[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[AntSou]

Now that the first one is out of the way, the imperative has been satiated and expectations have been mostly calibrated.

A day will come when my expectations shall be mostly calibrated

Spoiler :

This day we whine!

Tbf it was pretty obvious since there was no private video on youtube.

 

[Zaarin]

The main thing that bugs me about Sarah's narration is the way she pronounces every single 'the' as 'thee'. It sounds amateurish.

I mean, she's not a professional voice actor; she's a Firaxis employee who also narrates the First Look videos because Sean Bean is expensive. Her voice used to annoy me, but I've gotten used to it. Like I said, I appreciate that she at least makes an effort to approximate the foreign words.

A day will come when my expectations shall be mostly calibrated

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

A day will come when my expectations shall be mostly calibrated

Spoiler :

This day we whine!

Tbf it was pretty obvious since there was no private video on youtube.

They usually don't have the videos set to private beforehand. I've only seen it once before, with Germany. I think they accidentally released it early, then hid it behind the privacy wall. The videos usually auto-release at a predetermined time.

 

[Nassim]

Tbf it was pretty obvious since there was no private video on youtube.

I still had some hope, I'd assume they need to do Gran Colombia first look and the apocalypse mode reveal before next Thursday, so even without live stream or any new patch that's still 2 videos in less than a week.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Considering Sarah's not a professional voice actor, I think she does a great job!

The one that really annoys me is in-game Victoria's voice which a lot of people seem to love, but which I've never felt goes with the character model or my idea of the historical person.

 

[Grand-Admiral Thrawn]

YNAMP is not being discontinued. @SeelingCat is carrying it forward!

That’s great news

 

[AvianBritish]

Once Gran Colombia's first look is out on Tuesday (most likely) you will be able to preorder. They only haven't done that now because all of the graphics on the steam store for the DLC and pass will feature both leaders and Civs and will spoil the first looks.

As for why I want to pre order now; personally it's because I have nothing to do now and it saves me time on Thursday as all I need to do is just wait for the download to start instead of going through the motions of paying which would delay me downloading the DLC by a few mins.

Also because I want to pay for it now so I dont spend the money on other things instead and forget that I still need to buy that.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I think calling Gran Colombia a "Venezuelan empire" is a bit misleading for a variety of reasons. To begin with, the Fundamental Law of the Republic of Colombia, the act that founded the Republic of Colombia (Gran Colombia) in the Congress of Angostura of 1819 stated the following in its first article: "Article No. 1. The Republics of Venezuela and New Granada are united from this day forward in a single republic, under the glorious title of Republic of Colombia". Legally, Gran Colombia was an union of two previously existing states, similar to how the United Kingdom was created from the union of England and Scotland. Under the law of Gran Colombia, the former citizens of the previously failed republics of Venezuela and New Granada became Colombians, in the same way as English and Scottish people are legally British citizens.

Moreover, Colombia was a termed coined by the Venezuelan Francisco de Miranda, who fought in the American Revolution, since at least 1800 to refer to all the Spanish territories in the New World and to its citizens, all the way from Spanish Louisiana to Argentina. Bolívar's idea, influenced by Miranda's idea of a Colombian identity that encompasses all of Spanish America, was to form a single country under the name of Colombia. For him, all Spanish colonial citizens should belong to these state. Under the Constitution of Gran Colombia,the particular identities of the territory (Venezuelan, New Granadan, Quitoan, etc.) where treated as regional varieties of a single Colombian nationality. To say that Gran Colombia was a Venezuelan empire is like saying that the revolutionary United States was a Virginian empire because Washington was born in Virginia.

