[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Oh and Arabia!
There's no such thing as one single Arabia ever in history or in the modern times :undecide:
Well, the Abbasids had the whole peninsula, and a large part of the crescent and levant, as well as parts of turkey, persia, and north africa, so...
I'm fairly sure that counts.
 
Since Civs in NFP only require vanilla Civ 6 to play and Diplomatic victory was only added in GS, I think those Civs were designed without Diplomatic Victory in mind.

OTOH, they haven't shied away from giving civs additional bonuses under different rule sets in NFP. So they might introduce a civ that has part of its bonuses for a Diplo Victory if you have GS.
 
They seriously need to deblob civs like Indonesia and India in the next iteration of the game..
I'm not sure what is wrong with Indonesia? Unless you mean make a modern Indonesia separate from a Majapahit civ.

and Korea... right now Korea is just a weird fusion of Silla and Chosen.
In that case let's make the Holy Roman Empire, Prussia, Austria and Germany for civ 7. :mischief:
I don't see a reason to de-blob civs like Korea. Of course I don't see these as blobs really anyway.

Oh and Arabia!
There's no such thing as one single Arabia ever in history or in the modern times :undecide:
Spoiler :

The Arabian world was united in the Medieval Era such as the Ummayad Caliphate shown above.
 
Arabia is a civ I'd love to be deblobbed at some point though I think it's unlikely it'll happen, certainly not before India. I just think it opens up more interesting game possibilities if you separated them rather than kept them together and creates more potential Muslim civs. Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid, Mamluk, etc could allow more nuanced representation of the region than is currently possible.
Of course whether or not these would be accepted by the community as worthy civs or not is another question :lol:
 
Sure, they would. I expect a big revision on how civs work for the next game. Being able to show more facets of "the Arabs", but also of "England" seems like an overall benefit for the game.
 
Arabia is a civ I'd love to be deblobbed at some point though I think it's unlikely it'll happen, certainly not before India. I just think it opens up more interesting game possibilities if you separated them rather than kept them together and creates more potential Muslim civs. Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid, Mamluk, etc could allow more nuanced representation of the region than is currently possible.
Of course whether or not these would be accepted by the community as worthy civs or not is another question :lol:
To me the best solution is to ideally have at least different leaders for each of those civs representing the different dynasties especially Arabia and China. I would argue India as well but there's a possibility that you could have a separate Mughal civ from India at least basing it around Lahore.
 
It wouldn't hurt to give Arabia extra leaders, but honestly I don't think they're a high priority for de-blobbing. The Arabic-speaking Islamic world was highly unified culturally during the Middle Ages. I'd much rather see an Islamic Persian civ added than see Arabia split. Likewise I don't think civ really needs Silla and Joseon as separate civs--certainly not in a game where the HRE, the German Empire, and the German Republic are all the same civ, where royal France, Imperial France, revolutionary France, all the French republics, and maybe even Francia are the same civ, where China from Qin to PRC are the same civ, etc.
 
Oh for sure it's not priority, this is purely my own preferences. It's an "if I had a civ game I'd do it this way" thing.
 
Finland has yet to make an appearance in a civ game, so perhaps we can someday get that?

Viipuri was Finland's 2nd largest city before the Soviets stole it in 1939-40, so Firaxis could do a pre WW2 version of Finland, when Karelia was still part of Finland.
 
Finland has yet to make an appearance in a civ game, so perhaps we can someday get that? Viipuri was Finland's 2nd largest city before the Soviets stole it in 1939-40, so Firaxis could do a pre WW2 version of Finland, when Karelia was still part of Finland.

A random thought after seeing the Finland civ idea: Many civs in the real life are not interested in massive expanding for a lot of reasons - Finland is one of them - but in the game almost every civ love to plop their cities in literally everywhere, and will attack other civs or CS in order to gain more land. Even AI Mayas, with a big anti-expansion penalty, will sometimes found a city across the globe in a tundra.

That is one of the immersion-breaking thing to me. If every civ behaves like IRL Huns or Vikings in terms of invasion and land grabbing, a "small but prosperous" civ can lost its unique flavor.
 
I wouldn't rule out Finland at some point in the franchise's future. That being said, while I have far from anything against Finland itself, and as I believe they have been discussed here before, I'd like to reiterate that it would be a decision I personally wouldn't be entirely happy with.

