[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[mitsho]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

My problem with the Vietcong is that it's only use was fighting in a war against their own people. I don't know if that's a unique unit people would want to see.

Not to mention it would be a very late game unit with limited use.

 

[Jeppetto]

If they want to go full meme territory Vietman will have camouflage land unit for the "Americans scared when the trees start speaking Vietnamese" memes.

 

[TeddyMain]

If they want to go full meme territory Vietman will have camouflage land unit for the "Americans scared when the trees start speaking Vietnamese" memes.

The "Welcome to the Rice Fields!" Achievement: Using a Vietcong unit, defeat an American Corps or Army standing on a Jungle or Marsh tile.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please get back to the topic of the thread. Meme discussion is way off topic.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

3/5 civs in NFP have 2 UUs right? What if Vietnam got Vietcong and a different, earlier UU as well

My problem with the Vietcong is that it's only use was fighting in a war against their own people. I don't know if that's a unique unit people would want to see.

iirc, the vietcong were first used against France.

And while from a literal perspective they were fighting against themselves, they ultimately were essentially used to push back the US and other powers which sought to overthrow the North Vietnamese govt and replace it (as they had in South Vietnam), so it did have an impact reminiscent of the defensive civ themes we’ve seen elsewhere.

 

[8housesofelixir]

If you want to have the Vietnam War reference, there is a Scout promotion called "Camouflage". Much better and useful than meme achievements IMO.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

3/5 civs in NFP have 2 UUs right? What if Vietnam got Vietcong and a different, earlier UU as well

Like Trung Nhi?

iirc, the vietcong were first used against France.

And while from a literal perspective they were fighting against themselves, they ultimately were essentially used to push back the US and other powers which sought to overthrow the North Vietnamese govt and replace it (as they had in South Vietnam), so it did have an impact reminiscent of the defensive civ themes we’ve seen elsewhere.

As far as I know the Vietcong was officially formed after the First Indochina war so they already achieved independence from France. That doesn't mean there weren't groups of infantry using guerilla tactics against France though.

I agree with the rest of the statement but I still am not sure if it's the best unique unit for them. If the Mong Dong plays like Civ 5's turtle ship it would be just as reminiscent of a defensive civ.

Plus I feel like it would make more sense if it was a Spec Ops replacement, in the recon line, than a standard melee infantry unit which might not be the best.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I agree with the rest of the statement but I still am not sure if it's the best unique unit for them. If the Mong Dong plays like Civ 5's turtle ship it would be just as reminiscent of a defensive civ.

Plus I feel like it would make more sense if it was a Spec Ops replacement, in the recon line, than a standard melee infantry unit which might not be the best.

I can see Trung Trac’s ability being kinda like Suleiman‘s in that we get Trung Nhi as a starting Great General and the Mon Dong as a LUU, with the Vietcong as a UU.

if it was a spec ops replacement it would be essentially useless, even more so than an infantry replacement, which is my main concern

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Like Trung Nhi?


As far as I know the Vietcong was officially formed after the First Indochina war so they already achieved independence from France. That doesn't mean there weren't groups of infantry using guerilla tactics against France though.

I agree with the rest of the statement but I still am not sure if it's the best unique unit for them. If the Mong Dong plays like Civ 5's turtle ship it would be just as reminiscent of a defensive civ.

Plus I feel like it would make more sense if it was a Spec Ops replacement, in the recon line, than a standard melee infantry unit which might not be the best.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a Vietcong UU because a sizeable portion of Vietnam's appeal is American obsession over modern warmongering and it's certainly the most resonant choice the devs could go with. But I would definitely be disappointed if the devs chose to focus on only a few decades of Vietnam as a modern underdog, where it has two milennia of history to draw from. I would prefer anything but the Vietcong.

 

[8housesofelixir]

if it was a spec ops replacement it would be essentially useless, even more so than an infantry replacement, which is my main concern

The problem with Recon class units is that they require promotions to be good but it is very hard to level them up.

If there is a civ ability that can made every Recon class units starting with both "Camouflage" and "Ambush" promotions they can be insanely strong.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I can see Trung Trac’s ability being kinda like Suleiman‘s in that we get Trung Nhi as a starting Great General and the Mon Dong as a LUU, with the Vietcong as a UU.

The Mong Dong as far as I'm aware were after the Trung Sister's time, first appearing in the Medieval Era, so it doesn't make sense as a LUU.

Anyway the Comandante General are considered a LUU for Simon Bolivar so that is why I think Trung Nhi would make a good LUU.

The problem with Recon class units is that they require promotions to be good but it is very hard to level them up.

If there is a civ ability that can made every Recon class units starting with both "Camouflage" and "Ambush" promotions they can be insanely strong.

