[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For those wondering why Bulgaria would be a science civ—I believe it is because they were known for amassing numerous libraries and books, similar to a Medieval Ashurbanipal, or Mathias Corvinus.

I don't see where they amassed many scientific works, like the others you mentioned, because from what I see most of the literary schools were the main cultural centers of the empire. The only 'scientific' thing I can find though is that they invented the Cyrillic script which spread to other Slavic speaking countries.

Of course the Seowon is also scientific, in game, so I guess it could work as maybe a library replacement. Though to me I think it would make more sense as a unique cultural infrastructure personally.

 

[Lord Lakely]

For those wondering why Bulgaria would be a science civ—I believe it is because they were known for amassing numerous libraries and books, similar to a Medieval Ashurbanipal, or Mathias Corvinus.

The Bulgarian chitalishtes store Bulgarian cultural patrimonium - as opposed to the Assyrian ones which stored knowledge of other civilizations. Take it from the guy who's been to Bulgaria at least 10 times - they are a cultural civ.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Not quite?

Korea's been scientific twice, but both times the leader was also a person who pushed for research and scientific development: Seondeok with her Cheomseongdae , Sejong wth the Jade Halls and the Hangul Alphabet. The basis for a scientific Korea was there, both times.

Bulgaria however? Makes no bloody sense as a scientific civ.

Firstly, Bulgaria lacks a good scientific leader. The Bolgar leaders were a bare step above steppe nomads. Of the tzars, Boris I and Simeon the Great had the council of Preslav, but this council was more of religious and cultural institution. The Glagotic and Cyrillic alphabets were designed with the purpose to spread religious texts and messages - not previously lost and recently recovered Hellenistic knowledge.

Secondly, you may be tempted to think otherwise because of the Macedonian Renaissance, as the territory currently belonging to the Republic of North Macedonia (whose culture and language is strongly linked to Bulgaria's), but the scholars of the Macedonian renaissance hailed from Macedon, which was part of the Byzantine empire. Contemporary Macedonia and ancient Macedon aren't the same entity, as the Greeks will fiercely remind you each time you mix the two up. The Macedonian Renaissance makes sense as a Byzantine ability, who could be scientific, but not a Bulgarian one.

Thirdly, tying in with the first point, look at the legacy of the First Bulgarian Empire. The achievements of Boris I and Simeon the Great (which also coincided with a period of Byzantine weakness, hence why the Bulgarian empire became the most powerful Kingdom in eastern Europe for about a century - they simply filled the power vacuum) were largely cultural and religous - Eastern Orthodoxy spread around the slavic world like wildfire, especially the Balkans. Cultural traditions such a the Cyrillic alphabet and polyphonic singing were introduced, and are still practised to this day. Many of the monasteries and castles build during these periods have since become tourist attractions. Nationalistic sentiment is embedded into the population from a young age, and everyone is well-read upon the cultural traditions and history of their nation. Domestic tourism is massive in Bulgaria and keeps the economy somewhat afloat, in spite of the dwindling population.

The point I'm trying to make here is that science makes no sense for Bulgaria, not moreso than it does for the Cree or the Zulu. Other than the cyrillic alphabet, Bulgaria's scientific achievements are insignificant. Their culture however? Rich, deep, layered and relevant to the present day. They make a perfect case for a warmongering civ with a strong cultural (or religious, or both) bonus.

-------

As far a scientific civs go, I think it depends on the timeline, does it not? Scientific advancement isn't a constant thing - China was highly advanced during the classical and medieval eras, but by the Industrial era were utterly backwards compared to their contemporaries. Japan was scientifically weak until the industrial era and now are amongst the most well-educated and creative nations in the world. Most nations can take the scientific role - but only a few (Greece, Rome/Byzantium, Assyria/Babylon, Persia) have fit the bill consistently enough to really warrant a scientific CUA. For the rest, it really depends on the chosen leader and which time period he or she thrust the entire nation in.