I believe it would result in a missed opportunity to include a more unique and interesting Finnic representative, the Sámi. Not to imply that Finland is bland; the uniqueness I refer to derives from the Sámi being a traditionally nomadic indigenous people (which I think could open for more interesting abilities), while Finland, like the vast majority of the other European civs, is currently and/or has history of being an established, sovereign state.

Or they could include both, which I would be fine with, but Firaxis devoting time to another two civs in the Nordic region - which would make four in total - is something I consider very unlikely.
 
A random thought after seeing the Finland civ idea: Many civs in the real life are not interested in massive expanding for a lot of reasons - Finland is one of them - but in the game almost every civ love to plop their cities in literally everywhere, and will attack other civs or CS in order to gain more land. Even AI Mayas, with a big anti-expansion penalty, will sometimes found a city across the globe in a tundra.

That is one of the immersion-breaking thing to me. If every civ behaves like IRL Huns or Vikings in terms of invasion and land grabbing, a "small but prosperous" civ can lost its unique flavor.

Having interests in expanding is not necessarily the same thing as actually being able to carry that out. In the case of Finland, it's more like they are simply incapable of doing so, instead of not interested in that at all. Finland did try to invade and annex Soviet territory in the "Heimosodat" period, but failed: Heimosodat - Wikipedia
 
Having interests in expanding is not necessarily the same thing as actually being able to carry that out. In the case of Finland, it's more like they are simply incapable of doing so, instead of not interested in that at all. Finland did try to invade and annex Soviet territory in the "Heimosodat" period, but failed: Heimosodat - Wikipedia

On the other hand, even "Greater Finland" is basically about the territories inhabited by Finns and Karelians - tj which is still far away from "plop a city in the middle of the arctic". I would say I'm more complaining about an AI behavior problem here.
 
On the other hand, even "Greater Finland" is basically about the territories inhabited by Finns and Karelians - tj which is still far away from "plop a city in the middle of the arctic". I would say I'm more complaining about an AI behavior problem here.

Nations usually try to cling to as much territory as they could before they have to give it up, and I think Finland is not an exception.

Using game mechanics to explain: because Finland started in, as well as being surrounded by tundra and lake tiles with poor food yield, very limited choice of tile improvements, which resulted in cities of Finns not being able to gain population fast enough to build settlers and settling cities. Meanwhile other civs simply had larger population and was able to expand rapidly in the past, leaving little in terms of unclaimed territory left for Finland to settle.
 
On the other hand, even "Greater Finland" is basically about the territories inhabited by Finns and Karelians - tj which is still far away from "plop a city in the middle of the arctic". I would say I'm more complaining about an AI behavior problem here.

Finns and Karelians are essentially the same thing in my book, as the Kalevala is the basis for the Finnish identity, which largely comes from the Karelian region. Although, Karelia was later lost to the Soviets. The Finns lost their 2nd largest city to the Soviets and 10% of the population was forced to evacuate to other areas of Finland.

25% of my ancestry comes from the areas lost to the Soviets in 1939-1940, and folks from Karelia considered themselves Finns just like the rest of the country.
 
and Korea... right now Korea is just a weird fusion of Silla and Chosen.
eh, i don’t think Korea has to be deblobbed, and i think, especially with dynastic civs like Korea, it’s better that some abilities are picked up from various points in the history of the civ, so I don’t really have complaints about Korea’s design.

I’d like to see a Religious/Industrial Japan led by Meiji in a future game though, the current all-rounder Japan with a warlord leader is fun but we’ve had it for a while now (since before we had Oda and Tokugawa, and now Hojo as well), would mix things up and make them a bit more interesting. Also, I don’t think any leader of Japan has ever focused especially on Shinto and Meiji would be opportune in that respect.
Lol imagine Ho Chi Minh with a unique Infantry unit of his own who is super duper cheap to maintain and can dig trenches and tunnels and invisible in marshes and woods and rainforests, just to bring those 'Nam flashbacks.