That sounds like what the Iroquois could do. Or better yet make their melee units act like that.

 

[8housesofelixir]

That sounds like what the Iroquois could do. Or better yet make their melee units act like that.

Cree does have an unique Scout replacement that has the same combat strength as a Warrior.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Cree does have an unique Scout replacement that has the same combat strength as a Warrior.

Right. But I think the Iroquois would have a Musketman replacement with maybe something similar to ambush or some sort of promotion that recon units get.

 

[AaronTBD]

Would a North Asia civ be interesting like the Yakut, the Ainu, the Buryats, or Tuva?

 

[notNamed]

Would a North Asia civ be interesting like the Yakut, the Ainu, the Buryats, or Tuva?

My first and obvious pick are the Jurchens/Manchu. Folks have a really long and strongly influential history.
Other than that, Yakut would be my other choice. Having a Turkic nation that's not Ottomans, being Siberians and all that. The only issue with those is that you're in the Native Indian territory with them without all too many buildings, large empires or somehow well known fighting tactics/units. But I mean, we've got a boatload of Ameridnians already, so why not some Siberians as well?

Speaking of well-know things militarily Vietnamese, other than the boats and Viet Cong, they have had a good reputation with the Chinese for their muskets and jingals. Not sure how I feel about elephants. I'd have to ask 8housesofelixir to make sure, but the picture of old Vietnamese armies I currently have is one where extrapolating the elephants is basically an influence of Romance of the Three Kingdoms' stories. At least prior to the conquest of Champa (Mongols make a special note of fighting elephants when conquering Dali, but no such mention in the wars in Vietnam), since they certainly did have some elephant corps at a time, but again reduced them to baggage carriers/arena performers by the Nguyen Dynasty.

 

[Zaarin]

Would a North Asia civ be interesting like the Yakut, the Ainu, the Buryats, or Tuva?

Jurchen or Manchu might be interesting, but China would surely disapprove. If we have to have a Tundra civ, the Evenks get my vote. Yakutian horses are kind of adorable, though...

we've got a boatload of Ameridnians already

It must be a very small boat to only fit one.

The only issue with those is that you're in the Native Indian territory with them without all too many buildings, large empires or somehow well known fighting tactics/units.

The Iroquois, Eastern Algonquians, Mississippians, Five Civilized Tribes, Puebloans, PNW tribes, etc. disagree with your assessment. Not all indigenous Americans were nomadic.

 

[notNamed]

It must be a very small boat to only fit one.

But we have had literally all of them in Civ 4. https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Native_American_(Civ4)
Still, we have had Cree, Hodinoshoni, Sioux, Shoshones, Aztecs, Maya, Inca and Mapuche. And that's ignoring Civ4: Colonisation (adding Apache, Arawak, Cherokee and Tupi). Siberia hasn't had a single civ yet.

The Iroquois, Eastern Algonquians, Mississippians, Five Civilized Tribes, Puebloans, PNW tribes, etc. disagree with your assessment. Not all indigenous Americans were nomadic.

Many of the ones we've already seen covered were, however. So the people are familiar with the challenges of making a full civilisation with the stuff Civ games ask of you.

 

[Zaarin]

But we have had literally all of them in Civ 4. https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Native_American_(Civ4)

Yes, but we're talking about Civ6.

Still, we have had Cree, Hodinoshoni, Sioux, Shoshones, Aztecs, Maya, Inca and Mapuche.

Aztec and Inca don't really fit your objection, though, as they had large cities and empires; the Haudenausonee and Maya also had cities and if not empires then at least confederacies that controlled large swaths of land.

Many of the ones we've already seen covered were, however.

Only the Sioux (not in Civ6) and the semi-nomadic Mapuche and Cree, though, and I feel like they got around the non-urbanized nature of the Cree reasonably well. Any additional Native Americans we see will almost certainly be urbanized, unless we get the Navajo--but the Navajo were at least sedentary if not urbanized.

Siberia hasn't had a single civ yet.

In my opinion it doesn't need one. Civilization never really developed in Siberia because the carrying capacity of the land is too low. By contrast, sophisticated, stratified, specialized, urbanized societies did develop in Native North America. It's not really a fair comparison. I wouldn't necessarily object to a well-designed Siberian civ, but I'd find it a bit gimmicky.

 

[Jeppetto]

If you want to have the Vietnam War reference, there is a Scout promotion called "Camouflage". Much better and useful than meme achievements IMO.

I know, but all jokes aside, I would like them introducing guerilla warfare mechanic, where If the unit is fortified on Forest/Jungle tile within YOUR territory for one turn it becomes invisible unless enemy unit tries to get onto the plot or it moves and it gets like +5 Combat Strength or +10 Defense Strength for the turn it revealed itself.