[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[pokiehl]

The game needs more classical Hellenic civilizations IMO. I'd be thrilled with Seleucids, Pontus, etc.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I'd say that Lisbon also has a good chance of replacing Antioch as well, therefore giving us the Byzantines in this pack. Antioch is considered European in-game having replaced Amsterdam already and having the same Mediterranean architecture that both Lisbon and Venice have.

Now if its the Seleucids I give up on trying to predict anything else.

no more hellenic civs pls

if we need to have one at least give me medieval greek byzantines so it’s less boring

in regards to the GS leaker, they didn’t specify the native american civ, so it’s really 3 unexpected civs

 

[PhoenicianGold]

no more hellenic civs pls

if we need to have one at least give me medieval byzantines so it’s less boring

in regards to the GS leaker, they didn’t specify the native american civ, so it’s really 3 unexpected civs

I don't give the leak much credibility as far as predicting NFP specifically given that:

1) They only predicted returning staples that everyone was expecting (with the only exception being a vague "Native American" slot, which was also riding a safe line of expected versus unknown since we generally always get a Native American civ but no specific has become an outright staple to the franchise).

2) They didn't predict any specific new civs like GC or Vietnam. Not even where Vietnam was probably the safest prediction for a new civ by a mile.

My impression is that AssemblingTyphoon was aware of what civs were being considered and developed, but that the list was never finalized at the time. We probably had several newcoming civs being vetted and developed and at the time there was no assurance that Vietnam or GC would ultimately make it all the way to release over, say, Burma or the Buccaneers. I also think that they were attempting to maintain some degree of plausible deniability (which to my mind was too late after leaking GS), by not giving any more indicators that they might be on the inside.

It is also entirely possible that AssemblingTyphoon wasn't even talking about the next expack/season specifically, but was just generally listing the remaining civs the developers were really pushing to return to the game at the time, regardless of when they were ultimately released or if they all coincided to a single expansion. The idea being that even if he were wrong and some of them didn't appear in NFP, he would ultimately be proven correct if the game were completed a year or two down the line with even more content. I think this explanation is the most probable, personally.

All told, what I believe we can discern from the leak is that at the time Portugal, Byzantium, Babylon/Assyria, Maya, and Ethiopia were all being developed but because new civs hadn't been finalized any number of them could have been pushed back to a second season or cut altogether if the devs cobbled together enough strong designs for newer civs. I also think that a North American civ was definitely planned but for similar reasons could easily have been pushed back or cut by now just like the Haida or Genoa. Beyond that, I don't think there's much reason to believe that NFP was leaked by that post. If the leak had turned out to be a reliable prediction for NFP (or a proto-expack-3 that preceded it), I would have expected at least one specific new civ to be mentioned.

 

[Potworny]

My impression is that AssemblingTyphoon was aware of what civs were being considered and developed, but that the list was never finalized at the time. We probably had several newcoming civs being vetted and developed and at the time there was no assurance that Vietnam or GC would ultimately make it all the way to release over, say, Burma or the Buccaneers. I also think that they were attempting to maintain some degree of plausible deniability (which to my mind was too late after leaking GS), by not giving any more indicators that they might be on the inside.

By the way, don't you all think that the leaks lately were somewhat unimpressive? Compared to the base game leaders who were leaked in two separate ways and GS which had double the amount of leaders included revealed before the EP was even announced, the little ReadMe really pales. Say what you will about Firaxis and their PR department, I feel like they are getting more comfortable with our little games.

 

[Zaarin]

By the way, don't you all think that the leaks lately were somewhat unimpressive? Compared to the base game leaders who were leaked in two separate ways and GS which had double the amount of leaders included revealed before the EP was even announced, the little ReadMe really pales. Say what you will about Firaxis and their PR department, I feel like they are getting more comfortable with our little games.

I get the feeling Firaxis would like to be more communicative with us but 2K prevents them. I don't think the leaks were accidents or oversights, at least not the major ones like the leader poster.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

no more hellenic civs pls

if we need to have one at least give me medieval greek byzantines so it’s less boring

in regards to the GS leaker, they didn’t specify the native american civ, so it’s really 3 unexpected civs

I agree that the Byzantines would be the only other Hellenic civ that I would want/is needed. Just pointing out that it was the Seleucis, one of Alexander's generals who founded Antioch and it became the capital of the Seleucid Empire.

The leak also didn't specify whether it would be Assyria or Babylon either, just that one of them would be coming.

 

[8housesofelixir]

By the way, don't you all think that the leaks lately were somewhat unimpressive? Compared to the base game leaders who were leaked in two separate ways and GS which had double the amount of leaders included revealed before the EP was even announced, the little ReadMe really pales. Say what you will about Firaxis and their PR department, I feel like they are getting more comfortable with our little games.

I assume that's because Kublai and Vietnam are long been requested by the community. If the leak was a somewhat black horse candidate it would surely be more impressive.