Simón Bolívar's army consisted of soldiers from both Venezuela and New Granada (modern day Colombia), which joined him after escaping the Spanish reconquest of the independent states of Cundinamarca (founded in 1810), Venezuela (1811), and New Granada (1811). Bolívar's second in command, General Santander, came from modern day Colombia. In this sense, the independent state of Cundinamarca (modern day Colombia) was created before the First Republic of Venezuela, and then joined the Republic of New Granada in 1811. Also, Gran Colombia expanded from New Granada (modern day Colombia) and not from Venezuela. Proof of this is the way in which Bolívar's army first secured the independence of New Granada and captured its capital, Bogotá, after the Battle of Boyacá in 1819. He did this in order to secure more people and resources to then launch campaigns to Venezuela (Battle of Carabobo, 1821), Quito (Battle of Pichincha, 1822), Perú (Battle of Ayacucho, 1824) and Bolivia. Gran Colombia was a joined effort by Venezuelans and New Granadans (modern day Colombians) to liberate their territories and incorporate other Hispanic cultures into a single identity known back then as Colombian.

Bolívar's choice of capital as Bogotá was not random. The city had been the capital of the Spanish colonial viceroyalty of New Granada since 1717 and of the New Kingdom of Granada since the 1540s, which included the colonies of the captaincy of New Granada (modern day Colombia), Venezuela, Quito (Ecuador) and Panama. All Latin American countries who got independent based their borders and territorial claims on the principle of utis possidetis, claiming that the territories of their new countries corresponded with the administrative divisions of the former Spanish colonies. If Bolivar settled in Bogotá, he could then claim by virtue of this principle that the rightful territory of Gran Colombia was the territory of the former viceroyalty of New Granada, whose capital was in Bogotá.

Two views exist after the dissolution of Gran Colombia in 1831. The first one is that Venezuela, Ecuador and New Granada (later modern day Colombia) began from scratch and that they were new countries from that point onward. The second view is that Venezuela and the Ecuador separated from the Republic of Colombia (Gran Colombia), which then had to make a new constitution, in which it changed its name back to New Granada, to reflect this reality. In this last view, New Granada, which then reacquired the name of Colombia in 1863, is considered the legal successor of the Gran Colombia (Republic of Colombia) which is the reason why the Constitution of 1886 reestablished the title that the country currently has: Republic of Colombia. For this reason, the modern day Republic of Colombia assumed the responsibility of the foreign debt, foreign representation and most international treaties that the first Republic of Colombia (Gran Colombia) had acquired during its existence.

What ruined the Great United Gran Colombia?
And is there any mis-spelling that the 'u' is used instead of 'o' i.e. Columbia? (and why Washington chose not to use Columbia to refer to a new union of republics that broke away from British Empire in 1776, but rather to represent America? (The capitol 'Washington D.C' stands for 'Washington, District of Columbia) )

.... Between 1863 and 1991 it meant free white and mestizo citizens who could vote (excluding Afro-Colombians and indigenous people) in the United States of Colombia and the current day Republic of Colombia

So there were similar Apartheid system in Colombia that exists contemporarily with Republic of South Africa? Is this system works in the same way and modelled after Medieval Europe where enfranchised whites and 'mestizo' (does it means any half white half natives in Latin America? or only those whom descended from BOTH Iberians (Spain and Portugal) and Pre-Columbian natives? and not even those with ancestry of Greeks, French, nor Italians? and not even those with Asian ancestry added to the mix? (There were also Japanese Catholics (the Kirishitans, by then often written with chinese characters that have very negative meanings) ported from Japan, either as a slave bought by Portugese traders during Sengoku Era, or those who fled Japan after Tokugawa Iyeyasu (徳川家康) became Shogun and banned Catholicism) ) is an overlord or is it works the same way as Indian Caste System? (except that since the independence, All Indian Citizens can vote, no matter what caste he/she came from, under the principles of Universal Suffrage)?
- What are the claims that backed this Apartheid System in Colombia?
- Is this one of many reasons of fifty years Colombian Civil War? Did the rebellions also seek to end Apartheid System ? did the Civil War that devolved into Warlordism, or did the Pablo Escobar's rampage that went as far as attacking Supreme Court of Colombia an impetus towards the movement to draft a new Colombian Constitution of 1991 that ratifies Universla Suffrage and ended this Apartheid around the same time ZAR ended it??

