[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Equilin]

I really don't think an arbitrary map type should dictate Civ selection. TSL is only barely supported by the game anyway.

What I thought is that TSL does not refer to actual TSL map, but to a dev statement somewhere back that they try to spread the civs to be from different places in the world

 

[Thenewwwguy]

What I thought is that TSL does not refer to actual TSL map, but to a dev statement somewhere back that they try to spread the civs to be from different places in the world

This

 

[bite]

Also I have discovered a wide range of civilisations that I didn't know existed because Civ took a wide view of the term civilisation.

For example the empires of the Niger River basin (Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Dendi, Morocco etc).

So I am happy if they go broad.

 

[bbbt]

I'd agree Kublai seems like the most likely alt.

But if there isn't another North American Indian civ coming in the frontier pass, perhaps they are actually giving an alt to the Cree. As Poundmaker represents the Iron Confederacy/Plains Cree, they could say bring in a leader representing the Woodland Cree or similar to spread the area a bit.

Granted, I'm not sure they want to reopen that again on the PR front, and I'm not really sure who'd they pair them with in the pack.

 

[DWilson]

I don't. I don't like any of the postcolonial nations, but of all of them Australia's my least favorite. I appreciate that it's on its own DLC, though; that means I can keep it disabled and all I lose is Uluru.

I'm pretty sure you could use a mod to disable/block the civ from spawning without losing Uluru.

 

[Haig]

Pack #3: Adds two new civilizations and leaders, one new game mode**, new World Wonders, and one new map.

Pack #6:Adds one new civilization and leader, one new game mode, new World Wonders, and one new map.

Pack #3 is giving a new map, like #6. These are not map scripts, as those are reported to be given in the months between DLCs in free content, so it's probably an area of world.

We already have maps of Europe, whole world and Eastern Asia.

When taking account some of the more probable civs these packs include, I think that #3 has map a middle-east map that would include Boshporus, and the civs would be Byzantine and Assyria. I think I read that Sumeria civ includes Babylonian city-names so I think it makes Assyria more likely?

#6 has a new map, it could be North America, but as the DLC includes new World Wonders I dont think that area is the case. I bet it will be a Portugal DLC and the map is of Africa, that the Portuguese navigated and planted their Feitorias in.

Moderator Action: post moved

 

[Socrates-]

I bet it will be a Portugal DLC and the map is of Africa, that the Portuguese navigated and planted their Feitorias in.

Would be cool! Aside from a Portugese discovery scenario you could also use it to reenact the 'scramble for Africa' with several European civs!

Aside from this, how likely will it be that the development-team will do a series of let's play/deep dives streams like the ones with R&F and GS? I'm not that familiar with streaming services, is it possible to host something while working in separated places and keeping a good quality? (I did like the announcement video the team made from their home btw. )

 

[luigilime]

I honestly prefer Siam over Vietnam.
Siam and Ethiopia are the uncolonized duo. Should be staple for just that.
And also thai kingdoms were more of a player in south east asia than Vietnam, since the vietnamese were pretty much always under the chinese influence or control.
I know Siam and Khmer are similar but still.
If theres going to be a second pass in the future, though it's unlikely, my two top choices are morocco and Siam, the two i think leave a big hole in the world map together with the native north american tribes.
I believe in the prediction someone already said regarding this seasonal pass: the pattern is going to be the same as the other expansions.
So we're going to have: Gran Colombia, Maya, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Babylon, Byzantium, Portugal and Italy

 

[Patine]

It was one chief with a political agenda, though. I really don't think it affected Firaxis except insofar as it may have drawn some publicity for Rise & Fall as well as for the Cree chief's case.

Firaxis definitely learned that with their experience with some of Poundmaker's descendants.

Plus, while being Poundmaker's descendants may give some say and leverage about how HE is portrayed, as a leader, the fact is, there is no unified leadership or cultural voice for the Cree as a whole. I live in Edmonton, in Central Alberta, in the very thick of Cree Country. I know many Treaty Status Cree - including my own girlfriend of an almost 20-year-relationship. Each individual Cree First Nation (and there's between 70-80 across Canada, and 4 or 5 in Montana and North Dakota) has it's own chief, it's council of elders, it's own treaty privileges and rights, and it's own self-government bylaws. Although pan-Cree cultural conferences are held from time to time, there is no higher and binding authority in the Cree ethnic governing framework to make decisions with any unilateral authority for, say, the portrayal of Cree, as an ethnicity and culture, as a whole, in a computer game.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I honestly prefer Siam over Vietnam.
Siam and Ethiopia are the uncolonized duo. Should be staple for just that.
And also thai kingdoms were more of a player in south east asia than Vietnam, since the vietnamese were pretty much always under the chinese influence or control.
I know Siam and Khmer are similar but still.
If theres going to be a second pass in the future, though it's unlikely, my two top choices are morocco and Siam, the two i think leave a big hole in the world map together with the native north american tribes.
I believe in the prediction someone already said regarding this seasonal pass: the pattern is going to be the same as the other expansions.
So we're going to have: Gran Colombia, Maya, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Babylon, Byzantium, Portugal and Italy

