[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Navelgazer]

I really would like to see a Florentine civ one day, though I know that's not universal. For Native American nations, there are too many to even choose from, though I particularly like the Suquamish, Mississippian, or Seminole for Civ VI.

The Cherokee, of course, did some amazing "catching up" upon meeting colonizers, including creating a written language, free press, constitution and representational government within a decade, to say nothing of their massive prior culture. That aspect might not be something to build a Civ around, but the Cherokee would be very cool to see represented.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

yeah i think these city states are a decent idea of who *won’t* be in New Frontier. Ghaznavids (also Mughals?) and Taino are the big ones, both of which I would’ve been happy with. I’m surprised we are still yet to see Samarqand and Muscat as commercial city-states, so perhaps it’s not too late for the Timurids and the Sultanate of Oman to still show up.

 

[FedorWin]

Glad we didn’t get any Italian city-states, so Italian civ is still a possibility

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Glad we didn’t get any Italian city-states, so Italian civ is still a possibility

tbh I’m really hoping Italy doesn’t show up. At this point, I’m in the group which would rather have a native american civ

 

[Kwami]

yeah i think these city states are a decent idea of who *won’t* be in New Frontier. Ghaznavids (also Mughals?) and Taino are the big ones, both of which I would’ve been happy with. I’m surprised we are still yet to see Samarqand and Muscat as commercial city-states, so perhaps it’s not too late for the Timurids and the Sultanate of Oman to still show up.

Muscat is included with the Vikings DLC pack.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Muscat is included with the Vikings DLC pack.

oh never mind i’m stupid and i must have forgotten.

Still doesn’t preclude Oman since it’s an older city state

The Cherokee, of course, did some amazing "catching up" upon meeting colonizers, including creating a written language, free press, constitution and representational government within a decade, to say nothing of their massive prior culture. That aspect might not be something to build a Civ around, but the Cherokee would be very cool to see represented.

this is why Cherokee would be my favorite east coast civ to go into the game, over the Iroquois

 

[Kwami]

this is why Cherokee would be my favorite east coast civ to go into the game, over the Iroquois

Sure, but the Iroquois already had a constitution of sorts and a somewhat representative government. The Articles of Confederation took a lot of inspiration from the Iroquois system. And, yeah, they'd probably still be called Iroquois. For better or worse, that's the familiar, modern word that most people use and Firaxis almost always goes that way.

Although, they aren't really east coast, anyway.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Sure, but the Iroquois already had a constitution of sorts and a somewhat representative government. The Articles of Confederation took a lot of inspiration from the Iroquois system. And, yeah, they'd probably still be called Iroquois. For better or worse, that's the familiar, modern word that most people use and Firaxis almost always goes that way.

Although, they aren't really east coast, anyway.

Georgia is east coast

 

[untitledjuan]

Edit: Someone pointed out that this Hunza is actually a Muisca city.

Yeah, Hunza is the modern day city of Tunja, the Spanish changed its name when they conquered it from the Muisca in 1537 and then became a major colonial city as well. Bolívar recaptured Bogotá with his army stationed in Tunja in 1819. I wonder if it also appears in Gran Colombia's city list under the name of Tunja.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunja

 

[Kwami]

Georgia is east coast

Sure, but the Iroquois aren't from Georgia. I thought it was weird to say that you preferred Cherokee over Iroquois as an east coast option. Actually, Cherokee weren't coastal, either. They had parts of what's now western Georgia. I guess both were almost east coast! But that wasn't really the focus of either of them.

Yeah, Hunza is the modern day city of Tunja, the Spanish changed its name when they conquered it from the Muisca in 1537 and then became a major colonial city as well. Bolívar recaptured Bogotá with his army stationed in Tunja in 1819. I wonder if it also appears in Gran Colombia's city list under the name of Tunja.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunja

It does not.

