[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

i mean Chinook isn’t an interior group: they spanned from jsut north of the tillamook to modern day Portland and Mt. Hood.

Culturally they’re different from the strictly coastal nations like Haida and Tlingit but they aren’t fully unrelated and I’d still consider them a PNW tribe

True, but the Chinook and Interior Salish are almost always grouped with the Interior/Plateau.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The only civs on which Portugal could overlap are England, Spain and the Netherlands, but they do not get any bonus related to colonization. Spain is a religious warmonger and Netherlands is a merchant. What we have as a colonizer in England are Victoria's bonuses, while the English civ itself is an industrialist and has nothing of a colonizer. Which makes the European colonizer niche totally open to Portugal without overlapping any civ.

We don't have a Civ with exploration bonuses either like Spain was for Civ 5. It makes sense for Portugal who started the Age of Exploration.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The only civs on which Portugal could overlap are England, Spain and the Netherlands, but they do not get any bonus related to colonization. Spain is a religious warmonger and Netherlands is a merchant. What we have as a colonizer in England are Victoria's bonuses, while the English civ itself is an industrialist and has nothing of a colonizer. Which makes the European colonizer niche totally open to Portugal without overlapping any civ.

ALSO Germany. Remember Portugal's UI in V was the Feitoria, which was basically the Portuguese equivalent of the Hansa.

The problem is between Spain, England, Netherlands, and Germany, there isn't much room for Portugal to feel conceptually very unique. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's entirely possible the devs would rather bring in civs with more unused design space to maneuver in. Portugal could very well end up being one of those staples that is pushed back until the very end, and sold more on nostalgia than good design.

(And frankly I would rather a few of the weaker staples like Portugal be pushed back in this manner. Not removed...I don't think the devs would allow Civ to wrap up without Portugal and Byzantium; but put off for a bit longer so that the devs can introduce more new civs first)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

ALSO Germany. Remember Portugal's UI in V was the Feitoria, which was basically the Portuguese equivalent of the Hansa.

We have the Outback Station and the Hacienda in the same game. Those are more similar than what the Feitoria and the Hansa are.
Besides I expect it to be closer to being a coastal version of the Chateau as a unique improvement. Requiring coast and adjacent to a luxury resource for the bonuses, but not a district.

 

[Revanchist]

We have the Outback Station and the Hacienda in the same game. Those are more similar than what the Feitoria and the Hansa are.
Besides I expect it to be closer to being a coastal version of the Chateau as a unique improvement. Requiring coast and adjacent to a luxury resource for the bonuses, but not a district.

If they introduced a colonization mechanic or something that really makes Portugal stand out I could see it, but I don't think it can do much to differentiate itself from Spain unless there is some divine intervention from the dev team. Portugal needs to make itself distinct without falling into the same traps that Spain has by having bonuses all over the place and not getting enough synergy between bonuses to make it a reliable civ

One more thing: I wish there were more alternate leaders for civilizations like the Netherlands and Korea. A lot of the leader bonuses feel unintuitive, and I think that a pack solely for alternate leaders would be a great way to diversify gameplay

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If they introduced a colonization mechanic or something that really makes Portugal stand out I could see it, but I don't think it can do much to differentiate itself from Spain unless there is some divine intervention from the dev team. Portugal needs to make itself distinct without falling into the same traps that Spain has by having bonuses all over the place and not getting enough synergy between bonuses to make it a reliable civ

I've already stated that there's no reason that they should give Portugal religious warmongering bonuses, like Spain. So it would be distinct from Spain gameplay wise.

As far as synergy goes who knows what they'll come up with. I'm sure they'll think of something especially with one of the 4 unrevealed new game modes. The design of civs have gotten better since the base game, and they were pretty decent back then in my opinion.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

We have the Outback Station and the Hacienda in the same game. Those are more similar than what the Feitoria and the Hansa are.
Besides I expect it to be closer to being a coastal version of the Chateau as a unique improvement. Requiring coast and adjacent to a luxury resource for the bonuses, but not a district.

We did just get the Maya with a luxury resource bonus. I would be somewhat surprised if we got a second civ in NFP with a similar luxury adjacency bonus. (Although if they pushed Portugal to next season that wouldn't be an issue)

If they introduced a colonization mechanic or something that really makes Portugal stand out I could see it, but I don't think it can do much to differentiate itself from Spain unless there is some divine intervention from the dev team. Portugal needs to make itself distinct without falling into the same traps that Spain has by having bonuses all over the place and not getting enough synergy between bonuses to make it a reliable civ

One more thing: I wish there were more alternate leaders for civilizations like the Netherlands and Korea. A lot of the leader bonuses feel unintuitive, and I think that a pack solely for alternate leaders would be a great way to diversify gameplay

I did like a concept of Portugal that involved claiming a lot of ocean tiles. But I agree that it will be a challenge for the devs to make Portugal distinct from Spain, have a unique mechanical niche different from England/Netherlands, and also still feel quintessentially Portuguese. It's a tall order, and I would not blame the devs if they just retooled the Spain mechanics into a clone civ just to get Portugal in the game and feeling like Portugal.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

We did just get the Maya with a luxury resource bonus. I would be somewhat surprised if we got a second civ in NFP with a similar luxury adjacency bonus. (Although if they pushed Portugal to next season that wouldn't be an issue)

I see building it on the coast as the main requirement. Being adjacent to luxuries would just give it extra bonuses.

