[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[AntSou]

I consider an alt leader for America very, very low priority even if we get a fifth DLC pass--or even a tenth.

Sure, but I wasn't arguing based on what I want. We're 4 years in and still only 1 NA Civ, only 1 Mesopotamian Civ, Maya were just released and still no sign of Byzantium, so I don't think what we consider low/high priority in Civfanatics is that important, I'm just going with what I think they might do.

Uh, Grant and TR really don't look much alike at all. Grant was a sort of dumpy looking guy with a sagging face and a scraggly beard, nothing at all like the neat, fit, healthy TR with his spectacles and mustache. The only president I'd say bore any resemblance to TR at all is William Howard Taft, as we saw when TR was a little excessively chubby in his first look. Not to mention 1870s fashion looks nothing like Belle Époque fashion so they'd be dressed completely differently. I'm not advocating for Grant--though not corrupt himself, his administration was heinously corrupt because he was too trusting, and as a general he was only modestly competent--I'm just saying he looks absolutely nothing like TR

They would not be "dressed completely differently". A slightly different variation of modern western male attire doesn't make it completely different. They had to dress Wilfrid in a garish purple tailcoat just to avoid the artistic overlap. John Curtin is missing his jacket because Roosevelt is already wearing one, and so nobody else can. Not a dark brown/gray/black one anyway. Unless they give him something striking to compensate. Grant has no such thing. Lincoln has a Top Hat and big ass ears and legs, plus an easily distinguishable beard.

We're using different standards to define "sameness". What matters to me is whether the new Leader is strikingly different, because Firaxis seems to be avoiding any artistic overlap. It doesn't matter whether at closer inspection you can notice how Grant's attire differs from Roosevelt's, but whether it causes an immediate impact by looking at him for two seconds.

The only way Grant could achieve that imo is in a Union Uniform.

 

[The Kingmaker]

If they ever did do Grant, I think a muddy, shabby uniform would be exactly what was needed.

General Grant feels more authentic as a character than President Grant.

I think he ran for president because he was persuaded by sycophants that he could win with his reputation as a victorious general (which was a lot different from his reputation as a butcher just a few years earlier after say, the disastrous Battle of Cold Harbor).

As president, he was manipulated by schemers and had a woefully corrupt cabinet because the old soldier was just out of his depth as a politician.

 

[Revanchist]

I want Jefferson with an ability focused on his statecraft and agrarian dream if we are getting another president (Which I do not believe is likely). Farms could get a bonus production and provide 1 housing, and maybe he gets access to a unique government plaza building that provides a unique government and some other bonus, like faster tile acquisition.

For Ethiopia, building massive obelisks would be cool and make the civilization stand out more. If it has to be a cultural/religious civ, then at least give it something unique. Perhaps there could be a special project that allows you to change the holy city/capital, or something to that extent. I know Aksum was considered to be a holy city, so an allusion to that would be cool

 

[Zaarin]

They've taken artistic liberties in the past. If they really want to show them off I could possibly see them deciding not to depict them being underground in-game, but everything else would be shown.

I'd be disappointed. That they're embedded in the ground is part of what makes them so impressive.

Sure, but I wasn't arguing based on what I want. We're 4 years in and still only 1 NA Civ, only 1 Mesopotamian Civ, Maya were just released and still no sign of Byzantium, so I don't think what we consider low/high priority in Civfanatics is that important, I'm just going with what I think they might do.

I don't think an alternate American leader is that high a priority for anyone. In my observation Americans don't get the thrill of "playing their country" that citizens of other nations seem to get, and the vast majority of Americans don't have the same enthusiasm about American history that citizens of other nations have. I don't think anyone is going to get excited over having a second American leader added to the game.

They would not be "dressed completely differently". A slightly different variation of modern western male attire doesn't make it completely different.

I guess it depends on how much you appreciate the differences in Western dress. IMO an 1870s men's suit looks absolutely nothing like a 1900s men's suit. In the 1900s, as you can see on Teddy, the cut was closer-fitting and more formed, the lines were sleeker, and tweed was favored. Shades of brown, cream, and light grey were also much more fashionable compared to the darker greys and blacks fashionable in the 1870s. To take it a step further and bring in personality, Teddy was neat and trim and a spiffy dresser; Grant was more unkempt and unconcerned about his appearance, with slack-fitting clothes and a scruffy beard. True, women's attire changes more and changes faster, but men's fashion hasn't stood still for 300 years.

I doubt it will happen but if it does...

Pachacuti: "We Inca are the masters of the mountains."

Ethiopia: "That's funny."

I mean, there's plenty of ground to give Ethiopia mountain bonuses. The Ethiopian Highlands may not be as tall as the Andes, but they're nevertheless one of the most resource-abundant regions of Africa.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I mean, there's plenty of ground to give Ethiopia mountain bonuses. The Ethiopian Highlands may not be as tall as the Andes, but they're nevertheless one of the most resource-abundant regions of Africa.