        <!--Gran Colombia-->
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_BOGOTA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CARACAS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_QUITO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_GUAYAQUIL"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_MARACAIBO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CARTAGENA_DE_INDIAS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_PANAMA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_POPAYAN"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CUENCA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CUMANA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_BARINAS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CALI"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_VALENCIA_DE_CARABOBO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_SANTA_MARTA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_LOJA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_ANGOSTURA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_PASTO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_NUEVA_BARCELONA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_NEIVA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_MERIDA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_PORTOVIEJO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_RIOBAMBA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_IBARRA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_RIOHACHA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_QUIBDO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_NUEVA_PAMPLONA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_SANTIAGO_DE_VERAGUAS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_LA_ASUNCION"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_ACHAGUAS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_HONDA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_SOCORRO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_MOMPOS"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_TRUJILLO"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_SANTA_FE_DE_ANTIOQUIA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_PORE"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_CUCUTA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_MARIQUITA"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_SAN_FERNANDO_DE_APURE"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_MEDELLIN"/>
        <Row CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_GRAN_COLOMBIA" CityName="LOC_CITY_NAME_BARQUISIMETO"/>

 

[krmarci]

Why does everybody always want Napoleon to represent France? Please. If you want a militaristic leader, go for Louis XIV, but not Napoleon.
Having France represented by Napoleon would be like having Russia represented by Stalin: a fierce and strong leader that managed to put the country on a better spot on the map, but also an incredible tyrant, that completely betrayed a somewhat fined ideology for personal purpose. Napoleon waged war against all of Europe, reestablished slavery in a somewhat slave-free country, destroy the last bits of regionalism, transformed a proto-democracy into a tyrannical autocracy... And people still want him to represent France? Please, we have so many better leader that we don't need Popoleon to represent us. I'd even prefer Napoleon the Third rather than the petit caporal. Or maybe give France a true republican leader rather than the monarchist ones. Robespierre, Clemenceau, anything by Popoleon.

Robespierre?! I would take Napoleon a thousand times over Robespierre. He successfully conquered most of Europe (then lost it all by attacking Russia), and spread his Code Civil to the conquered countries. Robespierre, on the other hand, was a ruthless dictator who executed anyone even suspicious of having a different opinion. Napoleon III is mostly famous (outside of France) for losing against Germany.
Clemenceau could work, but I think de Gaulle would be better. I could also propose Charlemagne or Jean d'Arc as alternative leaders.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Sure, but the Iroquois aren't from Georgia. I thought it was weird to say that you preferred Cherokee over Iroquois as an east coast option. Actually, Cherokee weren't coastal, either. They had parts of what's now western Georgia. I guess both were almost east coast! But that wasn't really the focus of either of them.

idk if you live in the US, but generally if something is located in a coastal state, whether it’s actually coastal or not, we call it east coast

 

[AntSou]

Going by the grey area in @bite 's maps, these would be some potential Civs if they were attempting to cover as much of the map as they can. Not saying we'll see all of these, and certainly not in NF alone, just something to consider:

 

[Kimiimaro]

Napoleon III is mostly famous (outside of France) for losing against Germany.

Napoleon III may have been less successful in wars, as suggested by Mexico and Prussia, but he also managed to expand French colonial holdings and contributed significantly to the victory in the Crimean War. He was also very successful in internal matters of France. He supported industrialisation of France, expanded the railroad network of France significantly, rebuilt Paris into the modern city we more or less know today, contributed to modernisation of other cities like Lyon. Under his reign, France enjoyed immense economic growth and improvement of social policies as well. He may have lost his Empire to Prussia, but that doesn't negate his some 20 years of development he left behind himself in France.

 

[Ezumiyr]

Robespierre?! I would take Napoleon a thousand times over Robespierre. He successfully conquered most of Europe (then lost it all by attacking Russia), and spread his Code Civil to the conquered countries. Robespierre, on the other hand, was a ruthless dictator who executed anyone even suspicious of having a different opinion. Napoleon III is mostly famous (outside of France) for losing against Germany.
Clemenceau could work, but I think de Gaulle would be better. I could also propose Charlemagne or Jean d'Arc as alternative leaders.