that’s more predicted european countries than any of the previous expansions or dlc have offered. I doubt you’ll see all three.

Siam was literally a branch off of the Khmer empire. The thai date of independence is when the Sukothai kingdom split off from the Khmer Empire. I see them becoming alternating staples, like Songhai and Mali, perhaps, simply for that reason.

Knowing that you’ve predicted too many european countries, I’d say that instead of Italy, we’ll see either the Timurids or Phillippines

 

[cvb]

On the topic of the DLL & maybe grasping at straws, I still see some positive development from the old "we have not made a decision yet" ...
In the Interview with Anton Strenger (https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/civ-6-new-season-pass-details): "At this time we don’t have plans to release the DLL source code."

I interpret that as a decision was made to not release the DLL source code during the new-season-pass, ie. not until next March.

They accentuate a surprise being imminent.
"In addition to these six DLC drops, we’ll also be deploying six additional free updates for all Civilization VI players. These updates will include balance changes and free content, among other surprises, so look out for those in-between DLC releases."
Civilization VI - Developer Update - New Frontier Pass Anton @2:35: "We hope that you enjoy all the things that we're planning to bring you guys ... and we think you'll be pleasantly surprised by a couple of them."

What can the biggest surprise be? I confess, after civ4&5 I took it for granted, which it is not: DLLsources release is an unusual rarity in the games industry.

Maybe they could say "at the end of the development cycle we are going to release the DLL source code" as they could have said last autumn "we are working on a significant amount of additional content due early summer" - which they preferred to do not, so ...

On the topic of the DLL: I do think people are right to connect it too the longevity of the game. Its amazing Firaxis is putting so much effort into Civ VI and I am looking forward to what they are going too add. But one day Firaxis is going to move on. Its inevitable. They are a business after all and they need to make money.
A DLL release will allow the community to 'take over' in a way, once the developers have moved on and allows the community to continue to tweak, update and discuss the game. There are some fantastic and huge mods for civ v and civ iv that are the result of hours and hours of discussions about game mechanics/balance/AI competitivness etc. They are truly incredible experiences that fix the last few remaining issues the games have after the developers have moved on and also tighten the mechanics.
[...]
I'm still going to buy it, play it and most likely, thoughrally enjoy it. But in the long term Civ VI is going too eventually die. And that's heartbreaking

I wholeheartedly agree: when Firaxis one day stops supporting civ6, only modders with the essential DLL sources in hand can (try to) handle upcoming issues like the pantheon exploit for multiplayer or squash some annoying little bugs still being contained.

THE other point is the AI aspect. I understand why they cannot invest "endless" time like some of us do, because it is their hobby. I have fond memories of BBAI (betterBeyondtheSwordAI). Siesta Guru, Infixo et al could bring wonders for civ6 ... if they would be let.

Insofar the potential of "the" source code, "my precious", "our unique asset" is overvalued especially by commercial beholders - software developers have seen enough code in their life to know that there is few to snoop out.
Often it is better in a company to develop new code from scratch than to maintain longer the OWN old code - let alone some complex code of others.

So: with civ6 source code you can ... maintain, debug, AI-improve ... civ6 gameplay!
I doubt the makers of Humankind or Old World are really interested in those sources.

And denying the sources to the civ-community feels to me like a proper shot in the foot.

Especially if the competition has an different approach towards customers:

No you're not missing anything. Why do 4X games always leave out the "you just built X" notification LOL? Remember in Civ VI that wasn't even put in until after release. Hopefully that doesn't happen here.

Fixed in today's patch.

Btw, a very informative video by Sullla YouTube Channel:
Old World Early Access Stream: Egypt Part One



PS. quote of the day: I'm unsure I want to continue modding for a game that doesn't want to be modded.

 

[Haig]

And now they want you to pay for the content that is not done yet. No communication with the community at all etc. Is this how you develop a game?

