[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Mudokon Pop]

The inclusion of Gran Colombia also surprised me, but I think Gran Colombia was added for three reasons: 1) Simon Bolivar has a great personality; 2) Some people were finding unfair having 3 former British colonies and none Hispanic, and Gran Colombia was the most requested Hispanic modern nation to correct this gap; 3) From a mercagological point of view, Gran Colombia can please the Hispanic Latin market as a whole more than Argentina or Mexico, due to a nationalistic and heroic feeling that Simon Bolivar represents.

I hope I didn't imply fan service is a bad thing - it's important to support your fanbase. I simply meant that comment in response to speculation about Vietnam - I don't know how many of these civs will be dedicated to fan service over whatever the devs want to do.

As for the brevity of the Gran Colombia, I forgot Fireaxis are heavily aiming for character/personality in their choices. And it seems the impact of Bolivar extends well beyond the end of his visionary country.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why are folks so bullish on Portugal? Is this based on anything from Firaxis, or simply their inclusion in prior games?

Their past appearances since Civ 3 does help base our assumptions. To me it would be weird if they were left out of the game when Kongo and Brazil are in the game,
along with the other Age of Discovery nations: England, France, Spain and the Dutch are in the game as well. It would be nice if they included the nation that started it.

Of the outstanding civs that have been in the past in multple editions (and don't have some kind of replacement civ) we have Babylon (5 times) ,Byzantium (4 times), Portugal (3 times), you would think they would all be in by the end, but nothing is given at the moment

Were the Byzantines in Civ 2?

 

[Hoppip22]

Why are folks so bullish on Portugal? Is this based on anything from Firaxis, or simply their inclusion in prior games?

Portugal is the last of the overseas colonial empires to not be included in Civ VI so far, (unless you count bELgiUm) so it seems odd to not include them imo.

 

[PhilBowles]

Gran Colombia has really surprised me, didn't expect them at all. Ethiopia is obviously confirmed. Portugal is damn certain. I'm also almost sure we'll get Byzantium. Not so sure about Babylon (hey it even cannot use ziggurat

Babylon has never had Ziggurats in past Civ games. They inherited them but it's not a characteristic - let alone a make-or-break - feature of Babylon.

I am honestly slightly irritated than Scotland got "golf course" UI and Canada got "hockey rink" UI. So many dignified possibilities, but let's go with the lowest memes; after all those Scots and Canadians are such funny strangers!
I mean, it's not malevolent, but if America got Saloon, Aztec got Human Sacrifice Pyramid, India got Joga Center (Jesus Christ it's such terrible idea I have impressed myself!!), Japan got Anime Studio, Korea got K-Pop Studio, England got Tea Shop, Germany got Oktoberfest Pub and Russia (or Poland lol) got Vodka Factory - then I'd be really goddamn concerned.

America has had Shopping Malls before (Civ IV, I think) and Japan has an Electronics Factory. Aztecs had a UA themed around human sacrifice in Civ V. Brazil has carnivals. Gran Colombia has Haciendas. There's a lot of over-caricaturing going on. Scotland and Canada aren't alone, though these are among the more embarrassing choices.

 

[Zaarin]

Aztecs had a UA themed around human sacrifice in Civ V.

They still do. What do you think happens to the Builders you rush districts with?

 

[Navelgazer]

I don't mind the Golf Courses or Hockey Rinks on their face - they're a caricature of their cultures, but they look nice and I'm super in favor of any UI, especially ones that sell the flavor of their respective civs, which those do, for better or worse.

What I don't like is how late they come, how hard they are to place, and how few of them you can build.

 

[kb27787]

I kinda want Babylon as a civ (however their CS bonus is just so good I'd be sad to see it go...) otherwise Cyrus' ability name makes no sense...
Also, if Simon Bolivar made it off the GG list then I'd love to see Queen Boudicca return as a leader (but with Scotland already in... her capital cannot be Edinburgh as in BNW anymore)

 

[AntSou]

I'd love to see Queen Boudicca return as a leader

Zaarin incoming.

*Types "Zaarin boudicca" in google.*

First result:
"I have a problem with kilt-wearing, caber-tossing, woad-tattooed, dreadlocked, ceilidh-hosting, tree-hugging, Welsh-speaking neo-pagan/New Age hippie Boudicca".
- Zaarin
---

I may have removed the parts of his post that were no fun.

 

[Zaarin]

Also, if Simon Bolivar made it off the GG list then I'd love to see Queen Boudicca return as a leader (but with Scotland already in... her capital cannot be Edinburgh as in BNW anymore)

I was going to respond but @AntSou beat me to it. Suffice to say that after doing it twice, I don't trust Firaxis not to make her an absurd stereotype, not to mention that the Iceni are not a compelling civ compared to the Gauls or Medieval Irish. (Also, why would her capital be in Edinburgh? The Iceni lived in modern day Norfolk/Suffolk, and her capital was Venta Icenorum, modern day Caistor St. Edmund. Civ5's Celt city list was just one of many, many problems with the Celtic civilization.)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They still do. What do you think happens to the Builders you rush districts with?

