[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

CdM ruled, and even when she didn't she still wield power.

CdM had a great deal of influence, yes, but she was never queen-regnant, even when she was regent for her sons. She always ruled in an unofficial capacity. I'm not saying that makes her unqualified; just pointing out she was never the de jure ruler of France.

I believe Eleanor also led in her own right, at least in England

She ruled Aquitaine in her own right, but never France or England--again, only the influence she wielded through her husbands and sons (which, in the case of husbands, wasn't much--lots of conflict ).

 

[The Kingmaker]

Generally speaking so am I, but in the case of America specifically, where we have someone whose job description is basically "civ leader" and whose power at the same time is very much so not ceremonial... Plus we have a good thirty or so presidents to choose from (disregarding that some are very unlikely but taking into account that I can't imagine they'd pick anyone more recent than Truman or maybe Eisenhower); it's not like there's a shortage of options.

I can pretty much guarantee that whatever president appears in Civ will come off a shortlist of maybe half-a-dozen. Pretty much just the ones on the coins and monuments.

Washington
Jefferson (getting scandalous though)
Lincoln
Grant (and this one is very iffy)
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Kennedy

Jackson’s a no-no for so many reasons. Wilson might have been possible except for the flagrant racism.

I even think they might be moving away from FDR (last seen in Civ4) and JFK (last seen in CivRev2).

That being said, I really wouldn’t object to old Ben Franklin as a second leader. I think he could be delightfully funny.

 

[Zaarin]

Grant's administration was so overburdened with corruption that I really can't imagine they'd choose him; even as a general he only stood out because he met the bare minimum requirement of "basic competence"--which is more than most of the Union's generals could claim. I'd also be pretty surprised if they chose JFK, whose brief administration also had corruption issues and who is chiefly remembered for being attractive, amorous, and assassinated. I'd also be a little surprised (and disappointed) to see FDR return.

That narrows your list down to Washington, Lincoln, TR, and maybe Jefferson--but I personally wouldn't rule out James Madison or Dwight Eisenhower, either, as both are well-known and reasonably popular. Since TR was a surprise (to me at least), I'd love to be surprised by John Adams next time around.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

America would honestly be in the bottom half on my list of civs to get an alternate leader, and if it did get an alternate leader I'd be pretty disappointed if it weren't one of our first five presidents. Lincoln in particular I don't really see bringing anything interesting to the table to change the way America plays. What's more striking to me is that Egypt and China haven't gotten alternate leaders.

Theoretically I could see Lincoln doing something with getting bonus in regards to loyalty/losing loyalty.

But yeah, I think Jefferson could be more interesting. He'd be a natural for something to do with the Louisiana Purchase/Lewis and Clark. Cheaper tile buying and faster/better recon units seems easy enough. Give him a Frontiersman or Homesteader UU even though that's not quite the same time frame.

But in general yeah, I'd prefer someone else. Egypt or Rome mostly. But also China.

 

[Aurelesk]

It is quite common to read that Eleanor was unofficially in charge in France. Back in the day, France was far from being a centralized power. I am not saying it is as messy as the Holy Roman Empire later on, but Duke and Count had a lot power and ready to challenge the King's order.

Eleonor was the head of the most powerful duchy in France, and had an education toward ruling her own land. She married Louis the Young (or the Pious) who was a second son and not supposed to rule: he had a religious education instead. He was clumsy and naive, she was ambitious and ruthless: she sealed alliance, opposed the pope multiple times, put down rebellion merciless (hijacking noble's children, burning village and church...), and so on.

After the 2nd Crusade (that Eleonor took part), Louis the Pious, still weak-willed, started to get stubborn and started to not took advice from anyone. This kind of lead France to its doom (hopefully, the 3 following Kings were highy skilled and managed to save the Kingdom: without Philip August, France and England will be the same country). Nobody know for sure which one asked for marriage annulment: Eleanor probably knew she will not get anything from him anymore so my guess is there. But if it was Louis who asked, this was probably one of the dumbest idea in the known history.

But sure, she neither ruled over France nor England stricto sensu, she just had a huge influence over the two Kingdoms.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

CdM and Eleanor of Aquitaine were queens-consort and queens-dowager; Gandhi had no official title or role.

I can understand Eleanor more for a ruler of England who Richard basically yielded his power to her while he went away on the Crusades. Catherine also had influence in France and relatively more political powers than her sons. I mean they aren't Elizabeth and Louis XIV but it's fine.

I'd also be pretty surprised if they chose JFK, whose brief administration also had corruption issues and who is chiefly remembered for being attractive, amorous, and assassinated. I'd also be a little surprised (and disappointed) to see FDR return.

I could see him maybe in the future if they wanted to associate the U.S. with the space race. He doesn't make sense with cultural America in this game.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I could see him maybe in the future if they wanted to associate the U.S. with the space race. He doesn't make sense with cultural America in this game.

Maybe we can look forward to him in Civ XX as he'll be far enough in the past then.

 

[Zaarin]

It is quite common to read that Eleanor was unofficially in charge in France. Back in the day, France was far from being a centralized power. I am not saying it is as messy as the Holy Roman Empire later on, but Duke and Count had a lot power and ready to challenge the King's order.

Eleonor was the head of the most powerful duchy in France, and had an education toward ruling her own land. She married Louis the Young (or the Pious) who was a second son and not supposed to rule: he had a religious education instead. He was clumsy and naive, she was ambitious and ruthless: she sealed alliance, opposed the pope multiple times, put down rebellion merciless (hijacking noble's children, burning village and church...), and so on.

