[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[PhilBowles]

Quick question: is there any proof that the choice to add new civs/leaders to the roster has something to do with a consumer-market?

I find it hard to believe a non civ-gamer will choose to buy the game because ‘their nation’ is in it.

Just wanted to know if Firaxis ever made a statement on this or that it’s just us as a community assuming such a thing.

Yes, Firaxis has stated that this is a consideration generally, as well as giving specific examples of some civs they've selected this way: at least, they've specified that Siam and Indonesia in Civ V, and Canada in Civ VI, were added partially or entirely on this basis, and there is at least a general feeling that this was probably a primary or tie-breaker concern when choosing Australia and Brazil - I can't bring to mind whether it's actually been stated anywhere. It was also a stated advantage of city states when those were introduced in Civ V that it allowed representation for areas players came from that didn't have civs.

I'm not sure they see it as bringing in new players directly, rather than doing something that will please existing fans in those countries who like the game - with the not-incidental aside that that is likely to help word-of-mouth marketing and games media coverage in those countries. People might not buy the game because 'their' civ is it, but they may become aware of it that way.

Or we could have James VI and I as a third leader for England as well as an alternate Scottish leader.

The alternate could well be a 'Celtic' leader with abilities more suited to the old Civ incarnations of the Celts to make the people who liked them happy, even if they are an odd fit for the rest of Scotland's abilities and uniques. It's not as though England's ability and uniques make any sense for Eleanor of Aquitaine.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Mostly I’m disappointed the new leader is for an expansion Civ when Egypt is practically crying out for an ancient pharaoh!

Bye

In fact i hope they give Cleopatra an alt skin where she looks greek af

 

[AtlantisAuthor]

I'm sure everyone has a personal Wish List of Civs, Leaders, Wonders, etc. we'd like to see somewhere along the line for as long as 2K/Firaxis supports Civ VI. With that in mind, I'd like to throw out my own personal Wish List complete with the odds I figure of them happening and let everyone add their own or make their own speculations as to their respective chances of coming to the game. I realize that mine are pretty much all faces from Civ V (my personal introduction to this great franchise), but again, we're all just speculating for fun here anyway for the most part. I'm also throwing out ideas for other categories which anyone can add to who wishes to do so.

CIVILIZATION/LEADER ODDS OF INCLUSION
Babylon/Nebuchadnezzar 90%
France/Napoleon Bonaparte 50%
Iroquois/Hiawatha 35%
Germany/Bismarck 20%
Huns/Attila 20%
Polynesia/Kamehameha 5%
Sioux/Sitting Bull 1%
Japan/Oda Nobunaga 1%
China/Wu Zetian 2%
Celts/Boudicca 10%
America/Washington, Lincoln, or John F. Kennedy 20% (Cumulative)
Portugal/Maria I 50%
Byzantium/Theodora 60%
Venice/Enrico Dandolo 2%
Egypt/Ramses II 15%
Rome/Julius Caesar 15%
Siam/Ramkhamhaeng 20%
Israel/Solomon 10%
Denmark/Harald Bluetooth 5%

NATURAL WONDER ODDS OF INCLUSION
Grand Canyon 70%
Angel Falls 5%
Victoria Falls 10%
Lake Baikal 20%
Mt. Fuji 65%
Krakatoa 30%
K2 10%
Monument Valley 15%

WORLD WONDER ODDS OF INCLUSION
Statue of Zeus 50%
Leaning Tower of Pisa 75%
Burj Khalifa 40%
Louvre 50%
Globe Theatre 25%
Temple of Solomon 10%
Millau Viaduct 5%
Parthenon 50%

UNITS ODDS OF INCLUSION
Rifleman 95%
Stealth Bomber 90%
Satellite Defense System (Against WMDs) 5%

RESOURCES ODDS OF INCLUSION
Titanium 60%

DISASTER TYPE ODDS OF INCLUSION
Plague (Research Required to Mitigate Effects) 70%
Earthquake 50%
Tsunami (Mitigated by Sea Walls,
Can Be Caused by Earthquakes) 1%
Extinction (Caused by Overharvesting a Given Species) 1%

 

[pokiehl]

Bye

In fact i hope they give Cleopatra an alt skin where she looks greek af

Why are you always so combative The guy didn't even say anything about Cleopatra 'not being Egyptian' and you jump down his throat about some perceived slight?

I’m disappointed the new leader is for an expansion Civ when Egypt is practically crying out for an ancient pharaoh!

Totally agree! It is a crying shame. There are so many interesting and varied choices... imagine what they could do with Akhenaten

 

[Morningcalm]

Totally agree! It is a crying shame. There are so many interesting and varied choices... imagine what they could do with Akhenaten

Please not Akhenaten. Would prefer a pharaoh that was competent, like Senusret III or Thutmose III, and who wasn’t foolish enough to build a capital city where there wasn’t potable water.

 

[bbbt]

I don't think anyone suggested him, but what if for DLC 5 we get Vietnam and Sejong as an alt leader for Korea?