Are you yet aware that you do not have to buy the whole thing, you can also buy the 6 DLCs separately.

If you buy them together, you only save like 2 dollars.

That way people can choose the packs that interest them.

Its all in the press release at civilization.com

P.S. if you do not like 2K Games, I wonder why you seem so positive for Sega releasing Humankind. The release of Rome 2 TW was probably the most horrible and rushed I have seen in all of gaming.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Ottomans have Romanian and Bosnian cities as part of their name list. Strange decision, I think.

Perfectly reasonable decision. Sarajevo and Targoviste were both important cities in the Ottoman empire, makes sense to include them under the Ottoman name.

Same with Hungary, which has cities from Romania (Koloszvar, Temeszvar) and Croatia (Zagrab) in its list. If Austria make it, in, you can expect names such as Pressburg (Bratislava) on their list as well.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Pack #3: Adds two new civilizations and leaders, one new game mode**, new World Wonders, and one new map.

Pack #6:Adds one new civilization and leader, one new game mode, new World Wonders, and one new map.

Pack #3 is giving a new map, like #6. These are not map scripts, as those are reported to be given in the months between DLCs in free content, so it's probably an area of world.

We already have maps of Europe, whole world and Eastern Asia.

When taking account some of the more probable civs these packs include, I think that #3 has map a middle-east map that would include Boshporus, and the civs would be Byzantine and Assyria. I think I read that Sumeria civ includes Babylonian city-names so I think it makes Assyria more likely?

#6 has a new map, it could be North America, but as the DLC includes new World Wonders I dont think that area is the case. I bet it will be a Portugal DLC and the map is of Africa, that the Portuguese navigated and planted their Feitorias in.

Moderator Action: post moved

I was thinking similarly that the map types might provide a clue - though I suggested a Mediterranean map for Pack 3 with Byzantium and Italy, and Mesopotamia for Pack 6 with Babylon. I thought Portugal might come in Pack 4 but that could easily not be the case, and I really like your Africa/feitorias suggestion, especially if it comes with a trade/colonisation game mode. But either or both of us could be wrong!

 

[Kimiimaro]

But why include Austria without Maria Theresa?

Because then you can include Austria with Joseph II

 

[Siptah]

Because then you can include Austria with Joseph II

Joseph II? What do you gain by that? For Franz Joseph, you at least gain style points.
Wouldn't Charles V be the obvious pick for Austria (and a co-leader for Spain [and even the Netherlands where he spent most of his life] )?

 

[blackcatatonic]

But why include Austria without Maria Theresa?

There's always Empress Elisabeth...

*tumbleweed*

...anyone? No?

I'll Sisi my way out

 

[Kimiimaro]

Joseph II? What do you gain by that? For Franz Joseph, you at least gain style points.
Wouldn't Charles V be the obvious pick for Austria (and a co-leader for Spain [and even the Netherlands where he spent most of his life] )?

Joseph was a fascinating ruler when it comes to his embracement of the enlightenment ideas, being one of the most, if not the most enlightened leader of his time, issuing about 6000 reforms in his 10 years of reign, which equates to about two reforms made every day (though some were outright strange as well as unpopular, like his ban of coffins to prevent wasting woods), his most important being abolition of serfdom and issuing partial religious tolerance (he wasn't a great friend to the church himself, which was why he abolished all monasteries that did not provide either education or medical help). A great number of those reforms were eventually abolished as he fell ill, but that still doesn't make him any less interesting persona. And could translate into policy play in game

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

@Socrates- watch the paradoxgames stream in 2 or 3 hours . they show how it can be done. i am a big fan of how they show the Devs play a massive multiplayer game and i sincerely hope that firaxis adopts that ( QAs etc all welcome ) . It shows how the devs see the game what they consider strong and what they try to accomplish in the game etc. best part of the firaxis videos for me personnaly was watching them play and explain anyway.

 

[Socrates-]

@Socrates- watch the paradoxgames stream in 2 or 3 hours . they show how it can be done. i am a big fan of how they show the Devs play a massive multiplayer game and i sincerely hope that firaxis adopts that ( QAs etc all welcome ) . It shows how the devs see the game what they consider strong and what they try to accomplish in the game etc. best part of the firaxis videos for me personnaly was watching them play and explain anyway.

Thanks for the tip! I'll try to tune in. Completely agree with enjoying seeing the devs play. Always fun to hear them talk about their own game (i know it's marketing driven, but nonetheless gave me a good vibe and immersion for Civ 6).

Hopefully we'll get to see Carl again