After the 2nd Crusade (that Eleonor took part), Louis the Pious, still weak-willed, started to get stubborn and started to not took advice from anyone. This kind of lead France to its doom (hopefully, the 3 following Kings were highy skilled and managed to save the Kingdom: without Philip August, France and England will be the same country). Nobody know for sure which one asked for marriage annulment: Eleanor probably knew she will not get anything from him anymore so my guess is there. But if it was Louis who asked, this was probably one of the dumbest idea in the known history.

But sure, she neither ruled over France nor England stricto sensu, she just had a huge influence over the two Kingdoms.

Yeah, she had a lot of wealth and a lot of power--but more so as the Duchess of Aquitaine than the queen of France/England. Just pointing out she wasn't de jure official ruler of either country.

I could see him maybe in the future if they wanted to associate the U.S. with the space race. He doesn't make sense with cultural America in this game.

Ugh, I hope not.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I don't know what Lincoln's gameplay abilities would be, but "the better angels of our nature" is a ready made leader ability or agenda.

 

[The googles do nothing]

I don't know what Lincoln's gameplay abilities would be, but "the better angels of our nature" is a ready made leader ability or agenda.

I would make his ability to be able to switch governments at any time, and have all legacy cards available. He actively worked to prevent going to war but then decisively - and undemocratically according to some - acted when war broke out.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

the switching governments at any time/ changing policy cards at will would be such a good idea for hammurabi

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Benjamin Franklin might not have been president, but he's one of the Founding Fathers who signed the Declaration of Independence. He also was Postmaster IIRC, a role older than the USA themselves and which has so much influence and held so much importance in the evergrowing manifest destiny.

What's important for leaders in Civ VI, as well as their historical feats, is their big personalities. And Ben Franklin has a big personality: if we don't consider the small, plumpy, bald snarky guy that went out during a storm with a kite to prove the electrical nature of lighting, who build a glass harmonica or spent his time travelling around the world as a skillful diplomat as a big personality, I mean who is?

Plus Benjamin Franklin would be the perfect example of a true scientist as a leader and thus a correct leader that has Science bonuses. He was a true inventor and scientist, so it would make sense.

Also, on the other hand, having Franklin as a Great Scientist who can give governor titles with eurekas or a thing like that would be great.

 

[krmarci]

Maybe we can look forward to him in Civ XX as he'll be far enough in the past then.

Wilhelmina died only a year before him. He's already far enough in the past.

EDIT: I checked, it's actually slightly less than a year.

 

[AntSou]

Washington
Jefferson (getting scandalous though)
Lincoln
Grant (and this one is very iffy)
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt

That narrows your list down to Washington, Lincoln, TR, and maybe Jefferson--but I personally wouldn't rule out James Madison or Dwight Eisenhower, either, as both are well-known and reasonably popular. Since TR was a surprise (to me at least), I'd love to be surprised by John Adams next time around.

Well, we know it isn't FDR because name.

Grant:
Point Against: his build as President is too similar to Roosevelt's. No broad shoulders, but still short hair and squary face.

Point in Favour: He could safely be portrayed with a Union uniform, and in fact might be the best option to do so (even if he didn't wear it as President).

I don't think there's much chance of Jefferson under the current political climate and sensibilities. Perhaps in a decade if things have calmed down a bit and people can again see him in the context of his time.

Selecting a leader for America is tricky business. The "wrong" choice will be all over the press and give the game bad publicity.

Eisenhower:
Comes a bit too late imo.

Lincoln:
- Lanky man with large ears, beady eyes and an unusual beard. It creates a distinct image nothing alike Roosevelt.
- Top Hat, preferably.
- The safest bet among the most renowned options. They are not going with an obscure choice at the end of the game's development when sales may be harder and at a time when excitment may be turning towards fresher titles like Humankind, a game with no leaders. They'll contrast that take with a big name, because Leaders is Civ's thing. Imo.

 

[Abaxial]

Lincoln is in bad odour at the moment because of his treatment of native peoples. The other early US presidents are all out because of their association with slavery. Woodrow Wilson would be good for some sort of diplomatic abilities. Or (tongue in cheek) how about Herbert Hoover? Bonus to dam districts! Or better yet, Mrs Hoover for protection against natural disasters, on the slender grounds that she was the only seismologist ever to reside in the White House.

 

[Lord Lakely]

WHERE IS THIS IDEA OF AN AMERICAN ALT LEADER COMING FROM???

like seriously.

Firaxis can't possibly be this dense. Not with a reskin of Teddy Roosevelt coming out in the *next* DLC pack.

 

[Abaxial]

Seriously, what's the point of just reskinning Roosevelt? Sounds the most boring thing ever.

 

[AntSou]

Woodrow Wilson would be good for some sort of diplomatic abilities.

Weren't they removing his name from some institution just last week?

WHERE IS THIS IDEA OF AN AMERICAN ALT LEADER COMING FROM???

like seriously.

Firaxis can't possibly be this dense. Not with a reskin of Teddy Roosevelt coming out in the *next* DLC pack.

We're talking about it in the context of an alt for a 2nd Pass.

Don't exactly see what's dense about mentioning alts for the most obvious Civs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Seriously, what's the point of just reskinning Roosevelt? Sounds the most boring thing ever.

At least he'll probably be in his Rough Rider uniform.

 

[Xandinho]

WHERE IS THIS IDEA OF AN AMERICAN ALT LEADER COMING FROM???

like seriously.

Firaxis can't possibly be this dense. Not with a reskin of Teddy Roosevelt coming out in the *next* DLC pack.

Yeah, I thought the game was already kind of saturated with so many leaders from the Anglosphere.
That said, Egypt and China remain my top priority to receive a second leader. After them comes Russia, Germany, Arabia and Persia.