Or something like this, a unit with an active ability that allows them to remain permanently invisible and cannot be detected as long as they stay in neutral territories and not adjacent to another civ's border. Deal extra damage when attacking out of invisibility. They cannot and cannot go back into invisibility for 10 turns after receiving damage from a non-Barbarian unit.
Vietnam led by Ho Chi Minh could have the water puppet theatre as UI, the vietnamese version of the Turtle Ship as UU, and Vietcong as a weaker but much cheaper Infantry replacement unit which can make farms and have better vision in jungle

Arabia is a civ I'd love to be deblobbed at some point though I think it's unlikely it'll happen, certainly not before India. I just think it opens up more interesting game possibilities if you separated them rather than kept them together and creates more potential Muslim civs. Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid, Mamluk, etc could allow more nuanced representation of the region than is currently possible.
Of course whether or not these would be accepted by the community as worthy civs or not is another question :lol:
Arabia is a civ that I can see having a good argument for de blobbing but doesn’t necessarily need it. At the very least, a central Arabia civ + peripheral civs like Al-Andalus and Oman would be fun.

India is, in my mind, the number one candidate for deblobbing. Split it up into Maurya, Chola, Mughals and if you really want, modern India, and you’re set.

Number 2 for deblobbing, imo, is Persia, into Achaemenid and Qajar/Safavid at the very least. Maybe a Persia/Iran dichotomy.

Third would be maybe Russia, with USSR, Russian Empire and Kievan Rus or Muscovy civ’s

Civs like China, Korea, Japan, Germany and Arabia, Russia and Persia (if they’re not deblobbed), with very different cultural periods over time under different empires that function differently would be best served with 2-3 leaders.

India can’t be represented as well in that sense since it was never a really unified thing until the British came, and it’s empires were culturally, linguistically and ocassionally religiously disparate.
It wouldn't hurt to give Arabia extra leaders, but honestly I don't think they're a high priority for de-blobbing. The Arabic-speaking Islamic world was highly unified culturally during the Middle Ages. I'd much rather see an Islamic Persian civ added than see Arabia split. Likewise I don't think civ really needs Silla and Joseon as separate civs--certainly not in a game where the HRE, the German Empire, and the German Republic are all the same civ, where royal France, Imperial France, revolutionary France, all the French republics, and maybe even Francia are the same civ, where China from Qin to PRC are the same civ, etc.
i agree with all of this
 
For the most people, the devs should just pick ONE incarnation of the Civ and stick with it. Choose Joseon or Silla or Goryo and that is your Korea for the game. This should be the approach for most Civs: Egypt, China, Arabia, they should all just have one "face" per installment, and that should determine their bonuses. That makes them versatile, which is fun.

Some civs will always wear one particular face and I don't mind if we get a second leader there - I have nothing against France and Frankia, against Rome and Byzantium, against Russia and Kievan Rus, against Persia and Parthia, against Athens and Sparta, or against England and Great Britain/Scotland/Mercia/Wessex.

I personally agree that India is the first country which should be de-blobbed - India is culturally divergent and lumping the myriad of ethnic groups into one whole, even if that's the present state of India as we now know it, is a bit... stretching, I would say. But that would require Firaxis to trash Nuclear Gandhi, of course....
 
Number 2 for deblobbing, imo, is Persia, into Achaemenid and Qajar/Safavid at the very least. Maybe a Persia/Iran dichotomy.

Third would be maybe Russia, with USSR, Russian Empire and Kievan Rus or Muscovy civ’s
I still think having multiple leaders would solve the issues of representing various parts of Persia and Russia would be better than making them into different civs.
One reason is today people in Iran consider themselves Persians.

I personally agree that India is the first country which should be de-blobbed - India is culturally divergent and lumping the myriad of ethnic groups into one whole, even if that's the present state of India as we now know it, is a bit... stretching, I would say. But that would require Firaxis to trash Nuclear Gandhi, of course....
As I've said above I think it's possible at least for a separate Mughal civ based around Lahore to co-exist alongside India.
 
I still think having multiple leaders would solve the issues of representing various parts of Persia and Russia would be better than making them into different civs.
One reason is today people in Iran consider themselves Persians.


As I've said above I think it's possible at least for a separate Mughal civ based around Lahore to co-exist alongside India.

If they went with Babur, the founder, they could set it up around Kabul.
 
As I've said above I think it's possible at least for a separate Mughal civ based around Lahore to co-exist alongside India.
it’s also fairly easy for this to happen with the Chola, probsbly easier than the mughals as there’d be almost no city list overlap (the only city that would have to be replaced on india’s city list would be Tanjore/Thanjavur)

Even if for the Mughals, Lahore was picked over Agra/Fatepur Sikri, you’d have so much city list overlap, and it wouldn’t be historically representative to only pick Mughal cities outside of India
 
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