of you do, at least in these posts.

Seriously, could somebody explain to me why this sentence is bad in any way whatsoever?

I already did. Multiple points of data. Multiple articles the statement can be referring to. Even if you insist it's grammatically good, which it's not, it's terrible copy.

I'll point out is this weren't a friendly discussion I might have been tempted to write that last part in one sentence.

Has the Internet truly ruined everyone's ability to read commas?

That ability never existed, actually. Over the past couple of years I've realised I've taken for granted literacy as a skill. I assumed that 90% literacy means 90% of people can all read. That's not the case, in fact; rather: literacy is a gradient, and many people, if not most, possess a lower level of literacy than you might expect

Anyways this is the last I'll comment on it, I don't want to clog up the thread with stuff. I just wanted to know when the stuff was coming.

I should mention that what I thought to be the case from having read their tweet was that the UPDATE was coming on the 13th; the only reason I checked to see if that was true or not is because I thought the grammar looked like it might have intended to say the other thing.

Call me a small brain if you will, but he who brains last brains the hardest.

 

[Revanchist]

I thought the needless speculation over a sentence was being dropped. I know this is CivFanatics, but even this is a bit eccentric

 

[SammyKhalifa]

man is there anything more compelling than a three page argument about punctuation

 

[AntSou]

I thought the needless speculation over a sentence was being dropped. I know this is CivFanatics, but even this is a bit eccentric

man is there anything more compelling than a three page argument about punctuation

Both those phrases lack a period.

Newbs.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Both those phrases lack a period.

Newbs.

im boycotting

 

[Revanchist]

Before leif comes here and tells everyone to get back on topic, does anyone think that Asia will be the next ‘scene’ after Africa? If they are following trends, I don’t expect any more South American or African civs when the pass is all said and done

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Before leif comes here and tells everyone to get back on topic, does anyone think that Asia will be the next ‘scene’ after Africa? If they are following trends, I don’t expect any more South American or African civs when the pass is all said and done

I could possibly see something from North Africa, as it's culturally different from Sub-Sahara Africa.
That being said I expect to see multiple 'scenes' from Asia: one from the Middle East, which could include North Africa/Mediterranean, and another one focusing around South East/East Asia.
But I think that's more in line with the other thread about possible new civilizations.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Before leif comes here and tells everyone to get back on topic, does anyone think that Asia will be the next ‘scene’ after Africa? If they are following trends, I don’t expect any more South American or African civs when the pass is all said and done

Not necessarily regions of the world, but I kind of wonder what the themes of the different releases will be mechanics-wise. Part of my thinks religion will be out because we just did that. It could be, though, that that mini-patch was setting up something for Ethiopia.

 

[acluewithout]

I see the next DLC and perhaps next update as pretty much make or break for Civ VI NFP for me.

I’ve really liked the new content and rebalancing we’ve had over the past couple of months. And I’m onboard with the whole season pass model. But let’s be honest. So far, NFP seems focused on adding and tweaking peripheral elements of the game, whereas what the game really needs is a chunk of content in the mid to late game (IMO).

I played a couple of new games over the weekend, and can confirm the early game is tighter than ever. I had one game with a nasty coastal start, Shaka to my south, and a distinct lack of iron. I had some really tough choices about techs and civics, which Governors, how to deal with no ideal strategics, balancing war and development, and war v diplomacy. I was really sweating and it was completely awesome.

And then it’s turn 150, and the game just drops off. It’s not because of snowballing. It’s because the stakes just don’t matter any more. The AI isn’t pushing for victory; I’ve bought all the Governors I need; Governments don’t really upgrade much past T2; Buildings are largely all the same because of flat yields; I’m Swimming in gold but there’s nothing really key to spend it on; Loyalty, Amenities, Happiness and Maintenance are irrelevant.

There’s just not much in the late game, or at least not much that matters. Up until Feudalism and your T2 Government, there are all these little break points where the game really does just go in different directions. But these break points just don’t seem to keep coming past the Renaissance.

At the moment, the best parts of the end game are probably Industrial Zones / Infrastructure and Power. You can throw in Shipyards and maybe Frigates too actually. It is really fun putting together your high tech industrial City Zero-One and hooking everything to your coal chugging power grid. But it’s basically just for memes, because there’s nothing really to spend all the production on, you don’t need all the housing because high pop cities don’t do much, and all power really does is slap on my flat yields on your flat yield buildings and make Maori and Indonesia cry as you their sink all heir coastal cities.

I haven’t really played Civ V, but I get that it handled the end game better with more concrete stuff and new challenges directed at the late game. That’s what Civ VI needs. But so far, NFP seems a far cry from that. Just more peripheral stuff that, while genuinely very cool and appreciated, just isn’t getting at what I feel the game is missing.