Okay you've convinced me. Bulgaria for cultural civ.

These arguments regarding conceptual space keep popping up when talking about Civs.

This is not a matter of design space but of your own lack of creativity to conceive of abilities which do not overlap with one another within existing mechanics.

I agree design space is a thing, but it's wide and filled with possibilities, not heavily constrained like you seem to imagine it.

Oh sure, if we just looked at design space from afar and with no critical eye there's arguably quite a lot. However, if we're looking to create civs which are mechanically coherent, and flavorfully distinct from the rest of the roster, the design space with respecting to unified sets of elements adhering to a baseline level of coherency and distinctiveness becomes more constrained with each new addition to the roster. This doesn't just apply to specifically how an element is implemented, but spans a surrounding area of similar conceptual design space representing that historical feature. At this point, Byzantium can't really have unique walls or faith-based suzerainty like Georgia, a Holy Site or great people bonus and cultural/religious angle like Russia, a unique governor and "market" bonuses like the Ottomans, nor territory-grabbing forts and heavy cavalry like Poland. At some point, all the resonant and expected elements of a Byzantine civ are eaten up and all that is left are esoteric, unintuitive features which are overly complicated and/or do not really fit the flavor of Byzantium.

I happen to take the opposite perspective as others on here. I do not have blind faith in the developers to magic together a civ just because some vaguely defined and understood idea of "design space" still exists. The more the devs put into current civs (and look how bloated and sprawling some of the designs are, like the Ottomans), particularly European and Middle Eastern civs since those areas are always densely populated with culturally related and technologically similar empires, the less space is left for the civs they keep putting off. I think at this point the only sizeable design space left for Byzantium to work with is as a science-leaning civ; which would be great except virtually no one on these boards has the imagination to go in that direction. Instead, we just see repeated proposals for another Georgia, another Russia. Just because fans can lazily throw together old, familiar, and already taken ideas in a few minutes does not prove that good design space still exists.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

If they didn't give a single scientific/bookish trait to Mathias Corvinus while he had the biggest library of his time, I think it would be a hit-and-miss.

If we want a European science civ, I would argue that Ireland would fit it. After all, they had the most massive concentration of monasteries during the Early Middle Age, they were exported all around Europe (at a point than Rome were kind of afraid of them), and they started the Carolingian Renaissance. Problem with that idea: Scotland is already a science civ AND some people argue that they're currently occupying the "celt" slot, so having another scientific celt civ you be to redundant. But it would be extremely interesting.

Monasteries from Armagh should give a scientific bonus too. Only faith, habitation and healing is kind of weak.

they actually talked about how they wanted to give matthias a scientific trait but kristina took precendence. Why they didn’t make matthias scientific and give his military bonuses to Gustavus Adolphus i’ll never know

The Bulgarian chitalishtes store Bulgarian cultural patrimonium - as opposed to the Assyrian ones which stored knowledge of other civilizations. Take it from the guy who's been to Bulgaria at least 10 times - they are a cultural civ.

library replacement that gives culture?

I don't see where they amassed many scientific works, like the others you mentioned, because from what I see most of the literary schools were the main cultural centers of the empire. The only 'scientific' thing I can find though is that they invented the Cyrillic script which spread to other Slavic speaking countries.

Of course the Seowon is also scientific, in game, so I guess it could work as maybe a library replacement. Though to me I think it would make more sense as a unique cultural infrastructure personally.

the seowon really should’ve been a university replacement which gave culture

 

[PhoenicianGold]

they actually talked about how they wanted to give matthias a scientific trait but kristina took precendence. Why they didn’t make matthias scientific and give his military bonuses to Gustavus Adolphus i’ll never know

Because they don't want VI to be a sausagefest of general-kings. Again, if there's a female leader option, they have overwhelmingly tended toward including the female leader. And it seems that female leaders don't always have to be strong monarchs; they get points for quirkiness.

library replacement that gives culture?

