[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The IRL Xanadu was more similar to the Diplo Quarter; it was dedicated to steppe and Central Asia affairs which involves a lot of diplomatic meetings between the Khan and numerous envoys.
Besides the court, envoys, and ambassadors, the Xanadu "city" didn't have much residents (the food output of the steppes around it cannot really support a city).

Considering recent unique districts don't necessarily act like the regular district counterparts, in terms of adjacency bonuses and placements, maybe a unique Xanadu Govt. Plaza has to be built away from other districts including the city center.

It's similar to Gaul but would only be for one district instead of all the specialty districts.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The IRL Xanadu was more similar to the Diplo Quarter; it was dedicated to steppe and Central Asia affairs which involves a lot of diplomatic meetings between the Khan and numerous envoys.
Besides the court, envoys, and ambassadors, the Xanadu "city" didn't have much residents (the food output of the steppes around it cannot really support a city).

What would they do if the player bought the Kublai/Vietnam pack, but not the Ethiopia pack that has the Diplo Quarter?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I'm going to throw a wild punch here and say he is going to come with a "Xanadu" unique government district.

Spawns a unique great prophet: Olivia Newton John.

 

[8housesofelixir]

What would they do if the player bought the Kublai/Vietnam pack, but not the Ethiopia pack that has the Diplo Quarter?

Yeah, that renders the Diplo-Xanadu as very unlikely. Gov. Plaza is still an option though.

 

[Jeppetto]

I don't know what MoorTires hints at but I'd find it weird If they introduced Portugal or anything from North Africa now as both are already represented, each Pack so far, including the leaked one, seems to focus on one Continent-oid and we are in dire need of Middle East Civ and Native American Tribal Civ.

But since I've been wrong about like 95% of everything, given the hint, perhaps Ethiopia counts as East Africa and what we'll get will count as West Africa or they're East Africa and North Africa or they might even count Ethiopia as leaning towards South or Center. Tbh Africa deserves some love too so it wouldn't surprise me. They could always consider Middle East over-crowded (I've seen both opinions here, that it lacks important Civ but also that it's already stacked) or simply not think Native American Tribes need more display.

If Xanadu would be GP replacement, which would explain the requirement for RF even If he would lead China too, I would also agree with it being something like "Can't be built in Capital City, renders the City it is built in Bonus Capital (doesn't count as Original Capital but yields its bonuses)". Would open new windows, more opportunities for Apadana, Diplomatic Quarter and CS benefits would get better. Plus it could be replacement If your starting position is meh.

 

[Zaarin]

With regards to seasons, I don’t care for any implementation. It doesn't fit the time scale of the game turns.

I'd be fine with it if it were just aesthetic like the day/night cycle.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Announcing Puduhepa's Hittites or Amina's Hausa in the next update would be an experience eerily similar to having an orgasm because I would certainly be ejaculating my happiness all over the place, but I believe that's mostly wishful thinking. But yes, more kick-ass women in Civ, as many as you can spare.

(and yes, more kick-ass men while you're at it but that goes without saying~)

If the Berbers are ever included, they will absolutely have a female leader. I can't think of many civs that have three excellent female leader options. (Tin Hinan, Dihya, Sayyida al-Hurrah)

I don't think the next leader will necessarily be a woman though. Vietnam could have both Trung Sisters in some capacity and the final Civ could have a female leader, even under the assumption that the November Civ will be from the Islamic Area.


but I'm sticking with my Assyrians Under Samurammat prediction

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't know what MoorTires hints at but I'd find it weird If they introduced Portugal or anything from North Africa now as both are already represented, each Pack so far, including the leaked one, seems to focus on one Continent-oid and we are in dire need of Middle East Civ and Native American Tribal Civ.

But since I've been wrong about like 95% of everything, given the hint, perhaps Ethiopia counts as East Africa and what we'll get will count as West Africa or they're East Africa and North Africa or they might even count Ethiopia as leaning towards South or Center. Tbh Africa deserves some love too so it wouldn't surprise me. They could always consider Middle East over-crowded (I've seen both opinions here, that it lacks important Civ but also that it's already stacked) or simply not think Native American Tribes need more display.

I agree that we do need another Middle East Civ and Native American civ.

However currently the only civ from North Africa that we currently have is Egypt. Plus North Africa is generally considered a separate region from the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa which is what I would consider Ethiopia representing. North Africa is much more likely to be paired together with the Middle East due to more cultural similarities. The sentiments are last game we had Morocco and well even Carthage, and right now there is a hole that can be filled.

That being said the name Moor refers to the Muslim inhabits of North Africa which seems to be pointing as a civ from there. In the Medieval Era they also inhabited and controlled Iberia which includes Portugal so it could be a reference for them too. I know we just had a European pack, however if we don't get a second season I would be surprised if Portugal doesn't make it in and Gaul was easier to pair with Byzantium.

 

[almughavar]

Remember the times when the world laughed at Germany for not being able to have any WW2 German faction/campaign or mere violence in their games? When Stalin led Russia, Mao led China and Kim Il-Sung was a famous general for Koreans? Pepperidge farm remembers. If we're not doing Hitler, Mao or Stalin because of the contemporary distaste to depicting them, we should dish this out fairly and equally not throw in random other nazis, dictators and so on we simply happen to be more sympathetic towards thanks to their other efforts and possible achievements. Within reason, of course.