Besides both the Maya and Gran Colombia were released together with their unique infrastructure getting adjacency bonuses from plantations.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The Pueblo aren't going to make it in due to the Civ 5 controversy. The Navajo are probably the best bet for a SW desert civ and they were able to farm and raise animals in the desert.

not controversy as much as their religion being that the language they speak is sacred and having a voice actor speak it would be sacrilegious.

 

[Revanchist]

I've already stated that there's no reason that they should give Portugal religious warmongering bonuses, like Spain. So it would be distinct from Spain gameplay wise.

As far as synergy goes who knows what they'll come up with. I'm sure they'll think of something especially with one of the 4 unrevealed new game modes. The design of civs have gotten better since the base game, and they were pretty decent back then in my opinion.

I was more referring to the treasure fleets ability and how Portugal might have something very similar, as they were a massive trading empire. Religion bonuses wouldn't hurt, but I think they need to be impactful. My worry is that if they are included, there won't be much of an emphasis on colonization and it will just have a small bonus instead of something impactful that emphasizes a new gameplay style. They had something unique going on with Feitoria in Civ 5, but I felt that the sense of building a trading empire was not fully utilized there as well.

 

[Zaarin]

TBH I can't think of any reason to give Portugal religious bonuses. Sure, they were Catholic (and if I'm not mistaken they're now one of the more religious nations in decreasingly religious Europe), but pretty much every pre-Industrial society was religious. I wouldn't say Portugal historically stands out for their religiosity, certainly not the way Spain with its Most Catholic Monarchs does.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

If I had to choose between Portugal and Italy, I would go for Italy. But having Brazil and not Portgual in an iteration would be the last nail in Portgual's imperialistic decadence.

For the question regarding if Portugal should be religious or not, don't forget that in Asia, the first and main missionaries native people saw were portugueses. I'm reading a serie of books taking place in 17th century Vietnam, and in the last books, the issues with catholic missionaries and the native are omnipresents, and the missionaries and merchants are always portugueses. Taken, the two authors aren't historians but they based their books upon tales their grandmothers told about their ancestors, a mandarin during this time, and the inspiration is thoroughly documented.

The main problem I see with Portugal is that, yes, it overlaps with tpp many mechanics:

• Merchant empire: we have the Netherlands, England and Phoenicia having bonuses towards maritime trade routes.
• Religious colonization: Spain took this spot.
• Maritime exploration: the Maoris can sail on the ocean earlier already and the Norwegian can embark earlier too, so no new individual mechanic.

The Portugueses were the first to launch the Age of Exploration, but if they have something like "Can declare War of COlonization earlier and gain bonuses the 20 first turns after declaring War of COlonization", it would be awful. We already have Protectorate, Liberation and Territorial wars, no need for a fourth casus belli capacity.

But even we can think of something that would make Portugal unique and fun to play:

• CUA: Treasure fleet - Settling on a different continent than you capital for the first time grant 1 random inspiration. Internal trade routes produce +2 gold for each luxury resource in the starting city. Reefs grant a major adjacency bonus for Commercial Hubs, Theater Squares and Holy Sites.
• UI: Feitoria: Must be built on the coast. +5 gold. If built on another continent than the Capital, give +4 loyalty for the city to the city it is built in. %aritime trade routes can't be plundered in a four-tiles radius around a Feitoria.
• UU: Caravela (I know the Caravel already exist but right now I don't know any better and the Portuguese invented the Caravel so for this post it will be enough):
• Leader: Henry the Navigator. LUA: The Navigator - gain +1 Trade Route capacity and 500 gold each time you discover a Natural Wonder (double if you're the first to doscover it). Cities with a Natural Wonder in their frontiers produce +10% gold, science, culture and faith. Discovering a Natural Wonder trigger 3 random Inspirations.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Instead of either, i want Ireland

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

• CUA: Treasure fleet - Settling on a different continent than you capital for the first time grant 1 random inspiration. Internal trade routes produce +2 gold for each luxury resource in the starting city. Reefs grant a major adjacency bonus for Commercial Hubs, Theater Squares and Holy Sites.

• UI: Feitoria: Must be built on the coast. +5 gold. If built on another continent than the Capital, give +4 loyalty for the city to the city it is built in. %aritime trade routes can't be plundered in a four-tiles radius around a Feitoria.