I would like this a lot actually. I think a natural way to evolve districts is to create buildings that add bonuses outside of the district's wheelhouse, kind of like how Hungary's thermal baths add production.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I think at this point the only sizeable design space left for Byzantium to work with is as a science-leaning civ; which would be great except virtually no one on these boards has the imagination to go in that direction. Instead, we just see repeated proposals for another Georgia, another Russia.

You can't have Byzantium without religion, so a religious aspect is pretty much obligatory. That doesn't mean we can't make something out of it. But going on the sciency-road with elements of religion would make it too close to Arabia IMO.

I have personally two reasons why I don't want Byzantium in NFP: 1) I don't consider them unique enough to be included and take the spot of some other, more worthy, European civs (Bulgaria, Italy, Ireland, Portugal) and they share too much space with others civs, and 2) I don't fear lazy fan doing design on their free time, I fear Firaxis' design. Byzantium"s design in Civ V was reknown as the worst of the game, and I fear that Firaxis designers will just go for the easy road for the Byzantium because, since so much people are asking them without conditions, they won't bother to make them unique, and put more efforts to some less-known non-staple.

I don't want Byzantium, but if they have a unique, fun, interesting gameplay with out-of-the-box bonuses (like Matthias or Lady Six Sky or Scotland), well I'll be thrilled and very happy. But I fear that if we have the Byzantines it would not be fun this way (just look at Gran Columbia).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Oh sure, if we just looked at design space from afar and with no critical eye there's arguably quite a lot. However, if we're looking to create civs which are mechanically coherent, and flavorfully distinct from the rest of the roster, the design space with respecting to unified sets of elements adhering to a baseline level of coherency and distinctiveness becomes more constrained with each new addition to the roster. This doesn't just apply to specifically how an element is implemented, but spans a surrounding area of similar conceptual design space representing that historical feature. At this point, Byzantium can't really have unique walls or faith-based suzerainty like Georgia, a Holy Site or great people bonus and cultural/religious angle like Russia, a unique governor and "market" bonuses like the Ottomans, nor territory-grabbing forts and heavy cavalry like Poland. At some point, all the resonant and expected elements of a Byzantine civ are eaten up and all that is left are esoteric, unintuitive features which are overly complicated and/or do not really fit the flavor of Byzantium.

I think this argument is kind of pointless though. Just give them a Hippodrome UI and Dromon UU like they've had in the past.
Make it to where you can purchase/unlock policy slots and governments with faith.
With Justinian or Theodora make it to where you can rebuild pillaged buildings and districts faster.

I happen to take the opposite perspective as others on here. I do not have blind faith in the developers to magic together a civ just because some vaguely defined and understood idea of "design space" still exists. The more the devs put into current civs (and look how bloated and sprawling some of the designs are, like the Ottomans), particularly European and Middle Eastern civs since those areas are always densely populated with culturally related and technologically similar empires, the less space is left for the civs they keep putting off. I think at this point the only sizeable design space left for Byzantium to work with is as a science-leaning civ; which would be great except virtually no one on these boards has the imagination to go in that direction. Instead, we just see repeated proposals for another Georgia, another Russia. Just because fans can lazily throw together old, familiar, and already taken ideas in a few minutes does not prove that good design space still exists.

So you are saying that the design spaces of other people don't work, so therefore we should go with something new when we don't even know what Firaxis will do with it?
Everyone thought that a Polynesian culture wasn't going to work when Norway showed up with early ocean crossing and now look. They gave us something totally out of the box which is the Maori that's starts the game in the ocean.

they actually talked about how they wanted to give matthias a scientific trait but kristina took precendence. Why they didn’t make matthias scientific and give his military bonuses to Gustavus Adolphus i’ll never know

It's obviously because they wanted Kristina as the leader of Sweden.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

You can't have Byzantium without religion, so a religious aspect is pretty much obligatory. That doesn't mean we can't make something out of it. But going on the sciency-road with elements of religion would make it too close to Arabia IMO.