Anyway, OTP. Very OTP.
You folks should be suggesting some thematically fitting Vietnamese units which aren't VietCong instead and yes, VietMing is cheating.

Vietnam's unique unit could be elephant, similar to the Elephant Artillery in Medieval 2: Total War. The Tay Son rebels (who later on established the Tay Son Dynasty) was famous for their Elephant Artillery. Other Vietnamese dynasties also employed elephants throughout history. But elephant artillery may overlap with Varu and Domrey of India and Khmer, respectively.

Another UU I could think of was a type of crossbowmen who were armed with repeating or multi-shot crossbows, or maybe crews employing a siege engine which resembling a ballista but unlike ballista it could discharge multiple crossbow bolts simultaneously instead. The repeating crossbow would resemble the "Chu Ko Nu" unit of China in Civ 4 and AoE II, though Vietnamese had invented and employed the weapon much sooner than Chinese. The multi-shot crossbow/ballista weapon is quite different, in this case it can discharge multiple bolts at once, not firing one bolt after another like the repeating crossbow. Vietnamese employed that type of weapon as far back as the time of Âu Lạc kingdom.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Looking at the Mongols sans Genghis, then have this set of bonuses:
Trading Posts produced at the initiation of a Trade Route, rather than the end
Trading Posts provide +1 additional Diplomatic Visibility
units get +3 additional combat strength (that's double) for each level of Diplomatic Visibility

From the UB: Mounted units get +1 movement

Keshigs: 4 movement ranged unit, can transfer movement to linked units, Medieval Era (Stirrups)

So, I'd say some kind of Silk Road-esque Trade Route bonus would not be out of place for Kublai. There's some synergy there. But all the +X yield to Foreign Trade Routes type abilities have been done to death. We know Kublai liked to collect dignitaries, mystics, and educated people from foreign lands (eg Marco Polo). Wouldn't it be interesting if he got Great Person Points from Trade Routes? Or maybe he gets a points boost when a Great Person is spawned in a city with a Mongol Trading Post?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So, I'd say some kind of Silk Road-esque Trade Route bonus would not be out of place for Kublai. There's some synergy there. But all the +X yield to Foreign Trade Routes type abilities have been done to death. We know Kublai liked to collect dignitaries, mystics, and educated people from foreign lands (eg Marco Polo). Wouldn't it be interesting if he got Great Person Points from Trade Routes? Or maybe he gets a points boost when a Great Person is spawned in a city with a Mongol Trading Post?

I have a feeling he might get that unused ability that was found in the game files earlier: Gains a free Eureka or Inspiration after completing a foreign trade route to a civ for the first time.
It could also synergize with China.

 

[Onii-chan]

It is almost certain that the next civ leader will be a woman, to keep up with the 1/3 ratio that has been established so far in Civ6.
Babylon and Assyria are not well known for having female leaders.
From what I see, the best candidate is Puduhepa of the Hittites.
Zenobia of Palmyra is another possible candidate, tho Palmyra seems more a city-state than an actual empire.

Maria I for Portugal? That's what we had in CIv V at least. Seems like a pretty likely candidate to me if we want to use that logic seeing as Portugal is clearly one of the biggest roster holes atm anyway

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

So, I'd say some kind of Silk Road-esque Trade Route bonus would not be out of place for Kublai. There's some synergy there. But all the +X yield to Foreign Trade Routes type abilities have been done to death. We know Kublai liked to collect dignitaries, mystics, and educated people from foreign lands (eg Marco Polo). Wouldn't it be interesting if he got Great Person Points from Trade Routes? Or maybe he gets a points boost when a Great Person is spawned in a city with a Mongol Trading Post?

Has longer trade route length, great people increase the value of trade routes to other continents...?

 

[Abaxial]

Just a passing remark for those like me who like the Hittites - there is a mod for Crusader Kings 3 for early historical eastern Med that features the Hittites.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

I want to comment on the possibility of adding Finland and its leader Mannerheim to the game:

Finland is probably a good idea as a civilization, especially as another civilization capable of effectively settling in the tundra (and maybe in the snow!). This is a very young state, of which there are so few in the game (I mean a unique unit / building)
As a Russian, I am categorically against Mennerheim. Categorically. And although I don't even live in the city of St. Petersburg.
Let me remind you that Mannerheim was Nazi accomplices and took an active part in the Siege of Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) from the north. Residents of the city know and remember this very well. And therefore, the attempt to install a memorial plaque in the city in 2016 caused the effect of an exploding bomb (comparable only to the proposal to reburial Lenin's body). After public outcry, lawsuits and vandalism, the board was dismantled.
Yes, he was a tsarist general, yes, a prominent and powerful Finnish political and military leader. But if he is added to the game and despite his services to tsarist Russia, it will inevitably cause the anger of Russian gamers, and even more so gamers from St. Petersburg

thanks

As a Polish, I am categorically against Stalin in your avatar It is kinda weird to condemn one criminal and affirm the other one, even bigger

 

[Thenewwwguy]

As a Polish, I am categorically against Stalin in your avatar It is kinda weird to condemn one criminal and affirm the other one, even bigger

and...that’s off topic..