I can see how Napoléon can look appealing for foreigners, though it would indeed be like picking Stalin for Russia. Some french people will like it, but I'm not sure you want to go in that direction.
But Jeanne d'Arc? Not even a ruler, not a completely historical one, and she's also a rallying cry for the french far right... and she used to be a rallying cry for the 19th century far right as well. And when I write far right, it's far right. Monarchists and pro-theocracy movements. That's close to picking Mussolini to lead Italy. Or, in a way, David for Israel. It's a bad choice.

Robespierre isn't a very good choice either for the exact same reason.

Frankly there are many kings that would make good options. Henri IV, Philippe, Louis XIV... And we could even go for Richelieu, who's a famous statesman who invented the modern state of France. Charles de Gaulle and Clémenceau aren't bad options, but let's not forget about Léon Blum, who could be a nice pick for an economy-oriented France. He ruled for a very short time but had a lasting impact that continues to this day despite WW2 and de Gaulle's more "traditionalist" views on society and politics.

Napoléon III wouldn't be a bad pick either for the reasons mentionned by Kimiimaro.
But Jeanne d'Arc? Please, never again.

 

[CivLuvah]

But Jeanne d'Arc? Not even a ruler, not a completely historical one, and she's also a rallying cry for the french far right

There is enough academic consensus to say that Joan of Arc was a real historical figure. And just because the far-right used her symbolism for their own interest doesn't mean that she's problematic per se. After her death, many people over time used her as a symbol outside politics (or as a symbol outside right-wing politics, if you count feminist depictions and readings of her).

Granted though, I am not making a case for her return to Civ6. She has been used as a leader before in Civ3 (Stalin as well in Civ4). It's sufficed to say that she's better as a Great General than a leader.

 

[TeddyMain]

If we do get a Native Civ in the NFP, I really hope its the Navajo or another Western Native group like the Apache, Ute, etc. Yeah, I would also like the Cherokee and Iroquois, but the Western US really needs some representation to fill that empty space.

Also, here's to hoping we get Hawai'i, mostly for the music potential.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

But Jeanne d'Arc? Please, never again

It is something like having Greta as the leader of Sweden, maybe even more ridiculous than that as atleast Greta is not a semi legendary figure and will likely be relevant for much longer than a single year or so that Jeanne was.

 

[bite]

Spoiler :

So something I have been pondering over the last little while. I was asked during the past Map update to map out the unattached features. Well nothing popped out to me before but now there may be a pattern.

The Maya - all of these now chart to The Maya civ
Gran Colombia - all of these now chart to Gran Colombia civ
Ethiopia - all of these probably will chart to the Ethiopia civ
??? 1 - This cluster all feel like they should have gone to surrounding civs but maybe Byzantium?
??? 2 - The least grouped cluster, not sure if this shows anything
??? 3 - Another lose group, could be Burma, could be Vietnam
??? 4 - The most densely grouped collective, making me think that while Vietnam is my first SEA option, it might just be the Philippines
??? 5 - Not sure here, maybe Melanesian civ, but that feel like a reach
??? 6 - Most of these just feel like they are there for completion sake, but maybe the Swahili
??? 7 - Some of these feel like they should be in the Zulu list, but it could be something more

 

[CivLuvah]

Spoiler :

So something I have been pondering over the last little while. I was asked during the past Map update to map out the unattached features. Well nothing popped out to me before but now there may be a pattern.

The Maya - all of these now chart to The Maya civ
Gran Colombia - all of these now chart to Gran Colombia civ
Ethiopia - all of these probably will chart to the Ethiopia civ
??? 1 - This cluster all feel like they should have gone to surrounding civs but maybe Byzantium?
??? 2 - The least grouped cluster, not sure if this shows anything
??? 3 - Another lose group, could be Burma, could be Vietnam
??? 4 - The most densely grouped collective, making me think that while Vietnam is my first SEA option, it might just be the Philippines
??? 5 - Not sure here, maybe Melanesian civ, but that feel like a reach
??? 6 - Most of these just feel like they are there for completion sake, but maybe the Swahili
??? 7 - Some of these feel like they should be in the Zulu list, but it could be something more

Am I missing something here? Where did we have at least a vague knowledge of where the next five civilizations are going to be?

Just asking because I really really want Italy to be a civ.