There’s also a bunch of smaller little tweaks and expansions I think the game is crying out for, like more skins for barbs, more units generally, or the option to send spies as ambassadors. I think there’s a good chance a lot of that stuff will get addressed - eg Nihang, which gives us with the Monk a second “unique unit” you can earn via play. But bigger stuff seems unlikely, unless it gets added as a Game Mode or as part of one of the free updates.

FXS has given some mixed signals. Post GS and Pre NFP, it looked like we would get some more chunk in the mid to late game, and certainly the game really seemed built for that what with the extended Future Era slapped on in GS but otherwise left pretty empty. Then NFP got announced, and it sounded like FXS were basically “done” with the game and just doing a victory lap with a few new wacky game modes. Now there is a bit of twitter chatter suggesting there might be some more needed crunch, but frankly who knows.

If the next DLC is a Civ, another wacky game mode that I never use, a bridge district and two new variations on the Food Market and Shopping Mall, then honestly I think I’m going to give up and just stick with EUIV for next year. If instead it’s aCiv, a game mode that prompts some changes to Religious Units and or Spies, a District with some cool mechanics, a few new buildings that matter and rebalancing of buildings and Rationalism type cards generally, then Civ will be going in the right direction and maybe I’ll send FXS another Christmas card this year.

Okay. I’ll send them a Christmas Card either way. They seem like cool guys. The Kevin, Kat and Anton videos are hilarious.

But at the moment, it seems like I’m wanting a lot more from Civ than FXS are giving. And I don’t think I’m the only one that feels that way.

 

[Revanchist]

My problem is that the apocalypse mode didn’t feel like something you would ‘sprinkle’ on, which is what my problem is in the first place. Apocalypse greatly alters how you play the game, and, while that is fine for novelty, if these game modes are just going to be one off scenarios then I am not interested. I want something that genuinely deepens gameplay and adds to the experience - without altering it.

Another problem I will reiterate is the slog after early game to the end game. The uncanny valley in between burns me out like no other, and I feel that I can only get through there with challenging civs like Khmer or Georgia. I like how the end game works with increasing emergencies and climate change, but how you get there is brutal and soul crushingly boring, and, if that wasn’t enough, the AI are practically lobotomized leaving no challenge whatsoever.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My problem is that the apocalypse mode didn’t feel like something you would ‘sprinkle’ on, which is what my problem is in the first place. Apocalypse greatly alters how you play the game, and, while that is fine for novelty, if these game modes are just going to be one off scenarios then I am not interested. I want something that genuinely deepens gameplay and adds to the experience - without altering it.

I agree with this. I don't hate the Apocalypse mode, but it's not a mode that I want to turn on and play with all the time.
I'm hoping that Secret Societies, and others, will be that mode that I can just keep on for every game like the expansion mechanics.

 

[acluewithout]

I think Apocalypse Mode got close to something I’d have on in more games. The problem is really that’s it’s so two dimensional. It’s not really Apocalypse Mode, more just “death by comet” mode. Beyond that, and the very flat soothsayer unit, it’s really not much more than playing max disaster level and primeval map.

If FXS expanded then soothsayer mechanics a bit, and had a bit more variety with the end game disasters (eg maybe riots, zombies, rogue AI), I think it would have more replay-ability. Although, given how fantastic it is, it’s probably never going to be something I play every game.

I'm hoping that Secret Societies, and others, will be that mode that I can just keep on for every game like the expansion mechanics.

I guess the nun of what I’m saying is that I want a Third Expansion, not an Alt Skin Pack. I’m not clear if NFP will basically be the equivalent of a Third Expansion or not.

It defiantly could be. Between more historical game modes and some targetted new free content, FXS could get the game to a play where you’re basically playing a third Expansion if you leave in the right game modes and have all the DLC. Or, they could even maybe deliver the core additional mechanics via free updates, with the game modes truly just being a buffet of ways to modify the game.

Or, it could all be a bust, and it’s just wacky fun time game modes, and I’m left hoping for a proper expansion in 2021/2022 that of course might not even happen.

I just don’t get FXS when they said at NFP release that they thought Civ VI was “done” mechanically. Ice-cream sprinkles are fine, buts it’s not what the game needs. It really still needs one more good scoop of ice-cream before anyone starts slathering I’m crushed almonds, chocolate sauce and marshmallows.

 

[Revanchist]

I think the big problem is that Firaxis thinks they’re serving us a triple scoop cone with fudge and peanuts when we really just see a half eaten vanilla scoop in a cup with cheap toppings. Yes, they COULD give me another scoop, but they should be giving me another ice cream cone instead

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I just don’t get FXS when they said at NFP release that they thought Civ VI was “done” mechanically. Ice-cream sprinkles are fine, buts it’s not what the game needs. It really still needs one more good scoop of ice-cream before anyone starts slathering I’m crushed almonds, chocolate sauce and marshmallows.

