[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

* The Goths. By far the most popular civ, and the most subscribed outside of Axis powers.

I can see them. Theodoric has been co-opted to some extent by white supremacist groups, so I don’t know if they’d go with the goths, pick Alaric instead, or pick one of the Visigoths or Ostrogoths.
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Vietnam. Also one of the most popular civs, generally page 1 or 2.

I think they’re very very likely

* The Inuit/Greenland. Also more popular than nearly any other civ, again page 1 or 2, and later on page 6. I think the Maori get a pass because they were a deblobbed Polynesia, but I think if the Maori didn't have the precedent of being part of a Civ V civ, no one would be seriously considering them. I think a Northern equivalent might actually happen purely because of how popular the Inuit are.

still can’t see the inuit happening bcs no relevant leaders or cities. I presume Greenland is possible, but if they’re doing a snow civ, I’d hope they’d pick Sapmi

Bulgaria and Oman. Bulgaria is quite popular, P. 3 (I just checked, P. 8 on subscribed). Oman is also popular, P. 5 (and P. 3 on subscribed). I'd say these are the two biggest competitors remaining in the top three pages.

If we get the Byzantines, Bulgaria is realistically a moot point, but Bulgaria could fit that niche fairly well and end up being the civ.

Oman has to be in the running bcs it hits too birds with one stone: with their rule of Zanzibar, they’d effectively fill the hole that east african leaves, while also being an interesting middle eastern pick in its own right. Would essentially play as a fusion of a theoretical Portugal and Mali.

Finland and Afghanistan. Finland is on page one for both popularity and subscription, and appears multiple times. Afghanistan also appears multiple times in the top ten pages of both lists. While both of these feel quite comfortable as city-states, they are insanely popular, Finland especially. They could happen based purely on demand (the Saami are also within the top five pages so they might be used as a more interesting Finnish stand-in)

Yeah, Finland, imho, despite being highly requested, would be fairly boring. They have meme status like georgia, as they’re oft called the true rome successor or whatever, so I guess that’s what they have going for them. I’d rather see the saami here too. In regards to Afghanistan, it’s a big gap that would be really good to fill. An Afghan/Pashtun kingdom might be harder said than done, because the low hanging Afghan nation would be the Ghaznavids, probably under Mahmud or Sabuktigin.

Something in the Caribbean. There are a lot of Cuba and Pirates civs in the top ten pages. While I am perfectly satisfied with just the Taino city-state, the Taino don't really cover Cuba nor Buccaneers. I could see at least one more city-state, or possibly like Finland/Afghanistan a full civ if the devs think there is demand. Though maybe the Taino were intended to fill this spot.

I can imagine both Cuba and Haití would be good picks. Cuba may be too controversial, their best leader choice would undoubtedly be Fidel, and he’s got a bad rap in both China (Soviet-Sino split) and the US, the biggest markets for Civ, so it doesn’t sense for them to put him.

L’overture would be an amazing fit for civ. He’s a big personality, and he’s very popular, fits the liberator/resistor archetype that the civ devs seem to like (Lautaro, Curtin, Bolivar, Poundmaker, Wilhelmina, Robert, Gandhi, Menelik, Nvemba, Saladin all fit this archetype, and with the exceptions to Saladin and Gandhi, all are new additions). It’s the same reason that if we get the Navajo, Manuelito (who resisted) makes more sense than Barboncito (who conformed).

The Sioux, Papal States, and Jerusalem show up more than once in the top ten pages. Two of these are city-states and I don't see the Sioux happening in light of the Cree. But we might see a Soiuan city-state like Blood Run.

Sioux would be boring. Papal States makes little sense and Jerusalem would be too controversial.

 

[Zaarin]

I can see them. Theodoric has been co-opted to some extent by white supremacist groups, so I don’t know if they’d go with the goths, pick Alaric instead, or pick one of the Visigoths or Ostrogoths.

