[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Xandinho]

The interesting thing about choosing Menelik II over earlier Ethiopian rulers is how Sub-saharan Africa is represented chronologically.

Classical: Amanitore
Medieval: Musa
Renaissance: Mvemba
Industrial: Shaka
Late Industrial-Modern: Menelik II

We might be able to use this analysis to predict other new civs.

Edit: Followup analysis

So if we look at Europe, we see that there are already 4 classical leaders, 5 Medieval leaders, 6 Renaissance leaders, 1 Industrial leader, and 1 Modern leader. If we assume that they will add Portugal (Renaissance) and Byzantium (Medieval), the first thought is, why add anything else? But if they did, it certainly wouldn't be a Renaissance or Medieval civ like an Italian city-state. The obvious choice would be an Industrial era civ, like the Kingdom of Italy (Menelik's adversary). And don't try to talk me into Classical Celts. Scotland = deblobified Celts for better or worse in Civ VI.

To complete the chronology, add an Egyptian pharaoh to the gap for ancient African leader .

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So, if I were to make 2 assumptions (that this is the last hurrah for Civ VI, and all series regulars will be included in the final roster), my guess would look something like this

Maya
Gran Colombia
Ethiopia
Babylon (series regular)
Portugal (series regular)
Byzantines (series regular)

And then 2 of the following
Iroquois (almost a series regular) or a similar borderline pre-Industrial Native North American group
Burma/Siam/Vietnam (Renaissance or Industrial era leader)
Berbers/Morocco
Kingdom of Italy or another Industrial era focused European (least likely of this set)

I strongly doubt we will see an additional Renaissance or Medieval European civ or a Classical/Medieval Asian civ or any more Sub-saharan African civs. Or anything else from South America or Oceania.

@Xandinho I wish, but it seems likely that the alt-leader will be for a RnF civ, right?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To complete the chronology, add an Egyptian pharaoh to the gap for ancient African leader .

Egypt isn't in Sub-Saharan Africa considering Cleopatra wasn't on the list.

I strongly doubt we will see an additional Renaissance or Medieval European civ or a Classical/Medieval Asian civ or any more Sub-saharan African civs. Or anything else from South America or Oceania.

Plot twist: They bring back Maria the Mad for Portugal opening up a spot for Renaissance Italy.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Egypt isn't in Sub-Saharan Africa considering Cleopatra wasn't on the list.


Plot twist: They bring back Maria the Mad for Portugal opening up a spot for Renaissance Italy.

Even if they did, it wouldn't open up the spot so much as provide much needed spread away from the over-full European Renaissance.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Even if they did, it wouldn't open up the spot so much as provide much needed spread away from the over-full European Renaissance.

With Ed Beach at the helm who knows what his limit is?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

there are way too many medieval european civs :/

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Egypt isn't in Sub-Saharan Africa considering Cleopatra wasn't on the list.


Plot twist: They bring back Maria the Mad for Portugal opening up a spot for Renaissance Italy.

You're silly. We won't be getting Renaissance Italy. Why would we need Italy when we have Italian!Catherine?

there are way too many medieval european civs :/

Do we have Bulgaria? Then nope, not too many yet.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

there are way too many medieval european civs :/

No. There just aren't enough civs from other regions and eras.

 

[AntSou]

Alright guys, that list I posted early was kind of trash. Don't pay much attention to it. It doesn't take into account anything other than the time the leader led. I'm making a better one, though it takes time. I might post it tomorrow.

Just as an example:

- Hungary is essentially led by a late Medieval/Early Renaissance ruler yet its unique unit and building are Industrial themed.
- Japan is led by a medieval ruler, but has a unique building which becomes available in the Industrial Era and explodes in production/culture in the modern era.

We could, for instance get Trung Sisters from the classical era, ruling what's essentially Dai Viet in the medieval era, but with a unique unit set in the industrial/modern era.