 

[WillowBrook]

If it's the Seleucids I'm rioting. That would be our fifth Classical Hellene, sixth if you count the Romans as semi-Hellenized.

I want to see @Zaarin riot.

If it means some fan favorites are getting pushed to another season pass, I'm all for another Greek civ.

 

[Potworny]

I assume that's because Kublai and Vietnam are long been requested by the community. If the leak was a somewhat black horse candidate it would surely be more impressive.

I really like Vietnam and Kublai, what I mean is the scale of the leaks, they used to be spectacular and really unique as far as video game leaks go

 

[Birch617]

I personally wouldn't mind another hellenistic Civ if it was like the Plotemies, but tbh that highly unlikely for this game, unless they did a dlc where they add a new civ and a new leader, but those two aren't connect to each other so like Hatshepsut for base game Egypt and Cleopatra for the Plotemies idk

 

[PhoenicianGold]

By the way, don't you all think that the leaks lately were somewhat unimpressive? Compared to the base game leaders who were leaked in two separate ways and GS which had double the amount of leaders included revealed before the EP was even announced, the little ReadMe really pales. Say what you will about Firaxis and their PR department, I feel like they are getting more comfortable with our little games.

Well even the official hints have stagnated a lot. We had full on trailers for R&F, and then leader backgrounds and livestream clues for GS. Here, we had Menelik outright confirmed for Ethiopia, and now have nothing but a Venice city-state to go off for the 3rd expack.

But yes, it doesn't seem like we've had any real leak for this season beyond the patch notes accident, and that wasn't the result of willful NDA breach like the leaks for the first two expansions.

I agree that the Byzantines would be the only other Hellenic civ that I would want/is needed. Just pointing out that it was the Seleucis, one of Alexander's generals who founded Antioch and it became the capital of the Seleucid Empire.

The leak also didn't specify whether it would be Assyria or Babylon either, just that one of them would be coming.

I still would prefer the Byzantines represent the Hellenic side of Rome (just like Eleanor represents the Norman side of England or Gandhi represents the British side of India (weird as that is to say and I still dislike him)), rather than be yet another Hellenistic civ. That's completely irrespective of whether Byzantium can or should be its own thing; as a matter of VI presenting a more interesting, faceted view of civs it just feels like the more intriguing route the devs should have taken.

I personally wouldn't mind another hellenistic Civ if it was like the Plotemies, but tbh that highly unlikely for this game, unless they did a dlc where they add a new civ and a new leader, but those two aren't connect to each other so like Hatshepsut for base game Egypt and Cleopatra for the Plotemies idk

Well Ptolemaic Egypt is basically that so as far as I'm concerned Egypt in the game is half Hellenistic anyway. Especially with something like the sphinx as a UU.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Well Ptolemaic Egypt is basically that so as far as I'm concerned Egypt in the game is half Hellenistic anyway. Especially with something like the sphinx as a UU.

Not quite: the Egyptian Sphinx is distinctly Egyptian - it is male and wingless, as opposed to the Greek Sphinx that is female and winged. It's not the UI i would choose for Egypt but it is definitely a very Egyptian, not Hellenistic feature.

 

[Potworny]

But yes, it doesn't seem like we've had any real leak for this season beyond the patch notes accident, and that wasn't the result of willful NDA breach like the leaks for the first two expansions.

I still wonder why did these NDA breaches even happen. Guess I'm adding it to my Civ VI mystery list.

That being said, I really wish we had invested more resources into memeing Noongar (or another Aboriginal Australian civ) into existence.

 

[Zaarin]

I personally wouldn't mind another hellenistic Civ if it was like the Plotemies, but tbh that highly unlikely for this game, unless they did a dlc where they add a new civ and a new leader, but those two aren't connect to each other so like Hatshepsut for base game Egypt and Cleopatra for the Plotemies idk

There's really no good way to portray the post-Alexandrian empires in a game like Civ. I'd prefer Firaxis refrain from trying in the future. (Though I do welcome giving Alexander his own Macedon. As DLC. That's a tradition that can stay.)

I really wish we had invested more resources into memeing Noongar (or another Aboriginal Australian civ) into existence.

They're already in the game, along with the Inuit: Barbarians and Tribal Villages.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I still would prefer the Byzantines represent the Hellenic side of Rome (just like Eleanor represents the Norman side of England or Gandhi represents the British side of India (weird as that is to say and I still dislike him)), rather than be yet another Hellenistic civ. That's completely irrespective of whether Byzantium can or should be its own thing; as a matter of VI presenting a more interesting, faceted view of civs it just feels like the more intriguing route the devs should have taken.

Whether the Byzantines are representing a Hellenistic side of Rome or not, they should still be in somehow due to their merits and place in world history.