The best thing to do with idiots is ignore them. [Insert extremist or fringe group here] has claimed everything at some point. The solution is to teach real history, not tiptoe around their fringe theories.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

* The Goths. By far the most popular civ, and the most subscribed outside of Axis powers.

So you are saying Italy has a chance?

Part of me feels like they would go for Gauls over the Goths for another Classical European civ because of the demand for something Celtic.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

As I recall Theodoric had a daughter, Amalasuintha, who was very cultural minded. She came to a bad end which prompted Justinian to invade Italy.

 

[Zaarin]

As I recall Theodoric had a daughter, Amalasuintha, who was very cultural minded. She came to a bad end which prompted Justinian to invade Italy.

I'd be a big fan of this, because otherwise the Goths are at great risk of just being another one-trick Domination civ.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I can see them. Theodoric has been co-opted to some extent by white supremacist groups, so I don’t know if they’d go with the goths, pick Alaric instead, or pick one of the Visigoths or Ostrogoths.

We have this same problem with Arminius. While you might be right, I am also not at all opposed to reclaiming historical figures from extremist groups.

I suspect it's Theoderic or bust for the Goths, since uniting the Gothic kingdoms seems very in line with the "inclusive" attitude the devs have leaned toward with civs like Phoenicia, Greece, and the Angevin empire.

still can’t see the inuit happening bcs no relevant leaders or cities. I presume Greenland is possible, but if they’re doing a snow civ, I’d hope they’d pick Sapmi

We could have said the same thing about Scythia and the Maori (and the Mapuche as far as city-lists). But the devs figured out city lists and leaders for them as well.

I definitely expect to see something Inuit, even if it isn't a civ. They are just so popular in the civ community.

If we get the Byzantines, Bulgaria is realistically a moot point, but Bulgaria could fit that niche fairly well and end up being the civ.

Possibly. I think if we get a second season then we are quite likely to get both. We have Scythia alongside Mongolia. We had Venice alongside Rome in V. I still have some small hope that merely being adjacent to a HUGE empire doesn't completely rule out what was also a huge regional power in its own right. I also think it would make for a more intriguing and focused civ design than Byzantium which tends to sprawl conceptually.

Oman has to be in the running bcs it hits too birds with one stone: with their rule of Zanzibar, they’d effectively fill the hole that east african leaves, while also being an interesting middle eastern pick in its own right. Would essentially play as a fusion of a theoretical Portugal and Mali.

Or just be a stand-in for Morocco since we don't see to be getting that this time around.

Yeah, Finland, imho, despite being highly requested, would be fairly boring. They have meme status like georgia, as they’re oft called the true rome successor or whatever, so I guess that’s what they have going for them. I’d rather see the saami here too. In regards to Afghanistan, it’s a big gap that would be really good to fill. An Afghan/Pashtun kingdom might be harder said than done, because the low hanging Afghan nation would be the Ghaznavids, probably under Mahmud or Sabuktigin.

Finland would probably make a great city-state, though. I still think that Afghanistan will remain a city-state, given that it doesn't really have powerhouse names for leaders and Tamerlane is tapping his toe right next door.

But, again, both are very popular so I figured I'd make note in case they try to surprise us.

I can imagine both Cuba and Haití would be good picks. Cuba may be too controversial, their best leader choice would undoubtedly be Fidel, and he’s got a bad rap in both China (Soviet-Sino split) and the US, the biggest markets for Civ, so it doesn’t sense for them to put him.

L’overture would be an amazing fit for civ. He’s a big personality, and he’s very popular, fits the liberator/resistor archetype that the civ devs seem to like (Lautaro, Curtin, Bolivar, Poundmaker, Wilhelmina, Robert, Gandhi, Menelik, Nvemba, Saladin all fit this archetype, and with the exceptions to Saladin and Gandhi, all are new additions). It’s the same reason that if we get the Navajo, Manuelito (who resisted) makes more sense than Barboncito (who conformed).