Anyway, I liked the Hausa shout, whoever suggested that. North-Central Africa is a region we don’t really think about, and Hausa being a Afroasiatic language like Arabic, as well as it’s location north of the Sahel makes it, in my eyes, qualify as a North African civ as opposed to a West African or subsaharan one.

That said, I cant see it happening. I’d much rather see the Hittites, and I’d prefer a Mesopotamian leader anyway.

 

[cain3456]

Maria I for Portugal? That's what we had in CIv V at least. Seems like a pretty likely candidate to me if we want to use that logic seeing as Portugal is clearly one of the biggest roster holes atm anyway

Except Maria I was almost universally derided as a horrible choice for leader on the Civ V boards. Even if Portugal comes back, which I'm not seeing, she won't.

 

[Zaarin]

Hausa being a Afroasiatic language like Arabic, as well as it’s location north of the Sahel makes it, in my eyes, qualify as a North African civ as opposed to a West African or subsaharan one.

Even though it's been Muslim for quite some time, the Sahel is really more Sub-Saharan than North African. Also, the bulk of Afroasiatic languages--Chadic, Cuѕhitic, Omotic--are Sub-Saharan, albeit the one's most universally agreed to be related--Berber, Egyptian, Semitic--are not. (Well, I say that, but a substantial number of Semitic languages are spoken in Sub-Saharan Africa, and while there is no consensus on the Semitic homeland an increasing number of scholars put it in Ethiopia/Eritrea rather than Yemen). Also worth noting that Hausa and Arabic are not closely related, if they're related at all (generally speaking, the further afield you go in Afroasiatic, the more controversial it becomes: Semitic-Egyptian-Berber is almost universally accepted; then comes Cuѕhitic, which is generally accepted; then Chadic, like Hausa, which is where the skepticism starts; and many scholars have serious doubts about Omotic, especially as these languages are under-studied and poorly understood). Some scholars reject the family entirely, but IMO what you might call "Core Afroasiatic" (Berber, Egyptian, Semitic) is on pretty solid footing, with the chief question being whether Berber and Egyptian form a clade or Egyptian and Semitic form a clade or if all three are equidistant. (Arguments grouping Berber and Semitic are almost all based on a very faulty attempt to place the Semitic homeland in Morocco, which has virtually no archaeological or linguistic support.)

Except Maria I was almost universally derided as a horrible choice for leader on the Civ V boards. Even if Portugal comes back, which I'm not seeing, she won't.

It's my understanding that many historians are rehabilitating her image and that scholarly consensus is that she's not as bad as she's been portrayed. That being said, I'm dubious she'd be chosen again. Maria II would probably be a better choice except that Portugal was pretty irrelevant by her time.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Except Maria I was almost universally derided as a horrible choice for leader on the Civ V boards. Even if Portugal comes back, which I'm not seeing, she won't.

I can possibly see her only if Portugal is to come in NFP now that we've passed up Theodora as a possibility and we only have Lady Six Sky as a female leader. She definitely wouldn't be my preference though.

 

[Jkchart]

Even though it's been Muslim for quite some time, the Sahel is really more Sub-Saharan than North African. Also, the bulk of Afroasiatic languages--Chadic, Cuѕhitic, Omotic--are Sub-Saharan, albeit the one's most universally agreed to be related--Berber, Egyptian, Semitic--are not. (Well, I say that, but a substantial number of Semitic languages are spoken in Sub-Saharan Africa, and while there is no consensus on the Semitic homeland an increasing number of scholars put it in Ethiopia/Eritrea rather than Yemen). Also worth noting that Hausa and Arabic are not closely related, if they're related at all (generally speaking, the further afield you go in Afroasiatic, the more controversial it becomes: Semitic-Egyptian-Berber is almost universally accepted; then comes Cuѕhitic, which is generally accepted; then Chadic, like Hausa, which is where the skepticism starts; and many scholars have serious doubts about Omotic, especially as these languages are under-studied and poorly understood). Some scholars reject the family entirely, but IMO what you might call "Core Afroasiatic" (Berber, Egyptian, Semitic) is on pretty solid footing, with the chief question being whether Berber and Egyptian form a clade or Egyptian and Semitic form a clade or if all three are equidistant. (Arguments grouping Berber and Semitic are almost all based on a very faulty attempt to place the Semitic homeland in Morocco, which has virtually no archaeological or linguistic support.)


It's my understanding that many historians are rehabilitating her image and that scholarly consensus is that she's not as bad as she's been portrayed. That being said, I'm dubious she'd be chosen again. Maria II would probably be a better choice except that Portugal was pretty irrelevant by her time.

RE: Maria I, I’ve also seen more positivity than negativity in modern conception. She’s apparently pretty fondly remembered both in Portugal and Brazil and is even considered key in Brazil’s independence by some. Was she the BEST choice for Portugal in Civ V? Probably not. But we have had way worse or dubious choices than Maria I.