Yeah I'm really quite disappointed if they think after the half-expansion that was R&F and the controversial mechanics added in GS, that the game is "done" mechanically. I recognize that ideologies already kind of exist in VI, and migration might overcomplicate the game, and pandemics seem a bit tasteless in the current political climate, but at the very least I think there was a huge mid-game gap where the devs could have added some additional economic elements: corporations, colonies/vassal/puppet states, etc. Given that VI already tried to incorporate most of the mechanics from V in the base game, I think if they wanted a nostalgia baity expack they should assemble some of the favorite mechanics from IV and make VI kind of an uber-mashup of IV and V mechanics plus the novel GS mechanics.

I'm still hoping that there's a small chance NFP is just intended to stall while they polish a final expansion pack. Pretty miniscule odds I know, but if GS is supposed to represent the full extent of VI, it really didn't reach much further than V mechanically.

 

[sonicmyst]

While the GS added some late-games things like rock bands, extended SV condition, GDR for domination, I feel there is something else that late-game needs: coalitions and agenda based on coalitions. Maybe all civs with same 3rd/4th tier government should form a mega-alliance with a unified agenda based on that alliance.

From there we can have world wars. Ideological wars. Economic wars. Name it, and we have an exciting late game (as long as the AI can pull it off)

 

[Deggial]

... I'm still hoping that there's a small chance NFP is just intended to stall while they polish a final expansion pack. Pretty miniscule odds I know, but if GS is supposed to represent the full extent of VI, it really didn't reach much further than V mechanically.

Requests for an open communication about Firaxis future plans were verbalized multiple times.
Now they did communicate: There won’t be a future expansion with major new game mechanics.
Many of us (including myself) may not like this statement, but it has to be taken as Firaxis stance nevertheless.

And as much as I too would like plaques, corporations and a vassals mechanic, I have to face the fact that - should we not get any of these mechanics as modes in the NFP, we will not get them at all.

What is the point in requesting an open communication, if we then don’t take serious, what was said?
If we go into full denial mode and - despite clear and open statements - still insist on unfounded hopes?

 

[Galvatron]

And as much as I too would like plaques...

Ah, yes, the special de-motivational plaque to break what's left of your spirit. For you see, you're here... forever.

 

[acluewithout]

There won’t be a future expansion with major new game mechanics. Many of us (including myself) may not like this statement, but it has to be taken as Firaxis stance nevertheless.

Yeah. I think that’s basically the position.

There is maybe some room in this position. It might be some of the mechanics people want (myself included) might come via game modes (eg Anton has said there are some game modes people might just leave on) and or incrementally through free updates. Or maybe there will be something after NFP. But overall, the message seems to be “corporations, vassals, ideologies and big stuff like that - yeah, not happening”.

But I also think it’s okay to express displeasure at that position, even if at some point people have to just move on.

I think this tinkering around the edges stuff is really wrongheaded. The game needs a more solid end game, like what BNW brought to Civ V. But if it’s not happening then it’s not happening. What a pity.

 

[AvianBritish]

Before leif comes here and tells everyone to get back on topic, does anyone think that Asia will be the next ‘scene’ after Africa? If they are following trends, I don’t expect any more South American or African civs when the pass is all said and done

I think the next DLC for September will be Europe personally as the only other DLC with two brand new civs. I think Asia will be January with a new Civ and Alt leader.

 

[acluewithout]

For what it’s worth, I went back to the announcement video about game modes.

Anton said something like: We’re also focusing on creating new game systems that add to the game in ways that change it up and give it some new flavour. ... We think of these systems as delicious toppings for your Civilization ice cream cone. Some of these modes will extend existing gameplay, like our Apocalypse Mode. Other modes will add a whole bunch of new things to consider ... new units to build, new buildings to construct and new tile improvements to place out on the map. And these will totally change the way that you play the game, as well as the things that you can do to your opponents.

Reading that cold, and adding to that other comments about there being some game modes you’d just leave on for every game, I think that suggests game modes at least might have enough room for things like Corporations or Ideological Pressure.

FXS have also been a little unclear about the scope of base game content. The original announcement didn’t suggest we’d get much - two new districts, four new buildings, and some city states, resources and great people. But in the July video it seemed like it could be more than that, including even further game modes beyond the 6 DLC game modes.

So, my expectation is that anyone wanting some serious end game content is very likely to be very disappointed; but it’s possible there may be more solid content coming than FXS have suggested so far. Hence why I’m curious about the next announcement- because after that, we’ll be 25% into whatever we’re getting, so presumably will have a much better idea of whether NFP is just fluff or has some real needed content.

Edit: the June Update video also had Anton saying that each Community Update will have a “new feature”. However, Kat then says this feature could be “a new scenario, a free game mode or a way to customise your set up”. I don’t know if that means that Community Updates might not provide much mechanically. I’d figured we’d likely get things like new units and maybe some smaller mechanics. But maybe not. Although, seriously, who knows at this point.