I think Cuba doesn't deserve to be in and is disproportionately pushed by American war enthusiasts; if it weren't literally next door to us I doubt it would be considered much at all.

L'overture leading Haiti seems like it has potential, though. I think a Caribbean civ is pretty low on the priority list after Caguana, but it's certainly not without good options.

I'd be a big fan of this, because otherwise the Goths are at great risk of just being another one-trick Domination civ.

It does seem to be the most popular civ design, though. Even with trying to theme most of the civs to R&F and GS, the devs still included a token domination civ that had nothing to do with either theme. Mongolia wasn't a small, enduring empire; the Ottomans didn't have any terrain bonuses. They were just generic domination civs and likely could have sold the entire expack just by themselves.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

We already have a one-trick Dom civ. Grand Colombia.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

We already have a one-trick Dom civ. Grand Colombia.

well there’s quite a few, tbh: Macedon, Zulu, Ottomans, Aztecs, Mongolia, Scythia don’t have many other options, while Sumer and Persia have pivot options (science and culture respectively) but are dom minded

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

well there’s quite a few, tbh: Macedon, Zulu, Ottomans, Aztecs, Mongolia, Scythia don’t have many other options, while Sumer and Persia have pivot options (science and culture respectively) but are dom minded

But I mean within NFP.

 

[Zaarin]

We could have said the same thing about Scythia and the Maori (and the Mapuche as far as city-lists).

Not really. The Scythians had several choices for leaders, and Tomyris, even being of dubious historicity, was a particularly compelling one. Granted the devs chose the worst possible option for the Scythian city-list (I would have started with the handful of Scythian cities ancient geographers mentioned and gone to Scythian clans from there). As for the Maori, they had many well-attested chieftains, which is what I would have expected them to use over Kupe, and many settlements.

I definitely expect to see something Inuit, even if it isn't a civ. They are just so popular in the civ community.

I think Iqaluit (or Nuuk) as a city-state is the best option.

We already have a one-trick Dom civ. Grand Colombia.

We have about five or six of them. We're well-sated on one-trick Dom civs. (Also, No. 3 in my hall of fame, No.2 until this afternoon, was a pacifist Science Victory with Gran Colombia so...)

while Sumer and Persia have pivot options (science and culture respectively) but are dom minded

Eh, only Cyrus' LUA is war-related; everything else about Persia is 100% Culture. As for Sumeria, it has the early unique to enable early conquest, but Sumeria doesn't really lose anything except some alliance points by playing peacefully.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

But I mean within NFP.

ah, yes, that’s true. I’d imagine the goths would have city-conquering and pillaging abilities, but they were known for having a wide variety of cultural and religious influences mixed in the populace’s, so i could imagine they’d work with religious multiculturalism, not unlike India, while having some type of bonus like Norway. Perhaps faith/dom based?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think a good UA for the Goths would be the ability to get a random Civic* every time they take a city.

*one that the target civ has fully researched.

Then they would be acquiring the culture of the civ they target and incentivized to target cultural civs. They would be the cultural version of the Civ V Assyrians.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

well there’s quite a few, tbh: Macedon, Zulu, Ottomans, Aztecs, Mongolia, Scythia don’t have many other options, while Sumer and Persia have pivot options (science and culture respectively) but are dom minded

I've seen AI Scythia spam missionaries like crazy though after they've spammed kurgans all around their cities.

And everybody knows Macedon is great at producing culture throughout the world.

 

[Zaarin]

ah, yes, that’s true. I’d imagine the goths would have city-conquering and pillaging abilities, but they were known for having a wide variety of cultural and religious influences mixed in the populace’s, so i could imagine they’d work with religious multiculturalism, not unlike India, while having some type of bonus like Norway. Perhaps faith/dom based?