Actually drawing this on a table is making me realise stuff I wasn't aware of.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just as an example:

- Hungary is essentially led by a late Medieval/Early Renaissance ruler yet its unique unit and building are Industrial themed.
- Japan is led by a medieval ruler, but has a unique building which becomes available in the Industrial Era and explodes in production/culture in the modern era.

Not to mention we know we are getting a Modern/Industrial Ethiopian leader with a Medieval infrastructure.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Not to mention we know we are getting a Modern/Industrial Ethiopian leader with a Medieval infrastructure.

and hopefully an ancient or classical unit

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Alright guys, that list I posted early was kind of trash. Don't pay much attention to it. It doesn't take into account anything other than the time the leader led. I'm making a better one, though it takes time. I might post it tomorrow.

Just as an example:

- Hungary is essentially led by a late Medieval/Early Renaissance ruler yet its unique unit and building are Industrial themed.
- Japan is led by a medieval ruler, but has a unique building which becomes available in the Industrial Era and explodes in production/culture in the modern era.

We could, for instance get Trung Sisters from the classical era, ruling what's essentially Dai Viet in the medieval era, but with a unique unit set in the industrial/modern era.

Actually drawing this on a table is making me realise stuff I wasn't aware of.

I think it's kind of hopeless to try to categorize civs by era based on the totality of their abilities. Many of them are designed to some extent as "grand tours" of several polities representing their cultural apexes, so they really defy being placed wholly in any particular era. See: England, France, Germany, Norway, Russia, China, Japan, India, Egypt, Scotland, Korea, Hungary, Sweden, etc. ...

In fact, with the right alternate leader choice Egypt or China could span milennia, same as India (and with some references to say Wessex or Magna Germania or Kievan Rus' several other civs could equally extend quite far back in history). So the whole system somewhat falls apart under VI's weird preference for consolidating empires by cultural continuity because several civs have been around forever.

I've generally assumed that most attempts to sort civs by era have looked solely at the leader choice. Since those tend to flavor their civ the most and represent a discrete period in time.

 

[untitledjuan]

We could’ve gotten a classical SA civ if they’d given us the múisca

The earliest Muisca ruler we know something about lived in the early 1400s

 

[GenyaArikado]

So, if I were to make 2 assumptions (that this is the last hurrah for Civ VI, and all series regulars will be included in the final roster), my guess would look something like this

Maya
Gran Colombia
Ethiopia
Babylon (series regular)
Portugal (series regular)
Byzantines (series regular)

And then 2 of the following
Iroquois (almost a series regular) or a similar borderline pre-Industrial Native North American group
Burma/Siam/Vietnam (Renaissance or Industrial era leader)

I think this is what we're getting. I think Civfans commented enough about the trung sisters to bring them up to firaxis attention and with them and Theodora we fill our female quota.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think this is what we're getting. I think Civfans commented enough about the trung sisters to bring them up to firaxis attention and with them and Theodora we fill our female quota.

I think the devs will go for Irene over Theodora. Just a hunch.

 

[GenyaArikado]

that works too, but i think they could give Theodora cleo anims with ease

 

[PhoenicianGold]

that works too, but i think they could give Theodora cleo anims with ease

Given how some of the leaders are characterized like Philip and Victoria, I could buy a sultry Irene.

Even better: Simeon I with Cleopatra animations.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Given how some of the leaders are characterized like Philip and Victoria, I could buy a sultry Irene.

Even better: Simeon I with Cleopatra animations.

tbh from her wiki article she reads more like someone who would use Catherine anims...