Exactly. And I have a bit of a beef with how Arabia is designed, given that imo it should be religious/cultural before it should be scientific, if we are looking at overall legacy.

I have personally two reasons why I don't want Byzantium in NFP: 1) I don't consider them unique enough to be included and take the spot of some other, more worthy, European civs (Bulgaria, Italy, Ireland, Portugal) and they share too much space with others civs, and 2) I don't fear lazy fan doing design on their free time, I fear Firaxis' design. Byzantium"s design in Civ V was reknown as the worst of the game, and I fear that Firaxis designers will just go for the easy road for the Byzantium because, since so much people are asking them without conditions, they won't bother to make them unique, and put more efforts to some less-known non-staple.

I don't want Byzantium, but if they have a unique, fun, interesting gameplay with out-of-the-box bonuses (like Matthias or Lady Six Sky or Scotland), well I'll be thrilled and very happy. But I fear that if we have the Byzantines it would not be fun this way (just look at Gran Columbia)

This too. Byzantium was atrociously designed in V, and so far fan proposals haven't really inspired much confidence that it could be any better in VI. They could go the Ottoman route and just give Byzantium "a lot of things", but if it's only using vanilla mechanics....

I think this argument is kind of pointless though. Just give them a Hippodrome UI and Dromon UU like they've had in the past.
Make it to where you can purchase/unlock policy slots and governments with faith.
With Justinian or Theodora make it to where you can rebuild pillaged buildings and districts faster.

So you are saying that the design spaces of other people don't work, so therefore we should go with something new when we don't even know what Firaxis will do with it?
Everyone thought that a Polynesian culture wasn't going to work when Norway showed up with early ocean crossing and now look. They gave us something totally out of the box which is the Maori that's starts the game in the ocean.

So far the ideas for new civs have opened some quite unique and exciting design spaces. Maybe if better designs were proposed than just a hippodrome (which imo should have been the Roman UI) and a UA that wasn't suspiciously similar to V's design, I would be more onboard. But everyone is more insistent on getting something familiar out of Byzantium, and all the familiar ideas frankly suck as far as making Byzantium unique and fun. I think fans are just too mired in defaulting to past designs to look for any other way Byzantium could exist. At least the new civ proposals show their work and intellectually defend hope that Firaxis has a lot of options in those areas, rather than just resting on blind faith and stale ideas.

Like, what is the hippodrome supposed to do for a religious or scientific or militaristic civ? Is Byzantium going to be the party civ? Is that what you guys actually want? Because that's not what I'm hearing lol.

I'm really not trying to shoot down Byzantium getting in the game at some point. But there is a lot of rote fanaticism surrounding the idea and I don't find much of it productive in discussing how Byzantium might actually be included in a way that has a defined, unique playstyle and adds something to the game.

 

[Killer Rabbit]

From the three Civs that have been released/announced so far, I think NF is largely designed to bring back returning favorites as well as new Civs that have been asked for for a long time. In other words, it's the best kind of fan service.

So with that as a baseline, I think Byzantium is pretty much a lock given that they're a fan favorite (or at least, they have a contingent of fans clamoring for their return). Maya and Ethiopia had similar contingents clamoring for them and they've already been announced. (And like I said in another thread, if they're not included, I think it's likely there will be some type of "Final Frontier" pack afterward.) I do agree that a lot of the proposed design elements for Byzantium aren't that interesting, but I would definitely be happy to see them return.

I also think it's very likely that Vietnam will be included, probably with the Trung sisters as their leaders, as they've consistently received support in a Bolivar/Gran Colombia-like fashion.