Yeah, a lot of the preserved Gothic writings are religious, including Wulfila's partial translation of the Bible. The Goths were also partially Eastern Orthodox and partially Arian heretics so they could have some schismatic-related ability.

I think a good UA for the Goths would be the ability to get a random Civic* every time they take a city.

*one that the target civ has fully researched.

Then they would be acquiring the culture of the civ they target and incentivized to target cultural civs. They would be the cultural version of the Civ V Assyrians.

Yes, I think that would be perfect.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think Iqaluit (or Nuuk) as a city-state is the best option.

Yeah, I think either or both of these appearing as cultural city states would be best, with perhaps an ability that grants an extra district placement in snow cities to allow small snow cities to thrive, perhaps? (I don’t know if that would work) Maybe +1 culture, +1 food to snow tiles?

I think a good UA for the Goths would be the ability to get a random Civic* every time they take a city.

*one that the target civ has fully researched.

Then they would be acquiring the culture of the civ they target and incentivized to target cultural civs. They would be the cultural version of the Civ V Assyrians.

This would be interesting but also would play weird esp in cov 6, where being technologically behind is a massive harm to your chances, so it might not necessarily help.

Amalasuintha is a very appealing character, as are Theodoric and Alaric.

Alaric has the advantage of having been responsible for the sack of rome, and in that regard, could be a thematic successor to Atilla, since the huns were clearly a poor choice, despite Atilla’s appeal as one of the sackers of Rome.

Theodoric would ultimately be a good fit as a builder-king, as he was responsible for a lot of rebuilding roman cities.

One of the larger issues is the fact that they led from Ravenna, which is on the Roman city list. Removing cities from city lists isn’t unprecedented, but it has been rare, so I wonder if the goths will actually show up. Then again, an italian civ would be awkward in terms of city lists as well

I’d imagine the civ could look something like this:

Goths: Theodoric:

CA: Sacking of Rome: Conquering a city grants an inspiration for a civic that the civ which previously owned the city had previously researched. If no civics are available, the current researching civic receives an inspiration

UU: Volunteer Infantry: Replace Swordsman. -5 combat strength but half the cost. Gains a promotion the first time it pillages a tile. Volunteer Infantry gain +3 combat strength for each two promotions.

UI: Arian Basillica. Replaces Shrine. 1 Great Writing Slot

LA: Architect of Ravenna: pillaged or damaged building or districts can be repaired free of cost by builders. Aqueducts are 10% cheaper to produce. The palace holds a great writing slot.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah, I think either or both of these appearing as cultural city states would be best, with perhaps an ability that grants an extra district placement in snow cities to allow small snow cities to thrive, perhaps? (I don’t know if that would work) Maybe +1 culture, +1 food to snow tiles?

I figured an Inuksuk improvement that could be built on Tundra and Snow.

UU: Volunteer Infantry

I know we have a lot of them, but I sort of took it for granted the Goths would have a horseman UU.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I figured an Inuksuk improvement that could be built on Tundra and Snow.


I know we have a lot of them, but I sort of took it for granted the Goths would have a horseman UU.

i don’t necessarily associate the goths that much with cavalry, idk. Their success in sacking rome was built on mobilizing on-demand infantry from their citizenry.

 

[Zaarin]

i don’t necessarily associate the goths that much with cavalry, idk. Their success in sacking rome was built on mobilizing on-demand infantry from their citizenry.

I could see them getting some kind of heavy infantry UU, but heavy cavalry was definitely part of their strategy.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I could see them getting some kind of heavy infantry UU, but heavy cavalry was definitely part of their strategy.

that’s true.

An inuksuk would be a good ui for a inuit city state, but i’ve only seen them used in British Columbia, so I don’t know if they fit an inuit cs

 

[Zaarin]

An inuksuk would be a good ui for a inuit city state, but i’ve only seen them used in British Columbia, so I don’t know if they fit an inuit cs

Wikipedia says they were used throughout Inuit lands, from Alaska to Greenland.