In Rise and Fall both Mongolia and Korea were East Asian civs, so the alt leader can go to either if they make DLC 5 East Asian.

I just don't see them giving Korea a second leader unless they have some real strong data showing it will fly off the virtual shelves for Koreans. It doesn't seem a bit selling point for anyone else.

Kublai does seem likely, especially as he's been mentioned a lot in these forums. But I'm not sure they'd have him lead both China and Mongolia, and it still seems a difficult fit with the rest of the Mongolia's mechanics.

A combination of a Dutch alt leader, Portugal, and some sort of basic colonization/'Trading company' mechanic (even if not full fledged corporations) to me seems like it would be the best bet from a sales/marketing pov. But given what we are seeing in the apocalypse, I'm not sure they are going to get that elaborate with any new mechanics.

 

[pokiehl]

Please not Akhenaten. Would prefer a pharaoh that was competent, like Senusret III or Thutmose III, and who wasn’t foolish enough to build a capital city where there wasn’t potable water.

Those would be great choices too. I was just thinking there could be some interesting religion mechanics Akhenaten could have. I'm all for any accomplished pharaoh...just no Tutankhamen or anything

 

[Morningcalm]

Those would be great choices too. I was just thinking there could be some interesting religion mechanics Akhenaten could have. I'm all for any accomplished pharaoh...just no Tutankhamen or anything

I think for religion mechanics we could look to Gudea of Lagash or Hezekiah or Hatshepsut or Ashoka instead.

 

[pokiehl]

I think for religion mechanics we could look to Gudea of Lagash or Hezekiah or Hatshepsut or Ashoka instead.

We can look anywhere for just about anything.

Anyway we both agree Egypt deserved an alt.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I could see them using the animations from Saladin or Mansa Musa for an Ethiopian leader, depending on body shape.

Ezana looks like he has the shape of Shaka.

Spoiler :

Speaking of Kublai, Qin Shi Huang exists also. They seem to have more similar builds.

 

[AntSou]

I just don't see them giving Korea a second leader unless they have some real strong data showing it will fly off the virtual shelves for Koreans. It doesn't seem a bit selling point for anyone else.

Kublai does seem likely, especially as he's been mentioned a lot in these forums. But I'm not sure they'd have him lead both China and Mongolia, and it still seems a difficult fit with the rest of the Mongolia's mechanics.

A combination of a Dutch alt leader, Portugal, and some sort of basic colonization/'Trading company' mechanic (even if not full fledged corporations) to me seems like it would be the best bet from a sales/marketing pov. But given what we are seeing in the apocalypse, I'm not sure they are going to get that elaborate with any new mechanics.

There was backlash in Korea regarding Seondeok as leader. If it affected sales meaningfully, I could see them attempting to "fix it" with a more popular leader given how large a market they are. They are a business after all. But this is of course speculation.

I just hope it isn't Scotland. I'm fine with the Netherlands, Mongolia and Korea. India already has two leaders and Zulu, Georgia, Cree and Mapuche aren't getting a second one.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

There was backlash in Korea regarding Seondeok as leader. If it affected sales meaningfully, I could see them attempting to "fix it" with a more popular leader given how large a market they are. They are a business after all. But this is of course speculation.

I just hope it isn't Scotland. I'm fine with the Netherlands, Mongolia and Korea. India already has two leaders and Zulu, Georgia, Cree and Mapuche aren't getting a second one.

I agree with this line of thinking. I'd rate the likelihood of alt-leaders in this order: Mongolia, Korea, Netherlands, Scotland, all other RNF civs.

 

[Haig]

My opinion is that the dark horse civ left is a battle between Italy and Vietnam.

Then I remember them adding the city-state of Bologna just last year, and now Vatican. RIP Italy? They could rename Bologna, but it was just so recently..

Did they say somehere btw that the packs are going to be by region? That would really increase Asian civs' chances.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Please not Akhenaten. Would prefer a pharaoh that was competent, like Senusret III or Thutmose III, and who wasn’t foolish enough to build a capital city where there wasn’t potable water.

Since we have the Maya that have an incentive to settle where there isn't potable water, I'd say Akhenaton surprisingly became more likely

 

[AtlantisAuthor]

Just wanted to mention that the New Frontier Season Pass is up for sale on the PlayStation Store for $39.99, along with the first DLC Pack sold by itself for $8.99.

 

[Inawordyes]

My opinion is that the dark horse civ left is a battle between Italy and Vietnam.

Then I remember them adding the city-state of Bologna just last year, and now Vatican. RIP Italy? They could rename Bologna, but it was just so recently..

Did they say somehere btw that the packs are going to be by region? That would really increase Asian civs' chances.