They should get the rock-hewn church as a holy site replacement to put on mountains,

I’ll do another mock up, i suppose

Ethiopia

UA: Union of nine lands: Cities with Rock Hewn Church Complexes gain +5 loyalty. Cities built on hills gain +3 faith for each district that they have. Rock Hewn Church Complexes cannot be pillaged if they contain a temple.

UU: Shotelai Swordsman: Replaces Swordsman. +5 combat strength against heavy and light cavalry units. +5 combat strength if within 7 tiles of a Ethiopian city.

UI: Rock Hewn Church Complex: Replaces Holy Sites. Must be be built on Mountains. Rock Hewn Church Complexes receive a flat +3 faith adjacency bonus, and provide +1 faith to mines adjacent to one

Menelik II:

LA: Defender of Abyssinia: +15 combat strength when combating within Ethiopia’s borders. Unlocks the Mehal Saferi unit.

LUU: Mehal Saferi: Replaces Infantry. +15 combat strength on the continent which Ethiopia’s capital is on, but only 5 Mehal Saferi can exist at a time.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I want Jefferson with an ability focused on his statecraft and agrarian dream if we are getting another president (Which I do not believe is likely). Farms could get a bonus production and provide 1 housing, and maybe he gets access to a unique government plaza building that provides a unique government and some other bonus, like faster tile acquisition.

You mean like Monticello?
I guess a Congress building could work too for the unique government.

For Ethiopia, building massive obelisks would be cool and make the civilization stand out more. If it has to be a cultural/religious civ, then at least give it something unique. Perhaps there could be a special project that allows you to change the holy city/capital, or something to that extent. I know Aksum was considered to be a holy city, so an allusion to that would be cool

I would take that if it was based off of the stelae fields, instead of just one monument like replacement.

I'd be disappointed. That they're embedded in the ground is part of what makes them so impressive.

I think it's more on the grounds that Ethiopia would have coffee bonuses, pun intended.
We'll see.

 

[Zaarin]

Rock Hewn Church Complexes cannot be pillaged if they contain a temple.

That would certainly encourage me to build a Dar-e Mehr in all my cities.

I think it's more grounds that Ethiopia would have coffee bonuses, pun intended.

Ethiopian coffee is the best coffee so yes please.

 

[AntSou]

In my observation Americans don't get the thrill of "playing their country" that citizens of other nations seem to get

Really? I have been arguing under the assumption that they did and that an American leader might sell very well in the US, and that that alone would put an alt for America at the top of Firaxis list. If that's not the case then I don't see the point of an alt for America.

I guess it depends on how much you appreciate the differences in Western dress. IMO an 1870s men's suit looks absolutely nothing like a 1900s men's suit. In the 1900s, as you can see on Teddy, the cut was closer-fitting and more formed, the lines were sleeker, and tweed was favored. Shades of brown, cream, and light grey were also much more fashionable compared to the darker greys and blacks fashionable in the 1870s.

It's not so much about the variations in Western dress, but those variations in the context of a game which includes dresses and styles from all around the globe and across history. In that context, I don't see the differences as significant.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Really? I have been arguing under the assumption that they did and that an American leader might sell very well in the US, and that that alone would put an alt for America at the top of Firaxis list. If that's not the case then I don't see the point of an alt for America.

As another American I can confirm that I'd rather other options than an alt for America right now.
Though I'd still buy it if it came out.

 

[Morningcalm]

As an American, I wouldn’t mind too much if America wasn’t a civ choice in the vanilla build of a Civ game. I know that will likely never come to pass, but just saying. I would rather have an ancient civ like Assyria or the Hittites.

 

[Zaarin]

It's not so much about the variations in Western dress, but those variations in the context of a game which includes dresses and styles from all around the globe and across history. In that context, I don't see the differences as significant.

I find historical fashion interesting, so to me the looser suits of the 1870s are no more similar to the form-fitting jackets of the turn of the century than Gorgo's chiton is to...whatever that ahistorical thing Pericles is wearing is supposed to be. (I think it's supposed to be a himation...but it looks more like a tunic, which a Greek statesman like Pericles would have found rustic at best if not outright barbaric. )

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Ethiopian coffee is the best coffee so yes please.

Wait a minute, I thought ejercito patriota made GC the coffee civ.

 

[Zaarin]

Wait a minute, I thought ejercito patriota made GC the coffee civ.

I'm not particularly a fan of Colombian coffee. As far as New World coffees go, Peru has far and away the best, followed by Guatemala and Costa Rica. But I prefer any African coffee (especially Ethiopian or Kenyan, but I've become a big fan of Rwandan coffee lately, too, and of course I've had some good coffees from Uganda and Tanzania). I've found Pacific coffee to be hit or miss to my tastes. I'm currently drinking a Papuan coffee that is amazing, but I've had others before that didn't wow me.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I'm not particularly a fan of Colombian coffee. As far as New World coffees go, Peru has far and away the best, followed by Guatemala and Costa Rica. But I prefer any African coffee (especially Ethiopian or Kenyan, but I've become a big fan of Rwandan coffee lately, too, and of course I've had some good coffees from Uganda and Tanzania). I've found Pacific coffee to be hit or miss to my tastes. I'm currently drinking a Papuan coffee that is amazing, but I've had others before that didn't wow me.