As stated there are known words in the Mayan language for example the unique unit is named Hul'che which is a Yucatec Mayan word for the atltatl or throwing spear. As for the name "observatory" I'm not sure if there is a specific name for it in the Mayan language and it may not even exist.

Uh? If calendar and astrology are the foundations of Old Maya, i'm VERY sure they have their own native words. (just my guessin')
And oh. which Mayan Languages still survives to these days??

The specific one it's based off of is called "El Caracol" which is Spanish for "the snail" because of the spiral shape of the staircase inside of the tower, but I wouldn't use a Spanish name for the district.

So Mayan Observatory with different layout than this spiral tower did exists?

The Mayan language group is actually documented incredibly well, with researchers being able to estimate some of the Proto-Mayan language from which all those tongues diverged 5000 years ago. Not only that, there are people still using these languages on a daily basis. I've found a dictionary of Classic Maya language: http://www.mesoweb.com/resources/vocabulary/Vocabulary-2009.01.pdf; and a dictionary of an active Mayan language used in Guatemala, Quiche: http://www.famsi.org/mayawriting/dictionary/christenson/quidic_complete.pdf.

As the Quiche dictionary proves, there is a native word for observatory: tanabal, suggesting that there are more terms describing observatories in other Mayan languages and that these cognates emerged before the arrival of the Europeans. Using some comparative linguistics I assume one could deduce the word in Classic Maya using these two dictionaries and some more probably to be found in the Internet, but it's quite a bit of effort for a word in a videogame that is easier to understand in English anyway..

If Quiche Mayan use 'Tanabal' to call Old Mayan observatory, then other Mayans wouldn't call it 'Tanabal' (or other similarly words) but rather a very different word ??

 

[Zaarin]

And oh. which Mayan Languages still survives to these days??

Quite a few.

 

[Gedemon]

YNAMP is not being discontinued. @SeelingCat is carrying it forward!

Long live @SeelingCat !

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Uh? If calendar and astrology are the foundations of Old Maya, i'm VERY sure they have their own native words. (just my guessin')
And oh. which Mayan Languages still survives to these days??

I should have clarified I was unaware if there was a word in the Mayan language, at least today, that referred to an "observatory." But apparently there is as mentioned above with the name "Tanabal."
Though I'm sure many players would be confused on what they would be building so they went with the obvious observatory so people would understand.

So Mayan Observatory with different layout than this spiral tower did exists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Group
Yes there were others that apparently existed, but it's speculation. The one located in Chichen Itza is the most well known and most preserved from what I know. Though I would have called the district an Observatory Group since it's a district and there would be several buildings related to the actual observatory.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

YNAMP is not being discontinued. @SeelingCat is carrying it forward!

will it be a different mod that we’ll have to download or is it updates through gedemon’s mod by seeling car?

 

[PhilBowles]

I think calling Gran Colombia a "Venezuelan empire" is a bit misleading for a variety of reasons. To begin with, the Fundamental Law of the Republic of Colombia, the act that founded the Republic of Colombia (Gran Colombia) in the Congress of Angostura of 1819 stated the following in its first article: "Article No. 1. The Republics of Venezuela and New Granada are united from this day forward in a single republic, under the glorious title of Republic of Colombia". Legally, Gran Colombia was an union of two previously existing states, similar to how the United Kingdom was created from the union of England and Scotland. Under the law of Gran Colombia, the former citizens of the previously failed republics of Venezuela and New Granada became Colombians, in the same way as English and Scottish people are legally British citizens.

Thanks for this detailed correction - I think my main misunderstanding was in not appreciating that the earlier Venezuelan projects had failed (as well as not being familiar with the existence of Cundinamarca as a originally independent entity). I had taken an admittedly simplistic view of an region whose post-colonial history is outside my area in tracing a timeline from the foundation of a Venezuelan state to that of Gran Colombia that you've helpfully rebutted in detail.