Bologna was under direct papal control for almost 300 years (1506-1796), so there is a certain train of thought, especially depending on the time period that a theoretical Italian leader comes from, that could justify excluding Bologna from, for example, a Renaissance-based Italy city list without batting an eye. It’s obviously it’s own thing now and a major city in Modern Italy, but again, depending on the leader era you could leave Bologna out without it harming Italy’s chances of making it in.

the fact that we’ve gone the entire lifecycle of Civ VI and only gotten Bologna and Vatican City (both of which can justifiably be kept separate from Italy) and none of the other major city-states is more telling that at the very least, they’re keeping their options open. Unless all 6 city-states they’re adding are from the Italian peninsula haha, but we won’t know until the DLC releases tomorrow probably what the other 5 are besides VC.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My opinion is that the dark horse civ left is a battle between Italy and Vietnam.

Then I remember them adding the city-state of Bologna just last year, and now Vatican. RIP Italy? They could rename Bologna, but it was just so recently..

Did they say somehere btw that the packs are going to be by region? That would really increase Asian civs' chances.

It's not confirmed, but highly likely based off of both Gran Colombia and Maya being in the same one.
The question is Pack 1 all of the Americas, or based off of Latin America? Hopefully it's the latter. North America is now pretty scarce.

As much as I want Italy I'm not sure it will happen. If we get two European Civs both Portugal and the Byzantines are more likely. Plus Bologna was added recently, though it was just a replacement for Stockholm.

Speaking of a replacement, I see your from Finland, and I was thinking Turku would be a good replacement for Bologna if Italy got in. From what I know, Kristina founded the university there and was the first one in Finland. I think the suzerain bonus would be appropriate.

I'm not sure Vatican City matters because it's an independent city-state in real life and not part of Italy even though it's completely surrounded by Rome.

I agree with this line of thinking. I'd rate the likelihood of alt-leaders in this order: Mongolia, Korea, Netherlands, Scotland, all other RNF civs.

Part of me doesn't see how it won't be Mongolia.
Korea has a certain playstyle and Seondeok fits it fine. I feel like any other leader would be the same or not fit the science theme, unless that's the reason they want to go with a new leader.
I also don't think we'll have another European alt. leader after getting Eleanor of Aquitaine so that rules out Scotland and the Netherlands.
If the Netherlands get a new leader, do we expect it to have something to do with trade routes because Wilhelmina has that covered? If not I can't see the Netherlands not have any trading abilities whatsoever.
I agree that the others have less of a chance. Except the Cree, they have no chance for obvious reasons.

Plus with the recent reveal of Gran Colombia many people are saying that they just made Mongolia obsolete. I don't think they will be made obsolete for long.

 

[blackcatatonic]

My opinion is that the dark horse civ left is a battle between Italy and Vietnam.

Then I remember them adding the city-state of Bologna just last year, and now Vatican. RIP Italy? They could rename Bologna, but it was just so recently..

Meh, it was over a year ago - not especially recently - so I don't think that's a particular stumbling block. Bologna doesn't have anything specifically Italian about it in-game so it could easily be replaced with another Science CS. Vatican City was never going to appear on the city list of any Civ.

I did think at the time it was added that, after avoiding all Italian City-States in the game up to that point, it was odd they should finally include Bologna out of all of them. Sure, it has the oldest university in Europe and so fits as a good Scientific CS choice. But why not also add the others? And I do think it's interesting that both of these City-States - Bologna and now VC - are in what was formerly the territory of the Papal States, which in all probability would be left out if they were doing some kind of Renaissance Italy.

If we see any other Italian City-States in the DLC tomorrow it may well be game over for them though.

Did they say somehere btw that the packs are going to be by region? That would really increase Asian civs' chances.

I believe that's just our own speculation, although it does fit with patterns so far.

 

[bengalryan9]

I agree with this line of thinking. I'd rate the likelihood of alt-leaders in this order: Mongolia, Korea, Netherlands, Scotland, all other RNF civs.

I'm skeptical of Korea myself. Korea is already widely viewed as OP almost entirely based on the Seowon alone. Any new leader for them would be limited to a mediocre ability at best (it can't be any better than what top-tier Seondeok already has, and hers is nothing special) or they'd be totally broken, so that leader would mostly likely end up being a rather dull addition IMO.

I lean Mongolia or Netherlands personally.

 

[PhilBowles]

My opinion is that the dark horse civ left is a battle between Italy and Vietnam.

Then I remember them adding the city-state of Bologna just last year, and now Vatican. RIP Italy? They could rename Bologna, but it was just so recently..

Did they say somehere btw that the packs are going to be by region? That would really increase Asian civs' chances.

Vatican City is an independent state even today - it actually makes quite a lot of sense as a city-state alongside Italy, especially if Italy does have abilities that relate to city states. It's never been formally part of Italy and Italy didn't have any role in its governance, although the treaty recognising its independence in 1929 implies that an independent Vatican was then a new creation (and so by default the Holy See was part of a unified Italy between 1870 and 1929).

I've always been in the "Italy = Rome" camp, but when what we're seeing seems to be an active push to 'fill the gaps' with popular or requested civs in an otherwise final game Italy stands out as a very strong contender for inclusion because it's an extremely popular request and there's a lot of resistance to the idea that the Romans are sufficiently representative of Italy.