Or China whenever you build a Great Wall segment.

I don't mind the Golf Courses or Hockey Rinks on their face - they're a caricature of their cultures, but they look nice and I'm super in favor of any UI, especially ones that sell the flavor of their respective civs, which those do, for better or worse.

I agree. At first I was honestly confused by the Golf course, but because of that I would have never known that modern day golf was invented in Scotland and they have the biggest percentage of land dedicated to golf courses out of all the countries in in the world (relative to their size).
As for Canada, I was really expecting a hockey rink, in the first place, to be honest. Though I thought it would come later at Professional sports as a Stadium replacement. So it being earlier than I thought is a plus.

I kinda want Babylon as a civ (however their CS bonus is just so good I'd be sad to see it go...) otherwise Cyrus' ability name makes no sense...

I mean Cyrus name still makes sense because they are in the game. Honeslty between Assyria and Babylon I'm not sure but if Babylon does get in I'm sure Nineveh would be the replacement and it could keep the same bonus.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Unfortunately they would have to take it off of Spain's city list if that was the case and they already took off Granada. I'm not sure if they wanted to keep taking colonial cities off their list.


Considering all the countries today, that make up Gran Colombia, were all united at one time politically I don't see the reason to call it a blob Civ.

Bogota was on Spain’s city list initially too, I think.

San Jose would be awkward because there's one in California and the American primary audience would wonder why it isn't in the US city list instead of realising it's intended to be the Costa Rican capital.

They did get away with Panama City in Civ V, but the Florida one isn't as well-known as the Californian San Jose - I only know it from a line in Guitar Man, and until recently I thought that for some reason Elvis was singing about the one actually in Panama.

they haven’t been afraid to do cities which are also cities elsewhere in the past. Alternatively, they could use Tamarindo or Arenal, which could function as cultural costa rica.

I was going to respond but @AntSou beat me to it. Suffice to say that after doing it twice, I don't trust Firaxis not to make her an absurd stereotype, not to mention that the Iceni are not a compelling civ compared to the Gauls or Medieval Irish. (Also, why would her capital be in Edinburgh? The Iceni lived in modern day Norfolk/Suffolk, and her capital was Venta Icenorum, modern day Caistor St. Edmund. Civ5's Celt city list was just one of many, many problems with the Celtic civilization.)

if the Iceni were added it would be just for Boudicca, like how Colombia was added for Bolivar, or (to a lesser extent) the Zulu for Shaka

 

[Mudokon Pop]

I'd love to see Queen Boudicca return as a leader (but with Scotland already in... her capital cannot be Edinburgh as in BNW anymore)

Already mentioned, but since historical inaccuracies bother me to no end, Boudicca was not from Scotland - and Edinburgh did not exist for several centuries after her death. I don't know if the Iceni name for their capital is recorded - but Venta Icenorum is what the Romans called Boudicca's captial.

If Fireaxis still want to do a Celtic Queen - the Queen Medb/Maeve of Ireland [mythological with a possible historical basis but the same can be said for Gilgamesh, Dido & Kupe] is worth considering.

Another is Graine Uí Maille (Grace O'Malley in English records) is an Irish Chieftain who surpasses Boudicca in my opinion. She was a Chieftain, a merchant, a 'pirate' who stole tax collected by the Tudors claiming it for Irish nobility instead, divorced her husband and convinced his army to join her army - and besiege his castle. She used her merchant fleet to supply weapons to her allies against the Tudors.
Tired of dealing with Tudor governors - she sailed to London, despite being wanted and demanded an audience with the Queen. English records say that Grainne pulled a dagger out of her bosom when meeting Queen Elizabeth I - which she insisted was for her own protection!
She ultimately made peace with the Tudors, securing Connacht for the Irish. The treaty later failed and war resumed.

She's a fascinating figure - and one of the last sovereign Gaelic nobles who backed down from no one.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Bogota was on Spain’s city list initially too, I think.

I know Granada was. I don't think Bogota was.

 

[PhilBowles]

they haven’t been afraid to do cities which are also cities elsewhere in the past. Alternatively, they could use Tamarindo or Arenal, which could function as cultural costa rica.

Arenal is mostly associated with the volcano, which makes most sense as either a Natural Wonder or - like Krakatoa - just an available name for a volcano (not all site names are localised to civs). Does Costa Rica particularly demand representation as a cultural powerhouse? Since things like Naturalists use faith and Costa Rica is notable for touristed national parks, it could conceivably be faith-related if represented at all.

My enduring memory of San Jose is of it having a daily Beatles Hour on radio at least as late as the early 2000s, still having a footwear chain called Penny Lane a decade later, and a tour guide discussing his favourite Beatle with my mother. It seems much more a recipient than a source of cultural trends.

 

[kb27787]

Already mentioned, but since historical inaccuracies bother me to no end, Boudicca was not from Scotland - and Edinburgh did not exist for several centuries after her death. I don't know if the Iceni name for their capital is recorded - but Venta Icenorum is what the Romans called Boudicca's captial.