The Mayan language group is actually documented incredibly well, with researchers being able to estimate some of the Proto-Mayan language from which all those tongues diverged 5000 years ago. Not only that, there are people still using these languages on a daily basis. I've found a dictionary of Classic Maya language: http://www.mesoweb.com/resources/vocabulary/Vocabulary-2009.01.pdf; and a dictionary of an active Mayan language used in Guatemala, Quiche: http://www.famsi.org/mayawriting/dictionary/christenson/quidic_complete.pdf.

As the Quiche dictionary proves, there is a native word for observatory: tanabal, suggesting that there are more terms describing observatories in other Mayan languages and that these cognates emerged before the arrival of the Europeans. Using some comparative linguistics I assume one could deduce the word in Classic Maya using these two dictionaries and some more probably to be found in the Internet, but it's quite a bit of effort for a word in a videogame that is easier to understand in English anyway.

This is helpful to know, but we also need to keep in mind the context of how that translation was arrived at. We do not know definitively that the Maya had structures built specifically for astronomical observation - as excellent as their astronomy was, it wasn't beyond anything that could be accomplished by keen observation with the naked eye and the only structure identified as an 'observatory' is named by analogy with European buildings that serve that purpose.

I find from the following link (http://www.famsi.org/mayawriting/dictionary/christenson/quidic_complete.pdf) that a word that looks similar in Latin orthography, etamabal, has been translated as 'knowledge' - if tanabal is a related word it may be that it was associated with the observatory by inference. We really don't have any way of knowing what the contemporary Maya would have called it.

I have not played Civ since before the release of the latest patch (September 2019 wasn't it?) I thought I should skip that patch in favor of a grander experience when the next one landed. Now I fear I lost my enthusiasm to play the game.

Am I the only one who can't care less about the new pack they recently announced? My only curiosity is just to read the accompanying patch notes (There will be an accompanying patch, right?). Even then, I am not sure I will return to the game.

The wait was just too damn long.

Honestly, the main reason to be interested in the civ packs has much less to do with the actual game than with the ability to have discussions like the ones above and others on this thread. In game terms new civs are just labels and graphics on often generic game mechanics (the Maya don't seem to have anything particularly 'Mayan' about them). It's more interesting to discuss the merits of different civ options and speculate on the remaining inclusions than the actual additions to the game are likely to be.

I've kept bouncing off Civ VI - I stuck with it longer in Gathering Storm than other incarnations, but the AI remains pretty woeful even at the highest level and the difficulty is set a bit too low for me to find satisfying, as someone who played mainly on Immortal and sometimes on Deity in Civ V and couldn't beat either more than about 50% of the time - which I found a good place to be in terms of allowing me to adopt varied strategies and playstyles with success while still feeling challenged and needing to play to a tight strategy to succeed. In Civ VI I still haven't memorised the tech tree or eurekas because there's too much of an 'anything goes' feel - it definitely isn't anything like as bad as it was at release and in fact I can now lose on occasion on Deity, but I still don't find the game rewards tight gameplay particularly well and the 'play to the map' philosophy added a bit too much unwelcome variance in such things as some of the early eurekas (especially Astrology, where getting a Natural Wonder can make or break a decision whether to pursue religion seriously).

I think that for the content they've announced they're staggering releases over much too long a period - this is less content than a third expansion, and while civilisations are usually the talking point of expansions for the reasons mentioned above they aren't the main draw: new mechanics are. I'm not very interested in scenarios - I always like having them in the menu but pretty much never play them - or 'game modes' as we're now calling them, and as far as I can tell there are no new mechanics, buildings, techs or non-unique units en route, only a couple of new World Wonders. That also likely means we won't be getting especially innovative civ designs, since most of what can be done with the basic mechanics already has been.