That leaves three more Civs. As a card-carrying Italophile, I'd personally love to see modern Italy. The Renaissance-themed mockup based around different city states being represented various city centers that was posted a few (or maybe a lot) of pages back was really great, I thought. There's also been a consistent clamoring for Italy as well, which I think is a point in their favor.

Given that FXS likes to have geographical diversity, I think that one of the last two Civs will be Native American. I'd love to see the Sioux or some kind of southwest US culture represented. And the last Civ might be another African civ?

I'd also like to see Austria return, but I agree that with Germany and Hungary in the game, it's unlikely. Plus they don't have the consistent fan base that Byzantium or even Italy have.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Like, what is the hippodrome supposed to do for a religious or scientific or militaristic civ? Is Byzantium going to be the party civ? Is that what you guys actually want? Because that's not what I'm hearing lol.

Amenities are good for militaristic civs. Ask the Aztecs, Hungary, Ottomans, Rome etc. because their unique infrastructure gives amenities.
It can also be used for cultural/civic progressions as the one in Constantinople was integral to the culture of the city and political discussions/debates.

I don't see Byzantines being scientific at all personally so it doesn't matter. What would your ideal unique infrastructure for a Byzantine civ be anyway?

 

[AntSou]

Oh sure, if we just looked at design space from afar and with no critical eye there's arguably quite a lot. However, if we're looking to create civs which are mechanically coherent, and flavorfully distinct from the rest of the roster, the design space with respecting to unified sets of elements adhering to a baseline level of coherency and distinctiveness becomes more constrained with each new addition to the roster. This doesn't just apply to specifically how an element is implemented, but spans a surrounding area of similar conceptual design space representing that historical feature.

No, I mean that, even with that in mind, there's still more design space than you give it credit for.

At this point, Byzantium can't really have unique walls or faith-based suzerainty like Georgia, a Holy Site or great people bonus and cultural/religious angle like Russia, a unique governor and "market" bonuses like the Ottomans, nor territory-grabbing forts and heavy cavalry like Poland. At some point, all the resonant and expected elements of a Byzantine civ are eaten up and all that is left are esoteric, unintuitive features which are overly complicated and/or do not really fit the flavor of Byzantium.

This is what I mean. You reach the conclusion that the design space is saturated for Byzantium because you can't conceive of enough alternatives.

E.g.
- Access to a unique 5th Belief Type with 4-5 unique Beliefs no other Civ can access. Like other beliefs, you can only pick one of this type per game. BAM! Both Religious and Unique. All I did was apply their ability from V in a way that makes sense for VI.

I'm not saying that Byzantium needs to be focused on Religion. I'm saying that they can be and still feel unique.

The more the devs put into current civs (and look how bloated and sprawling some of the designs are, like the Ottomans), particularly European and Middle Eastern civs since those areas are always densely populated with culturally related and technologically similar empires, the less space is left for the civs they keep putting off. I think at this point the only sizeable design space left for Byzantium to work with is as a science-leaning civ; which would be great except virtually no one on these boards has the imagination to go in that direction. Instead, we just see repeated proposals for another Georgia, another Russia. Just because fans can lazily throw together old, familiar, and already taken ideas in a few minutes does not prove that good design space still exists.

People on this forum have repeatedly been asking and providing ideas for Byzantium which do not relate to religion, so I don't know who you're talking about.

 

[pokiehl]

Data mining from the May 2020 update revealed some as-yet unused effects and abilities. One involves getting a free Eureka and Inspiration upon completing a trade route with a foreign civilization for the first time. Perhaps that will be part of Portugal's ability.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Amenities are good for militaristic civs. Ask the Aztecs, Hungary, Ottomans, Rome etc. because their unique infrastructure gives amenities.
It can also be used for cultural/civic progressions as the one in Constantinople was integral to the culture of the city and political discussions/debates.

I think it would feel historically dishonest to portray the hippodrome as a political building based on one instance, although we do have Minas Gerais so what do I know? We could just as easily have a "basilica" unique and treat it as housing the "basilika" at that rate.

