* Ethiopia pretty much rules out Byzantium, if it is in NFP, getting a unique church thing or a faith-and-trade focus. It might have faith, it might have trade, but it won't have both and will more likely pivot toward culture, production, maybe science.
* Every year we have gotten precisely one production-oriented civ (Nubia, Scotland, Inca). Given the dearth of civs that would be strong production candidates, I think there is a very good chance that if we get Byzantium it will be a production-oriented civ. In retrospect I don't understand why this idea hasn't been pitched more because it actually makes quite a lot of sense to give Byzantium a strong, non-differentiated infrastructure from which it can then pursue any victory condition. (yes Portugal could also get a Feitoria but it just doesn't flavorfully feel like a "production" civ)
* We also tend to get about two-ish culture civs and at least one maritime civ, none of which have appeared thus far in NFP. As far as Europe goes it's pretty clear which civs would be cultural or maritime, but I hope that we get some variety like a Berber/Navajo cultural focus or a Vietnamese naval UU.
Actually I've thought that a good bonus for the Byzantines, probably Justinian or Theodora for obvious reasons, would be able to repair districts and buildings faster after being pillaged by units or natural disasters. Maybe using builder charges?
This is why I've always wanted the Tlingit or another PNW civ in the game because they'd obviously be a culture civ, which would be a major shakeup to how people view Native American civs.
I've also thought this might another reason why they went the Cree over the Haida in R&F. They obviously wanted the Mapuche in the game and maybe they thought that the Chemamull improvement would be to similar at the time to a totem (crest) pole and it was also a military geared Civ.
I've also thought this might another reason why they went the Cree over the Haida in R&F. They obviously wanted the Mapuche in the game and maybe they thought that the Chemamull improvement would be to similar at the time to a totem (crest) pole and it was also a military geared Civ.
TBH I've never understood the impulse to have any militaristic or raid-based emphasis for a PNW civ. Violence is part of human history, sure, but as far as human societies go the PNW was pretty peaceful and combat was fairly ritualistic. The northern PNW tribes dealt in slaves, but for the most part they traded for slaves from the Interior, from the Eskimo-Aleut peoples, or from the more aggressive Southern PNW tribes.
TBH I've never understood the impulse to have any militaristic or raid-based emphasis for a PNW civ. Violence is part of human history, sure, but as far as human societies go the PNW was pretty peaceful and combat was fairly ritualistic. The northern PNW tribes dealt in slaves, but for the most part they traded for slaves from the Interior, from the Eskimo-Aleut peoples, or from the more aggressive Southern PNW tribes.
The Haida were first and foremost traders, though. I could see a small boost to plundering or pillaging with the War Canoe, but I wouldn't build the civ around it.
The Haida were first and foremost traders, though. I could see a small boost to plundering or pillaging with the War Canoe, but I wouldn't build the civ around it.
I just know them as the Vikings of the PNW, then again Vikings traded too.
I'm sure the War Canoe would have been the main pillaging and plundering unit and that would have also made it similar to the Malon Raider.
In fact I feel like I'm just describing Norway.
I just know them as the Vikings of the PNW, then again Vikings traded too.
I'm sure the War Canoe would have been the main pillaging and plundering unit and that would have also made it similar to the Malon Raider.
In fact I feel like I'm just describing Norway.
Yeah, if I were designing them they wouldn't be anything like Norway: they'd be all about Food from unimproved bonus resources and lots and lots of Culture.
This is why I've always wanted the Tlingit or another PNW civ in the game because they'd obviously be a culture civ, which would be a major shakeup to how people view Native American civs.
The more I think about it the more I believe it was/is Haida or bust for that region. As far as marketing goes, all the options in the region have pretty small census polling and I haven't seen any signs yet of Firaxis moving away from quite calculatedly choosing large demographic affiliations. And with respect to ludohistorical harmony, the Haida are the only PNW option with a known history of expanding their influence beyond their home territory to become something resembling a regional power.
Until Firaxis deliberately moves away from both of these preferences, I think the odds of any PNW tribe outside the Haida getting an invitation are slim. :/
The more I think about it the more I believe it was/is Haida or bust for that region. As far as marketing goes, all the options in the region have pretty small census polling and I haven't seen any signs yet of Firaxis moving away from quite calculatedly choosing large demographic affiliations. And with respect to ludohistorical harmony, the Haida are the only PNW option with a known history of expanding their influence beyond their home territory to become something resembling a regional power.
Until Firaxis deliberately moves away from both of these preferences, I think the odds of any PNW tribe outside the Haida getting an invitation are slim. :/
In terms of regional power, I think the Haida and Tlingit are on pretty equal footing. Sure, the Haida traded as far south as California, but they weren't setting up colonies in California. Haida Gwaii is much smaller than Tlingit territory, and there are more Tlingit speakers living than Haida speakers. I think either is a long shot, though, and I wouldn't expect anyone other than the Haida or Tlingit.
In terms of regional power, I think the Haida and Tlingit are on pretty equal footing. Sure, the Haida traded as far south as California, but they weren't setting up colonies in California. Haida Gwaii is much smaller than Tlingit territory, and there are more Tlingit speakers living than Haida speakers. I think either is a long shot, though, and I wouldn't expect anyone other than the Haida or Tlingit.
Yeah but I don't think spreading out over a fairly small, unoccupied archielago would match the devs' standards for an "expansionist" culture. You are correct though that it might be easier to find a Tlingit speaker. I just don't feel very confident about anything from that region when there is easy money in something like the Navajo.