Well Ptolemaic Egypt is basically that so as far as I'm concerned Egypt in the game is half Hellenistic anyway. Especially with something like the sphinx as a UU.

I missed the part of where they get a Sphinx UU. Do enemy units gain damage when they don't solve the riddle?

That being said, I really wish we had invested more resources into memeing Noongar (or another Aboriginal Australian civ) into existence.

Some memes should stay memes including this one.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I still wonder why did these NDA breaches even happen. Guess I'm adding it to my Civ VI mystery list.

That being said, I really wish we had invested more resources into memeing Noongar (or another Aboriginal Australian civ) into existence.

given that aboriginal peoples are generally opposed to depiction of the dead, im guessing this would be difficult if not outright impossible to do

By the way, don't you all think that the leaks lately were somewhat unimpressive? Compared to the base game leaders who were leaked in two separate ways and GS which had double the amount of leaders included revealed before the EP was even announced, the little ReadMe really pales. Say what you will about Firaxis and their PR department, I feel like they are getting more comfortable with our little games.

GS originally had double the leaders? Who were the ones that got cut

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

GS originally had double the leaders? Who were the ones that got cut

There was a first leak that originally had different leaders for some of the civs: Arpad for Hungary, Roxelana for Ottomans, Atahualpa for Inca and Hongi Hika for Maori.
Though it also had the Noongar as a civ.
I'm not sure if that is the reference or not, but it makes the most plausible sense.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

There was a first leak that originally had different leaders for some of the civs: Arpad for Hungary, Roxelana for Ottomans, Atahualpa for Inca and Hongi Hika for Maori.
Though it also had the Noongar as a civ.
I'm not sure if that is the reference or not, but it makes the most plausible sense.

Thank god they didn’t pick Atahualpa, although Arpad and Roxelana would’ve been really cool, and imo, Honga Hika would’ve been an even better choice

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I still wonder why did these NDA breaches even happen. Guess I'm adding it to my Civ VI mystery list.

Clearly it was a two strikes policy. First time was a warning, second time was decisive. First breacher got fired. Second breacher got flayed, quartered, and transformed into an Aztec builder.

That being said, I really wish we had invested more resources into memeing Noongar (or another Aboriginal Australian civ) into existence.

They're already in the game, along with the Inuit: Barbarians and Tribal Villages.

The Noongar are kind of in a similar boat as the Inuit (other than the Inuit being an insanely popular idea). They would by far be the best aboriginal civ and have just barely enough to scrape together a civ design, but not without a lot of stretching that many would find implausible. I wouldn't mind an Inuit/Noongar double pack just to fill out some cultural gaps, make it one of the last DLC packs so players can ignore it if they think the idea is too dumb.

Whether the Byzantines are representing a Hellenistic side of Rome or not, they should still be in somehow due to their merits and place in world history.

Oh yeah, I don't dispute this. I could live without them because they aren't a very inspired addition to the roster, but I do think at minimum any game trying to be a grand tour of history would not feel complete without at minimum a Byzantine leader for Rome.

I also think to some extent the opportunity to make the kind of Rome civ that facilitates themes of political change-ups and cultural evolution has generally been long passed, barring a complete overhaul of the Rome civ as it exists. While I want Rome to be more like how France/England and Greece and India are portrayed in the game, that kind of elegant theming is directly contradicted by lazy pop history split-offs like Scotland, Macedonia, and Nubia being in the game. At this point, in a game where we have a very British Scotland as a civ separate from England but the very French Angevins as a civ contiguous with England, there is absolutely no way to include Byzantium without it feeling simultaneously synchronous and dissonant with the rest of the game's design.

 

[LoneRebel]

What would be really interesting if Feitorias work somewhat like Civ 3’s colonies (with added restrictions): you get 1/2 per continent, and they grab the first adjacent ring as a colony with workable tiles. No production, but the tiles directly around the feitoria are workable and the feitoria itself serves as a trading post. For the sake of simplicity (if you have RF or GS) I don’t think loyalty mechanics should apply to them unless you place them near cities which are already exerting pressure. If they are already settled and then someone settles nearby no loyalty pressure is applied. I also think it would be cool if they were named after irl portuguese colonies (with the exception of brazil ofc)—so Mozambican, Angolan cities, plus Cape Verde, Goa, Togo, Timor, and a couple of others.

So I've been thinking about this and in this vein, here's a possible civ ability/leader ability I've been thinking of, but I can't think of which civ it could apply to. I just like the idea in general.

Something along the lines of: Cities can buy a tile four hexes out at a very high gold cost (how high exactly I don't know), and work such hexes. (I also considered the possibility of letting cities culturally claim such tiles, but I ruled it out, so it's just gold now).

Why? Because, don't you ever have those times where you have some juicy resources four hexes away from one of your cities, and it is either impossible, too awkward, or not worth it to settle another city just to grab that resource? Happens to me all the time, especially with water resources. So this is just something I've been considering.