I don't see Byzantines being scientific at all personally so it doesn't matter. What would your ideal unique infrastructure for a Byzantine civ be anyway?

None of them excite me. No interest in Theodosian walls (or Babylonian walls for that matter; Georgia is enough). I don't think the Hippodrome is as good of a UI for Byzantium as it is for Rome (or at least for both). I don't like the Basilica as feeling very close to the Russian Lavra, and I don't think it should be limited to just a UB in the Gov't Plaza. I guess your hippodrome could be a GP UB, but that doesn't feel like a good depiction of hippodromes either.

No, I mean that, even with that in mind, there's still more design space than you give it credit for.

This is what I mean. You reach the conclusion that the design space is saturated for Byzantium because you can't conceive of enough alternatives.

And neither can you, apparently.

E.g.
- Access to a unique 5th Belief Type with 4-5 unique Beliefs no other Civ can access. Like other beliefs, you can only pick one of this type per game. BAM! Both Religious and Unique. All I did was apply their ability from V in a way that makes sense for VI.

Lol. I highly doubt the devs will go out of their way to create an arbitrary number of new beliefs for a single civ. It's a fairly boring and insular idea, unless those beliefs are on the level of silly gimmickery like Eleanor, in which case there's no reason to design multiple beliefs if one gimmick is enough. And further, in which case if one gimmicky belief is enough it probably shouldn't be a belief. I also suspect it would be a lot harder to balance against the other civs as compared to, say, the Ottoman's unique governor or Greece's wildcard slot.

I'm not saying that Byzantium needs to be focused on Religion. I'm saying that they can be and still feel unique.

Perhaps. I haven't seen strong arguments for it though. Even if I did find your proposal feasible, I don't see how merely having unique religious beliefs makes for a unique gameplay niche yet, similarly to how merely having a hippodrome doesn't give Byzantium a clearly defined playstyle identity like other civs. Perhaps the devs can find a way to make it fun, but that part of your argument still rests on faith.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Byzantium - Alexis Komnenos

CA: Great Schism: Shrines and Temples provide Science equivalent to their faith output. This is increased by 25% if the city with the holy site is ecstatic

UU: Dromon: Frigate Replacement available after Naval Tradition. Units damaged by a dromon take residual damage for 2 turns.

UI: Hippodrome: Unique Improvement which must be built next to a entertainment complex after games and recreation. +1 extra amenity. +1 additional amenity should horses be harvested in a city with a hippodrome.

LA: Komnenian Restoration: Changing to a new government level grants one new trader and trade route capacity. All trade routes provide +2 gold, +1 science, +1 faith.

LUA: Varangian Guard: Replaces Pikemen. +20 garrison strength to a city that a Varangian guard is stationed in

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Byzantium - Alexis Komnenos

CA: Great Schism: Holy Site buildings provide Science equivalent to their faith output. This is increased by 25% if the city with the holy site is ecstatic

UU: Dromon: Frigate Replacement available after Naval Tradition. Units damaged by a dromon take residual damage for 2 turns.

UI: Hippodrome: Zoo replacement. +1 extra amenity in addition to the Zoo’s amenity bonuses. +1 additional amenity should horses be harvested in a city with a hippodrome.

LA: Komnenian Restoration: Changing to a new government level grants one new trader and trade route capacity. All trade routes provide +2 gold, +1 science, +1 faith.

LUA: Varangian Guard: Replaces Pikemen. +20 garrison strength to a city that a Varangian guard is stationed in

I think it needs to be a bit more focused, the UU/UI are militaristic but then you have massive mechanical sprawl between Great Schism and Komnenian Restoration. Also I think the Varangian Guard could be spicier than just a garrison bonus. But overall a good start for a domination-focused civ.