• UU: Caravela (I know the Caravel already exist but right now I don't know any better and the Portuguese invented the Caravel so for this post it will be enough):

• Leader: Henry the Navigator. LUA: The Navigator - gain +1 Trade Route capacity and 500 gold each time you discover a Natural Wonder (double if you're the first to doscover it). Cities with a Natural Wonder in their frontiers produce +10% gold, science, culture and faith. Discovering a Natural Wonder trigger 3 random Inspirations.

Treasure fleet is already the UA for Spain so no need to make it the same thing. Here are my ideas and they are somewhat similar:

Leader: Joao II

Capital: Lisbon

Agenda: Padrão -Likes to be the first to reveal new areas of the map and control the most ocean tiles. Dislike Civs who reveal more of the map than him and control more ocean tiles.

LA: The Navigator’s Nephew- Naval units receive experience for exploring like Recon units as well as combat. Gain tribal village rewards when discovering a new natural wonder for the first time.

LA: Age of Discovery- Trade routes receive extra gold for every ocean tile in the origin city. Coastal water tiles owned generate science. Plantations trigger a culture bomb when built.

UU: Nau (back from Civ 5) - Stronger than the Caravel it replaces. Also has faster movement and has greater sight.

UI: Feitoria- Must be built on coast. Receives production and gold when built. Receives extra gold for every adjacent luxury resource. +4 fortified strength.

 

[Zaarin]

For the question regarding if Portugal should be religious or not, don't forget that in Asia, the first and main missionaries native people saw were portugueses. I'm reading a serie of books taking place in 17th century Vietnam, and in the last books, the issues with catholic missionaries and the native are omnipresents, and the missionaries and merchants are always portugueses. Taken, the two authors aren't historians but they based their books upon tales their grandmothers told about their ancestors, a mandarin during this time, and the inspiration is thoroughly documented.

True. Fear of Portuguese political interference triggered persecution of the native Kirishitan in Edo Japan, for instance, and the Portuguese were actively involved in mission work--but so were Spanish, French, and Italian Jesuits and Dutch and English Protestants. I'm still not overly convinced that Portugal is a top priority for religious bonuses. Virtually any civ could have religious bonuses, but not every civ should.

UU: Caravela (I know the Caravel already exist but right now I don't know any better and the Portuguese invented the Caravel so for this post it will be enough):

What about the nau? EDIT: Ninja'd by Alexander's Hetaroi.

Also, on the topic of Portugal's leader, Civ6 likes "kings asleep in the mountain." We have Frederick Barbarossa and Tamar of Georgia, for instance. Might as well add Sebastian I of Portugal.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

True. Fear of Portuguese political interference triggered persecution of the native Kiri****an in Edo Japan, for instance, and the Portuguese were actively involved in mission work--but so were Spanish, French, and Italian Jesuits and Dutch and English Protestants. I'm still not overly convinced that Portugal is a top priority for religious bonuses. Virtually any civ could have religious bonuses, but not every civ should.


What about the nau? EDIT: Ninja'd by Alexander's Hetaroi.

Also, on the topic of Portugal's leader, Civ6 likes "kings asleep in the mountain." We have Frederick Barbarossa and Tamar of Georgia, for instance. Might as well add Sebastian I of Portugal.

wait why the censor

 

[Zaarin]

wait why the censor

Not me--Civfanatics is overly sensitive and censors profanity inside other words. Kiriѕһіtan, キリシタン, Japanese Catholics from the Edo period.

 

[Revanchist]

I have probably stated this earlier somewhere else, but if the feitoria was a unique district that could be built on coasts and act as a fort/trading hub, that would be pretty cool.

By coasts, I mean on top of the water and not on land

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I have probably stated this earlier somewhere else, but if the feitoria was a unique district that could be built on coasts and act as a fort/trading hub, that would be pretty cool.

By coasts, I mean on top of the water and not on land

it would make sense as a harbor replacement which gives more gold and production

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Treasure fleet is already the UA for Spain so no need to make it the same thing. Here are my ideas and they are somewhat similar:

Leader: Joao II

Capital: Lisbon

Agenda: Padrão -Likes to be the first to reveal new areas of the map and control the most ocean tiles. Dislike Civs who reveal more of the map than him and control more ocean tiles.

LA: The Navigator’s Nephew- Naval units receive experience for exploring like Recon units as well as combat. Gain tribal village rewards when discovering a new natural wonder for the first time.

LA: Age of Discovery- Trade routes receive extra gold for every ocean tile in the origin city. Coastal water tiles owned generate science. Plantations trigger a culture bomb when built.

UU: Nau (back from Civ 5) - Stronger than the Caravel it replaces. Also has faster movement and has greater sight.

UI: Feitoria- Must be built on coast. Receives production and gold when built. Receives extra gold for every adjacent luxury resource. +4 fortified strength.

It could work. Feels almost a bit too much like Phoenicia but there's only so much design space for maritime civs.

And we don't need another harbor replacement. I think a commercial hub or industrial zone would be more unique if given a coastal limitation.