As long as I get my blue-face-painted Pictish warriors and druidic lore (something like LotR elves) I'm satisfied whatever they decide to call her capital. (I still remember the achievement for the city with the longest name--I only known it ends in gogogogh or something like that)

I mean in fantasy games, Dwarves are always Scottish (at least their accents), Orcs (barbarians) are probably Scythian/Mongolian, we need our Wood elves! (Cairns as a unique improvement, etc.)

I mean Cyrus name still makes sense because they are in the game. Honeslty between Assyria and Babylon I'm not sure but if Babylon does get in I'm sure Nineveh would be the replacement and it could keep the same bonus.

But Cyrus doesn't get the combat bonus when declaring against CSs.... (which Babylon currently is). Ironic isn't it that "fall of Babylon" doesn't work on, well, Babylon.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

As long as I get my blue-face-painted Pictish warriors and druidic lore (something like LotR elves) I'm satisfied whatever they decide to call her capital.

You and me have very different ideas on how to approach a Celtic civs! Despite being Irish, the Gauls would be my first choice for the Celts.

 

[Zaarin]

I mean Cyrus name still makes sense because they are in the game. Honeslty between Assyria and Babylon I'm not sure but if Babylon does get in I'm sure Nineveh would be the replacement and it could keep the same bonus.

I'd replace Babylon with Ebla or Mari, personally.

if the Iceni were added it would be just for Boudicca, like how Colombia was added for Bolivar, or (to a lesser extent) the Zulu for Shaka

Except that the Zulu fill a space in South Africa and Gran Colombia stands in for about four South American nations. Iceni would just be indulging Boudicca, whose historical significance is chiefly in leading a revolt that ended disastrously for her and her people.

If Fireaxis still want to do a Celtic Queen

Cartimandua. If we're going to have a Briton civ, let her lead it instead of the ill-starred Boudicca.

As long as I get my blue-face-painted Pictish warriors and druidic lore

Woad tattoos are a myth; woad is highly caustic and will burn your skin, not dye it. Druids were a sophisticated, educated priestly caste, not half-naked savages frolicking about the woods hugging trees. I only want the Celts to return as a civ if Firaxis bases them on history, not stereotypes and myths.

 

[Navelgazer]

Grace O'Malley would be a very interesting leader (a friend of mine literally wrote the book on Pirate Women, and O'Malley is one of my favorite chapters there) but IF Ireland were to get in, it probably wouldn't have a Piracy flavor to it. (Maybe, though? Coming in the same pack as the naval-centered Portugal could mean that they theme them somewhat together à la Khmer and Indonesia or Persia and Macedon, but again, probably not.) Cartimandua was Celtic, but from modern-day England (like Boudicca, whom I agree is a bad choice for all the reasons Zaarin mentions) which isn't how I'd predict them doing this either. Queen Medb is more legendary than Gilgamesh, Dido or Kupe are, not so much a part of a mythological past as an eternal deity whom kings would ceremonially "marry" to obtain their divine right.

Brian Boru is IMO the best leader idea I've yet heard for Ireland, especially since Medieval era is probably the most fruitful for an Irish civ. Gormflaith ingen Murchada is a fascinating figure from what little we know of her (most of which was propaganda written significantly after her lifetime) but she's certainly a Big Personality of the Lady MacBeth type, and was Queen Consort to two successive High Kings (including Brian Boru, whose death the propaganda claims she caused) as well as a King of Dublin. Cacht ingen Ragnaill was Queen of Ireland though her husband was not styled as High King, which is a unique situation in the Irish Monarchy but we also don't really know anything about her or why she had a superior title to her husband.

So if there was to be an Irish civ led by a woman (and I'm all in favor of representation of women leaders) I think Gormflaith would be the most interesting and fitting choice. Strong period for the civ, interesting life, big personality, and flavorful in a way that "feels" like Ireland.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But Cyrus doesn't get the combat bonus when declaring against CSs.... (which Babylon currently is). Ironic isn't it that "fall of Babylon" doesn't work on, well, Babylon.

Isn't declaring a direct war against a city-state like a surprise war though? To me the name is flavorful and doesn't have to be taken literal. It's just a reference to when he took Babylon easily and wasn't seen as a conqueror by the Babylonians, but more of a liberator from their current ruler.

I'd replace Babylon with Ebla or Mari, personally.

Thanks. I don't know as much about Near East cities as you, so Nineveh was the only one I could think of (because of Ashurbanipal's library) since I don't expect both to get in the game.

 

[Navelgazer]

Isn't declaring a direct war against a city-state like a surprise war though? To me the name is flavorful and doesn't have to be taken literal. It's just a reference to when he took Babylon easily and wasn't seen as a conqueror by the Babylonians, but more of a liberator from their current ruler.

I mean, Tomyris' LUA is "Killer of Cyrus" and they were in before Cyrus was even in the game.