Oh man, completely disagree here. The playstyles and differences across civilizations and leaders in Civ VI is faaar beyond faction differences in any similar historical strategy game, much less prior entries in the series. You can critique this game for a lot of things, but a "samey feeling" across factions really isn't one of them IMO.

Oh, I've very much criticised the civs for being 'samey' in AI hands and still do. AI behaviour doesn't really change across civs - insofar as they tend to produce different results it's all down to whether or not the specific civ bonuses play well with the AI's programmed behaviour, rather than different traits for different civs as in Civs IV or V. The agenda system is crude and binary, and seems designed to accommodate players who play too occasionally to form an idea of a consistent AI personality for a given civ. Amusing, detailed and on-point breakdowns of AI personalities in Civ V were posted here during that game's lifetime - nothing like that is possible for Civ VI.

 

[sandswoll]

Hey,

I play almost strictly on Xbox1 now, that's where my friends play it. I only own CivVI base game for pc/steam.
Any idea how possible the different 'mods' that are available for pc/steam to be ported to Xbox1 would be? I would LOVE to have the option of many of those.
Will this 'expansion' include any of these? I enjoy looking through this forum and seeing the different fan made stuff that is out there, but it's sad none is for Xbox.

Thanks for your help! Great community here!!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Honestly, the main reason to be interested in the civ packs has much less to do with the actual game than with the ability to have discussions like the ones above and others on this thread. In game terms new civs are just labels and graphics on often generic game mechanics (the Maya don't seem to have anything particularly 'Mayan' about them). It's more interesting to discuss the merits of different civ options and speculate on the remaining inclusions than the actual additions to the game are likely to be.

I'm not going to say that the Maya are designed to be generic because there are bonuses about them that fit, but it is an interesting point that you brought up earlier.

The Maya are designed to be a tall science Civ, maybe more so than Korea, not unlike Civ 5 Babylon even with unique archers.

At least this might mean if Babylon returns, it won't be so focused on being a tall science Civ and maybe take a more of a culture/expansionist approach.

 

[pokiehl]

Hey,

I play almost strictly on Xbox1 now, that's where my friends play it. I only own CivVI base game for pc/steam.
Any idea how possible the different 'mods' that are available for pc/steam to be ported to Xbox1 would be? I would LOVE to have the option of many of those.
Will this 'expansion' include any of these? I enjoy looking through this forum and seeing the different fan made stuff that is out there, but it's sad none is for Xbox.

Thanks for your help! Great community here!!

It's not possible at all unfortunately. Mods are chiefly for the PC, Linux and Mac versions.

 

[Zaarin]

At least this might mean if Babylon returns, it won't be so focused on being a tall science Civ and maybe take a more of a culture/expansionist approach.

Expansionism suits Assyria better than Babylon. Babylon's empires tended to be short lived and unstable. If anything, I'd see Babylon being set up to have a super-charged capital, sort of the opposite of Maya.

 

[sandswoll]

@pokiehl ok, thanks!
Figured this was the case.

 

[SirMediocrity]

I'm not going to say that the Maya are designed to be generic because there are bonuses about them that fit, but it is an interesting point that you brought up earlier.

The Maya are designed to be a tall science Civ, maybe more so than Korea, not unlike Civ 5 Babylon even with unique archers.

At least this might mean if Babylon returns, it won't be so focused on being a tall science Civ and maybe take a more of a culture/expansionist approach.

Expansionism suits Assyria better than Babylon. Babylon's empires tended to be short lived and unstable. If anything, I'd see Babylon being set up to have a super-charged capital, sort of the opposite of Maya.

I would much rather have Babylon as a culture/architecture focused civ rather than as a science civ.

 

[Gedemon]

will it be a different mod that we’ll have to download or is it updates through gedemon’s mod by seeling car?

Same mod on Steam, the workshop allows any contributor to update.

And it has to keep the same ID for the other maps mods depending on it.