Also I just realized map-gap theory really really likes Shammuramat. Assuming the empire didn't really expand under Shamshi-Adad, the extent of the Assyrian empire during her reign stops quite elegantly near the borders of Sumer and Phoenicia.
Wait, which culture are we talking about? The Tlingit were chiefly on the mainland with a presence on the Alexander Archipelago; it was the Haida who were chiefly located on the Haida Gwaii archipelago.
Also I just realized map-gap theory really really likes Shammuramat. Assuming the empire didn't really expand under Shamshi-Adad, the extent of the Assyrian empire during her reign stops quite elegantly near the borders of Sumer and Phoenicia.
"She lost an incredible amount of territory" doesn't feel like a selling point. Also Alexander and Suleiman are laughing at the idea that the devs care if city-lists overlap.
"She lost an incredible amount of territory" doesn't feel like a selling point. Also Alexander and Suleiman are laughing at the idea that the devs care if city-lists overlap.
I'm sure everybody will lose their minds if Assyria becomes the anti-expansionist civ and gets bonuses for being conquered/losing tiles.
There's enough cities for Assyria to work with so there shouldn't be overlaps in city names with any other civ. At least it doesn't look like any from Civ 5 have any names that Sumeria or Phoenicia currently has.
Wait, which culture are we talking about? The Tlingit were chiefly on the mainland with a presence on the Alexander Archipelago; it was the Haida who were chiefly located on the Haida Gwaii archipelago.
The Tlingit were more archiplagic, and again it doesn't seem like they traded as far as the Haida. If the roster is limited to civs which regionally affected surrounding territory, I suspect the Tlingit don't quite cut it.
"She lost an incredible amount of territory" doesn't feel like a selling point. Also Alexander and Suleiman are laughing at the idea that the devs care if city-lists overlap.
I never said she lost territory, nor does Wikipedia? In fact it seems like mostly she is respected for holding the empire together and subjugating insurgent vassal states. At any rate, I can't find anything indicating she lost territory so much as maintained what expansions had been accomplished by 824 BC.
Obviously the very large empires don't really fit map-gap (although all of them except Macedonia do fit pretty comfortably into modern cultural/political regions: modern Mongolia, modern Turkey, modern England, etc.). But Assyria is of that convenient size which could slide into a map gap without treading on its neighbors, which I find particularly appealing with respect to Sumeria and also a more attractive option than Palmyra with respect to Phoenicia.
They didn't. The Haida were the intermediaries; they traded with everyone (along the coast). I was simply pointing out the Tlingit owned (considerably) more land than the Haida.
Obviously the very large empires don't really fit map-gap (although all of them except Macedonia do fit pretty comfortably into modern cultural/political regions: modern Mongolia, modern Turkey, modern England, etc.). But Assyria is of that convenient size which could slide into a map gap without treading on its neighbors, which I find particularly appealing with respect to Sumeria and also a more attractive option than Palmyra with respect to Phoenicia.
I don't think the map gap theory matters about where the territory expanded to, in the case of the Middle East, but where they start. In that regards Assyria is comfortable enough away from Sumer than Babylon is and far away from Phoenicia, who isn't going to expand inland at all but to North Africa.
Especially if the capital is Nineveh.
On Civ6's scale, Nineveh, Ashur, and Kalhu are all practically on top of each other, and I really can't imagine that they'd choose someone who ruled from any of Assyria's other capitals. (On which note, Shammuramat's capital would be Kalhu, not Nineveh.)
On Civ6's scale, Nineveh, Ashur, and Kalhu are all practically on top of each other, and I really can't imagine that they'd choose someone who ruled from any of Assyria's other capitals. (On which note, Shammuramat's capital would be Kalhu, not Nineveh.)
You'd think so, but Assyria only showed up in BNW because one of the devs had a special interest in Assyria. To my knowledge, that particular dev isn't there anymore. It seriously boggles my mind that one of the most important civilizations in history made it into a game called "Civilization" only in the fifth iteration because someone had a "special interest."
You'd think so, but Assyria only showed up in BNW because one of the devs had a special interest in Assyria. To my knowledge, that particular dev isn't there anymore. It seriously boggles my mind that one of the most important civilizations in history made it into a game called "Civilization" only in the fifth iteration because someone had a "special interest."
I have been thinking about potential civs for the NFP and how it would work if we did think of the NFP as an expansion broken up into pieces.
So, with that in mind, what if each of the packs represented a specific geographical region which is the trend we have seen so far (yes that might be coincidence nor correlation but hey let's role with it).
Okay, let's do this.
Pack 1 - This is Southern America or possible the Americas (if it is the latter it which would reduce the chance of there being another Indigenous civ from North America)
Pack 2 - This is Africa
Pack 5 - This one I think (if this pattern is real) we can safely say is East Asia, this is because the second leader needs R&F so it is likely Mongolia or possible Korea but both work for us here.
Now here is where things get a little more speculative.
Pack 3 - My gut says this one is probably Europe, but it could also be The Middle East or if me are getting super specific Anatolia
That just leaves the two civs from November and March, There is not a lot of the world left here, It could be from Oceania, South East Asia, Middle East, North America or some wildcard, my gut says that March is going to be Babylon and the Middle East but that is just a guess
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Also Alexander and Suleiman are laughing at the idea that the devs care if city-lists overlap. 
