[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. AntSou

    AntSou Deity

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    I had forgotten about that post!

    I would also like to point out, just as curiosity, that we just so happen to use language this way. We could have just as well gone in the opposite direction, that is:

    Rome is asymmetrical because it differentiates itself from the "blank Civ" by using bonuses only, that is, the changes go in a single, positive, direction.

    Mali is symmetrical because the changes from a "blank Civ" go in both directions. They're both positive and negative.
    ---

    I don't know why we started using language this way. I suspect it might be because it's easier to associate Symmetry with Positive and Good. Therefore a Civ with maluses would be "asymmetric". Maybe?

    I'll just refer to them as Malus Civs from now on. Since all Civs have bonuses, a Malus Civ is one with bonuses and maluses. Problem solved.
    __________

    Anyway, I spent waaaaay too much time on this and now I have a ton of accumulated work to do, which means I won't be able to play the new update as early as I hoped :cringe:
     
  2. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    I personally just hope that in Civ 7, every Civilization will be capable of doing something that no other Civ can. It can be something small, like Canada's Surprise War immunity or Ottomans's extra governor, or something significant like the entire Maori set of bonuses.

    I also would like to see these things incorporated in the base game civs. Have a civ with a completely different Amenity system, or who has different rules w/r/t religion. Have a civ who has different promotion trees, Civs with different rules to what cities they may settle and conquer. Look at the game mechanics you are going to incorporate, and think of an alternative, lateral way to reprogram it for one specific Civ.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  3. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    I advocate for this.
     
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  4. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    having unique tech trees would be really interesting
     
  5. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    Africa has a deep and marvelous and tremendous and HIGHLY OBSCURE history. There is very little information on what happened in medieval Africa compared to what we know about European history; we have very few sources. Really, though, I'd love to see more Africans, like, oh, for instance the Sao. No idea who would lead them and what their unique features would be.

    The problem really is this - is Civ a game about civilisations (which may be post-colonial) or about tribes that might be kicking around in 3000 BC and might or might not develop into powerful nations? Every time a native culture is added, it would be sensible to delete a post-colonial one. If two more N American tribes are added, then really Canada and the USA should be deleted. Also, as for "adopting European customs", remember that the game FORCES every native culture to adopt European customs. That's implicit in the tech tree and civic tree which are based on European history, and not at all fair to non-European cultures.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  6. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    A unique tech tree would be interesting for a Native American or Nomadic Civ. Maybe not exclusive to one Civilization, but a set of them.

    Logistically, you could have an expansion of 8 non-urbanized civs from all around the globe (examples: Scythia, Mongols, Navajo, Taino, Zulu, Goths, idk, just some examples), and all eight of them share a separate tech (simplified) tree compared to the "urbanized" civilizations forgoing advanced sciences but gaining techs that improve their combat and yields. Making them less about settling and building, but more about making the most of the map, bargaining with neutral players such as Barbs and City States, and driving out the more "Civilized" entities from their lands.

    I think that would be... quite fun, actually?
     
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  7. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Like CK III's Cultural Innovations.
     
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  8. BuchiTaton

    BuchiTaton Warlord

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    I would love to have a CIV7 with regional groups of civs with different techs, eras, districs, units, etc. But is very unlikely to change on CIV series (like I dislike the leader focus). Maybe on a similar game.

    This idea of different regional groups could even help to justify less eurocentrism, since most of the current on game "civs" are not true civilizations but very expecific nations/states/governments. Europe is basicaly one or two civilizations (west and east) in the make since late classical to medieval time, yes descentralized and with regional flavor, but is absurd to have on game two germanic protestant colonial nations that could be on design more different between them than any of them to a native american tribal civ or to a far east empire.

    Make a group of Central Asia nomad civs with therir own eras, mechanics, units, etc. And then you could justify more civs that would use variations of that gameplay (Scythians, Huns, Turks, Mongols, etc.)
     
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  9. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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    Oh yeah I used to play on the exact same NQ group back in the glory days of Civ V! Lmao I was actually one of those poor sods that rolled Venice and had to play entire MP game as them (My teammates refused to yield to a reroll...got unlucky as they all got some great civs XD). I did ok early on due to some luck but we all lost to an Arabian domination victory. But I behind the whole game and there was literally nothing I could because Venice. Iroquois were the same way with the longhouse that was an automatic loss considering how insanely crucial production (And getting workshops online) was in the Civ V meta.

    LOL RIP FilthyRobot's civ videos. I wish he'd continue with Civ VI but alas...it's not his game. Him and many of my friends left after Civ VI dropped and it always frustrated me. I think that Civ VI doesnt have the robust MP scene that Civ V had by a long shot which is a damn shame...most people and streamers just play on diety as SP which...is meh IMO. But Civ VI works better as a SP game due to the lack of streamlining the more robust and complex systems. Pros and cons...
     
  10. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    More or less what I was getting at. You could have a tech tree and a civic tree for tribal peoples and another one for civilised nations. But you would also need separate victory conditions. For instance, the idea of converting the world to one religion is totally alien to most tribes. "Victory" would be remaining static and living in harmony with Nature.
     