Yeah point being coffee is quite prolific around the world; it's difficult to choose one civ to be the "coffee" civ over another, as evidenced that you covered a pretty broad geography without even mentioning Italy or Turkey/Arabia. I think Austrian coffee houses were about the best decision the devs could have made on that front since they imply a larger cultural effect than simply "good coffee."

After getting golf courses and hockey rinks, I think I would be okay if we skipped coffee in VI. Seems more likely we would get a "pub" instead of a monastery anyway if Ireland were included lol.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah point being coffee is quite prolific around the world; it's difficult to choose one civ to be the "coffee" civ over another, as evidenced that you covered a pretty broad geography without even mentioning Italy or Turkey/Arabia.

I mean, if anyone deserves it, Ethiopia does since coffee originated there. (Also to my knowledge coffee doesn't grow in Italy or Turkey. It does in very small amounts in Arabia, namely in Yemen--Moka and all that. Moka coffee is broadly similar to Ethiopian, with the bright floral notes but generally with lower acidity and more earthy/herby flavors. Coffee--good coffee--is actually pretty picky about where it grows: it needs to be between the tropic of Cancer and the tropic of Capricorn, with high elevation and lots of rain--but not too much rain. That chiefly happens to be East Africa, Indonesia/Papua New Guinea/Hawai'i, and Central/South American Cordillera from the Andes through Guatemala. There are coffees grown elsewhere--I had a delicious coffee grown in Mexico a couple years ago, and I spotted one grown in China a while back that I sadly didn't get to try. But those are the chief places.)

I think Austrian coffee houses were about the best decision the devs could have made on that front since they imply a larger cultural effect than simply "good coffee."

I found it somewhat amusing because, at various points in history, coffee houses were banned in both Austria and the Ottoman Empire for being a gathering place of artists, poets, freethinkers, political dissidents, and radicals.

 

[Uberfrog]

Yeah point being coffee is quite prolific around the world; it's difficult to choose one civ to be the "coffee" civ over another, as evidenced that you covered a pretty broad geography without even mentioning Italy or Turkey/Arabia.

I think the idea is that Ethiopia is where coffee as a crop originated. It would be a terrible idea as a Civ bonus, though (and I agree with Zaarin that Ethiopian coffee is the best )

 

[Abaxial]

I'm not particularly a fan of Colombian coffee. As far as New World coffees go, Peru has far and away the best, followed by Guatemala and Costa Rica. But I prefer any African coffee (especially Ethiopian or Kenyan, but I've become a big fan of Rwandan coffee lately, too, and of course I've had some good coffees from Uganda and Tanzania). I've found Pacific coffee to be hit or miss to my tastes. I'm currently drinking a Papuan coffee that is amazing, but I've had others before that didn't wow me.

You should try coffee from the Democratic Republic of Congo.

On a different note, for anyone here interested in early Persian empires who has acess to BBC Iplayer, DO watch "Art of Persia" episode 1, covering the Elamites to the Sasanians.. It is simply jaw-dropping. So you thought the Great Wall of China was impressive? See the Gorgan Wall!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah point being coffee is quite prolific around the world; it's difficult to choose one civ to be the "coffee" civ over another, as evidenced that you covered a pretty broad geography without even mentioning Italy or Turkey/Arabia. I think Austrian coffee houses were about the best decision the devs could have made on that front since they imply a larger cultural effect than simply "good coffee."

After getting golf courses and hockey rinks, I think I would be okay if we skipped coffee in VI. Seems more likely we would get a "pub" instead of a monastery anyway if Ireland were included lol.

Coffee House to me was strange for Austria when I of course associate coffee more with the other civs mentioned.
I was thinking an Alpine Ski Resort for Civ 6 for them before GS. Of course now we got that which anyone can build even on a desert mountain.

I'm sure Ireland would get the monastery since Armagh already has that as it's unique improvement. No reason to get rid of it.

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

Really? I have been arguing under the assumption that they did and that an American leader might sell very well in the US, and that that alone would put an alt for America at the top of Firaxis list. If that's not the case then I don't see the point of an alt for America.

Personally I've found America to be kind of boring.

 

[Zaarin]

You should try coffee from the Democratic Republic of Congo.

I have, but I suspect it was either a poor exemplar or improperly roasted because I wasn't thrilled with it.

I was thinking an Alpine Ski Resort for Civ 6 for them before GS. Of course now we got that which anyone can build even on a desert mountain.

I mean, Dubai has one without the mountain so it's not that unrealistic. Plus there are ski resorts in Arizona.