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The earliest Muisca ruler we know something about lived in the early 1400s

my bad, i stand corrected

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Okay so some dark horse candidates:

A while back I took at look at the top ten pages of most popular mods and noted that quite a few of the additions/changes seemed to align with popular mods on steam. As far as new civs, a Greece Split (P. 1), the Norse (P. 2), Sumeria (P. 3), and Kongo (P. 7), and as far as switching up leaders, Qin Shi Huang (P. 1), Peter (P. 3), India/Maurya Split (P. 4), Victoria (P. 4), Teddy (P. 8), Cleopatra (P. 8), Philip II (P. 8), and an Ayyubid Caliph (P. 10). That makes up 2/3 of the base roster with new civs or leaders. Brazil and Aztecs kept their leaders from V, so really only France, Germany, Rome, and Japan took left turns from expectations. And Scythia was just a curveball attempt at a kurgan culture.

Then, if we look at the DLC, only two new civs weren't in the top 10 most popular pages. Canada (P. 1, P. 9 with Laurier), Australia (P. 3), Scotland (P. 3, P. 4 with Robert), Mali (P. 4), Angevin Empire (kind of blobbing Francia (P. 4) and Normandy (P. 6); Eleanor is somewhere past page 10), Hungary (P. 6), Maori (P. 7), Khmer (P. 7), Phoenicia (P. 9), Cree (P. 9), Poland (everywhere), Maurya (P. 4). Nubia falls somewhere beneath P. 10 but the design very closely resembles the VI design. And Macedon seems mostly like it was included for the sake of Alexander who was already in V. Point being, the DLC selections also seemed somewhat crowdsourced from Civ V mods.

Quick disclaimer: these are the numbers as of over a year ago which might have shifted a bit, and only sorted by "most popular". I remember doing a rough check against "most subscribed"; they vary here and there but for the most part you see a lot of the same civs popping up. I also just checked and Gran Colombia is currently on page 3 of most popular.

Looking at other popular civs on steam mods, and refining it a bit from last year, let me note some things which we might see:

Top three page civs:

* The Goths. By far the most popular civ, and the most subscribed outside of Axis powers.

* Vietnam. Also one of the most popular civs, generally page 1 or 2. On the same level as Canada before it was included.

* The Inuit/Greenland. Also more popular than nearly any other civ, again page 1 or 2, and later on page 6. I think the Maori get a pass because they were a deblobbed Polynesia, but I think if the Maori didn't have the precedent of being part of a Civ V civ, no one would be seriously considering them. I think a Northern equivalent might actually happen purely because of how popular the Inuit are.

* Bulgaria and Oman. Bulgaria is quite popular, P. 3 (I just checked, P. 8 on subscribed). Oman is also popular, P. 5 (and P. 3 on subscribed). These are about as popular as Scotland and Australia. As prior new inclusions show, this doesn't rule out anything below page three, but I'd say these are the two biggest competitors remaining in the top three pages.

Sheer numerosity:

* Alternate leaders for China, Russia, and Germany. These have so many alternate leaders among the top ten pages that I'm pretty sure the devs are considering it. Seems like we will get our wish with Kublai Khan. Might eventually get something like Arminius/Bismark or Olga/Lenin.

* Finland and Afghanistan. Finland is on page one for both popularity and subscription, and appears multiple times. Afghanistan also appears multiple times in the top ten pages of both lists. While both of these feel quite comfortable as city-states, they are insanely popular, Finland especially. They could happen based purely on demand (the Saami are also within the top five pages so they might be used as a more interesting Finnish stand-in).

* Something in the Caribbean. There are a lot of Cuba and Pirates civs in the top ten pages. While I am perfectly satisfied with just the Taino city-state, the Taino don't really cover Cuba nor Buccaneers. I could see at least one more city-state, or possibly like Finland/Afghanistan a full civ if the devs think there is demand. Though maybe the Taino were intended to fill this spot.

* The Sioux, Papal States, and Jerusalem show up more than once in the top ten pages. Two of these are city-states and I don't see the Sioux happening in light of the Cree. But we might see a Soiuan city-state like Blood Run.

I admit, this is a weird list. Definitely doesn't cover my wishlist like the Timurids (P. 6) or Burma (P. 10). But if the developers have been looking toward mods as indicators of popularity (which I think they have also been doing with city-states), this is what the numbers seem to say.