  11. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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  12. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    I was thinking more in the direction of EU4's Westernization mechanics. At a certain point your tribe needs to make the switch to the urbanized tech tree for survival and a chance to win a million dollars Civilization 7.
     
  13. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    That too. A mixture of them: You get to keep your culture's unique bonuses while also taking technologies and civics other Civilizations will research like Pottery and Animal Husbandry.
     
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  14. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    totally agree, and reflecting things like the fact that math and astronomy were first developed by India, Egypt and Babylon, then spreading elsewhere, being adopted and modified would be interesting (although the tech tree would have to be a bit more in depth). Likewise, Mongols and other central asians should have very early access to horseback riding. This would be like a more in-depth version of the civ 3/4 thing where certain civs started with certain techs.

    This could also tie into regional/cultural abilities.


    I don’t think this is a bad idea but they’d have to be careful about doing this with indigenous people civs. I’d also like paths to victory which allow indigenous nations to keep their cultural heritage over being forced to westernize for overwhelming bonuses, but that’s my take on this

    having nomadic tech trees could also actually make options like the ainu, saami and inuit make sense in the conceptualization of civ, as long as gameplay becomes more flexible to allow for hyper-wide play (tiny cities which are still productive and can be spaced closer together)


    i can’t see nomadic civs working as long as districts take up an entire tile on the overlay. We’ve discussed this many times but reducing cities to one tile once again, but making adjacency bonuses something that happens on an internal level inside the city would be really interesting (you zoom in to place districts within the 1-tile city)

    This also fixes map scale, bcs at present way too much land in relation to cities is urbanized and developed, which makes the map look covered in cities and wilderness is sparse. There’s also no way to make developing on rainforest or forest harder past the ancient era, when even to this day we can’t drive from North America to South America because certain parts of Northern Colombia are untraversable.

    i hope tech exchange becomes something more broadly focused upon later. Right now it’s so mechanical...just espionage or trade. But why does having a neighbor study something not give you a bonus towards it (perhaps you actively learn that tech at a quarter of the rate? That would be cool)

    I think in general Civ’s biggest issue is all of these aspects of humanity and cultural development are so surface level. Government just gives you a couple of different cards. Culture and Science are rigid trees. City lists are mutually exclusive. the religion you pick (named after a real one) doesn’t matter.

    It would go so far (in terms of immersion) to actually flesh these things out. More government types and the one you choose gives you tangible advantages and disadvantages. Maybe even tie the exposure to a government by a great thinker (make people like Smith, Marx, Lenin, Plato, Aristotle, Locke, who developed new forms of government great people and by getting one that form of government arises in your land and you can choose to adopt it and it slowly spreads across the world and other places can adopt it).

    The leader mechanism stops factional conflicts from ever being good, so i’ll ignore the idea of civil wars.

    dynamic tech trees would be awesome for immersion.

    city lists being exclusive and dynamic (if Byzantium founds Byzantium, Ottomans default to Edirne) would also increase immersion
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  15. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    China:
    Once you reach the Medieval Era you reveal niter/saltpeter, esclusive to China. You can trade gunpowder to other civilizations or if you send a trade route to them. If China isn't in the game no one can discover gunpowder or build gunpowder units. :mischief:

    As much as I do find it interesting I'm having a hard time seeing how a technology tree would work for let's say the Aztec, Inca or Maya once you reach the Early Modern Renaissance Era considering they never outright developed technology after that time period, let alone a Classical Era Babylon?
     
  16. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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    Cool idea but restrictions like that narrow the gameplay focus too much which isn't that fun. Part of the fun in Civ is that you can play a militant Indian empire that conquers the world, or build a bunch of wonders as the Cree and win a CV. Lol having each civ's strengths/abilities be so determined makes the game take too much of a EU4/Paradox feel when Civ should remain as a game that's just as fun to play multiplayer. Just my opinion.

    And if Scythia/Indoeuropeans aren't in the game no one can use calvary units for the whole game.

    Mongols: (Sees a horse) Hmm...riding it look so appealing and yet...
     
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  17. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Gunpowder being unique to China only was intended as a joke. :lol:

    Though at the same time it would be interesting if China was able to reveal gunpowder and build gunpowder units earlier in Civ VII, if they didn't have an early gunpowder UU like they do now.
     
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  18. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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    No I get it was joke-as was my Mongol one. Wait...China gets a unique unit? Really? I had no idea... (Blatant sarcasm at the expense of one of the worst UUS in the game)

    On a serious note why didn't they do that for China? They already get early canals and go knows they're not super OP. Might be a cool way to transition from building wonders in the early game to blowing everyone to smithereens with medieval "fireworks"
     
  19. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Well they sort of do already. Everyone can reveal niter in the Medieval Era, but no unit uses niter until the Renaissance. Even though China's UU doesn't need niter to use, it clearly uses "gunpowder" in the Medieval. :crazyeye:
     
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  20. AlexandriaWolf

    AlexandriaWolf Chieftain

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    So now that the Frontier Pass is finsihed is there any hope they will do another one? I still need Elizabeth I, Vlad Dracula and maybe even Erzabet Bathory! MORE secret societies would also be wonderful! And maybe more heroes too!
     

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