The catch-22 is that I would likely replace Great Schism with something more tied into militarism and trade routes; and yet that would also pull Byzantium closer to the other religious/domination civs.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think it needs to be a bit more focused, the UU/UI are militaristic but then you have massive mechanical sprawl between Great Schism and Komnenian Restoration. Also I think the Varangian Guard could be spicier than just a garrison bonus. But overall a good start for a domination-focused civ.

The catch-22 is that I would likely replace Great Schism with something more tied into militarism and trade routes; and yet that would also pull Byzantium closer to the other religious/domination civs.

all UUs are militaristic...

and the UI synergizes with the LA..

 

[PhoenicianGold]

all UUs are militaristic...

and the UI synergizes with the LA..

Maybe Byzantium will just be primarily domination civ.

Data mining from the May 2020 update revealed some as-yet unused effects and abilities. One involves getting a free Eureka and Inspiration upon completing a trade route with a foreign civilization for the first time. Perhaps that will be part of Portugal's ability.

This could also be a Byzantium ability. Depends on if you view the Eureka/Inspiration as intending to bring up a trader civ that isn't going to be prioritizing Campuses and Squares (i.e. Portugal), or if it's supposed to synergize with a heavily cultural/scientific trader civ (i.e. Byzantium).

Actually, if the central "gimmick" of that civ is supposed to be accruing technology and civics at an accelerated rate through exchanging with other civs (which it might not be; it could just be a side gimmick), that absolutely sounds more like Byzantium than Portugal. And it's an angle that I could finally get behind because it implies a particular and new playstyle, not just a random assembly of generally okay mechanics.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it would feel historically dishonest to portray the hippodrome as a political building based on one instance, although we do have Minas Gerais so what do I know? We could just as easily have a "basilica" unique and treat it as housing the "basilika" at that rate.

It was a center of political discussions and social center of Constantinople. I'm not only talking about what happened during the Nika Riots.

UI: Hippodrome: Zoo replacement. +1 extra amenity in addition to the Zoo’s amenity bonuses. +1 additional amenity should horses be harvested in a city with a hippodrome.

Why a zoo replacement so late?
I was thinking since it would be based off of the Hippodrome in Constantinople, it could be a unique improvement that takes up a whole tile and available at Games and Recreation. It could grant more amenities next to an EC, more culture next to a city center, and if you have horses in the city make them give +1 amenity.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Byzantium - Alexis Komnenos

CA: Great Schism: Holy Site buildings provide Science equivalent to their faith output. This is increased by 25% if the city with the holy site is ecstatic

UU: Dromon: Frigate Replacement available after Naval Tradition. Units damaged by a dromon take residual damage for 2 turns.

UI: Hippodrome: Zoo replacement. +1 extra amenity in addition to the Zoo’s amenity bonuses. +1 additional amenity should horses be harvested in a city with a hippodrome.

LA: Komnenian Restoration: Changing to a new government level grants one new trader and trade route capacity. All trade routes provide +2 gold, +1 science, +1 faith.

LUA: Varangian Guard: Replaces Pikemen. +20 garrison strength to a city that a Varangian guard is stationed in

Science would be bonkers. +11 Science with Synagogue and additional 2 science for ecstatic city... And you can build a regular Campus on top of that. Way too OP
Zoo comes too late (Industrial Era) Arena replacement would make more sense.

Data mining from the May 2020 update revealed some as-yet unused effects and abilities. One involves getting a free Eureka and Inspiration upon completing a trade route with a foreign civilization for the first time. Perhaps that will be part of Portugal's ability.

Interesting. It might be Ethiopian Axumite legacy as well.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Science would be bonkers. +11 Science with Synagogue and additional 2 science for ecstatic city... And you can build a regular Campus on top of that. Way too OP
Zoo comes too late (Industrial Era) Arena replacement would make more sense.


Interesting. It might be Ethiopian Axumite legacy as well.

Changed it to make the Hippodrome a improvement and make the ability a science choral music with the ecstatic bonus so synagogues don’t make them OP