[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Xandinho]

What I expect Portugal can receive:

Naval units with more movement and sight;
Trade routes receiving extra gold when crossing ocean tiles;
Great explorers as a kind of unique great people;
Cities on other continents granting extra gold;
Some kind of bonus for harbor district;
One extra trade route limit after mercantilism.

If Portugal used RF resources, I'd expect it getting extra era points when discovering new continents, natural wonders and civilizations and loyalty in cities on other contitnents.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What I expect Portugal can receive:

Naval units with more movement and sight;
Trade routes receiving extra gold when crossing ocean tiles;
Great explorers as a kind of unique great people;
Cities on other continents granting extra gold;
Some kind of bonus for harbor district;
One extra trade route limit after mercantilism.

If Portugal used RF resources, I'd expect it getting extra era points when discovering new continents, natural wonders and civilizations and loyalty in cities on other contitnents.

What I'd also like to add is the possibility of naval units gaining experience from exploration like recon units and the possibility of maybe the Great Explorers could use a charge to build a feitoria.

 

[Zaarin]

I don't know much about ships but gameplay wise I woudn't be surprised if we got the Nau again and they just made it a faster version of the caravel, but still stronger.

Well, I guess it's not as bad as AoE3's depiction of the fluyt, which was categorically not a warship but a very efficient merchant vessel.

Oh and Teddy was born in New York City, so that does somewhat make him a native American.

Capitalization matters.

 

[Txomin]

I like that idea of naval units gaining experience from exploration. Maybe they could let all naval units explore coastal villages. It'd be a minor thing but fun.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

What I expect Portugal can receive:

Naval units with more movement and sight;
Trade routes receiving extra gold when crossing ocean tiles;
Great explorers as a kind of unique great people;
Cities on other continents granting extra gold;
Some kind of bonus for harbor district;
One extra trade route limit after mercantilism.

If Portugal used RF resources, I'd expect it getting extra era points when discovering new continents, natural wonders and civilizations and loyalty in cities on other contitnents.

Great Explorers could just be the naval Portuguese equivalent to GC's Comandante Generals, which I am kind of okay with as a matter of game balance. (though, to be fair, neither Portugal nor GC feel like they deserve unique great persons at every era...that was a flavor fail for me).

Cities on other continents granting extra gold feels only slightly like a variation on Spain's Treasure Fleet. I would prefer something a bit more distinguished from that.

I would also prefer we not have yet another colonial civ with a harbor bonus (England, Dutch, Phoenicia). I think there are other ways around that like how Indonesia has island bonuses and a UI that can be built on the water or how the Maori can culture bomb ocean tiles. We still do not have a UI that is required to be built on the coast, so that does feel like the natural niche for a Feitoria. And perhaps it gets adjacency bonuses from city centers and harbors.

The rest of the bonuses make quite a lot of sense to me, though. I think naval units with movement/sight/exploration bonuses seems quite likely, as well as great explorers. Expanded trade routes and maybe some sort of trade-route based loyalty buff might help so players don't feel compelled to cluster cities next to each other. And just simply adding more trade routes seems very Portuguese as well. Make it a kind of soft version of Venice.

 

[Bast]

So is Vietnam a done deal or does Burma have a chance to get in?

Finland should be a new civ also. They could have adjacency bonses for woods and bonuses for leaving old growth forests in tact.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well, I guess it's not as bad as AoE3's depiction of the fluyt, which was categorically not a warship but a very efficient merchant vessel.


Capitalization matters.

the Port Royal game gets the Fluyt right: it's the most profitable trading vessel in the game, but no warship at all.

The Nau wasn't particularly faster than earlier Caravels, but it was big enough to carry enough supplies that half or more of the crew wouldn't be dead of starvation or thirst before they got across the Indian Ocean - it was the ship that made the spice trade to Indonesia, largely by-passing all the 'middle men', possible. A Caravel that can establish Trade Routes (possibly by exchanging the Caravel/Nau for a Trade Route to keep it from being OP) across the Ocean for Portugal might be a good Game Mechanic for it.

New Yorkers aren't really native or Native Americans (Fun Fact: no Native Americans actually lived on Manhatten Island - it was neutral territory/hunting grounds only between the New England Algonkians and the Haudenosaunee). I've lived in New York City, and they are in a Klass by themselves . . .

 

[PhoenicianGold]

So is Vietnam a done deal or does Burma have a chance to get in?

Finland should be a new civ also. They could have adjacency bonses for woods and bonuses for leaving old growth forests in tact.

Finland really feels like a city-state juxtaposed against Sweden, just like how Armenia is subordinated to Georgia, Lithuania to Poland, Wales and Ireland to England and Scotland, etc. etc. I'm anticipating a Helsinki or Turku city-state.

I think if we get a second season of DLC, Burma is highly likely. I say this based on how sparse SE Asia is populated by city-states. At the moment, mainland SEA has no city-states. We have no representation of Pagan, or Bangkok/Ayutthaya, Kuala Lumpur, Dhaka, Tondo. This is very jarring juxtaposed against how dense Central America, the British Isles, Italy, and the Guinea Coast are with city-states. What this seems to indicate to me is:

1) The devs aren't sure which or how many civs they want to put here yet. Several might be in development and in order to keep their options open and not reveal their hand too early to speculators they have foregone including any city-states for strong civ candidates, which SEA is very dense with.

2) As a consequence of this, they have been putting the region off until they are able to flesh it out, and will likely add several city-states to the region once they consider it complete. That is, until we see most of these missing city-states appear as city-states or be elevated to appear as civs, the devs likely are not developing the region and therefore have not completed the game.

Brief conclusion: until we see a Pagan city-state I think Burma's chances are still quite alive.

Afterthought: What do people think about a Pagan city-state that lets the suze build payas? Would that be a happy compromise?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So is Vietnam a done deal or does Burma have a chance to get in?

I would say it's all but officially confirmed considering the leak from the actual game files.

Finland really feels like a city-state juxtaposed against Sweden, just like how Armenia is subordinated to Georgia, Lithuania to Poland, Wales and Ireland to England and Scotland, etc. etc. I'm anticipating a Helsinki or Turku city-state.

I think if we get a second season of DLC, Burma is highly likely. I say this based on how sparse SE Asia is populated by city-states. At the moment, mainland SEA has no city-states. We have no representation of Pagan, or Bangkok/Ayutthaya, Kuala Lumpur, Dhaka, Tondo. This is very jarring juxtaposed against how dense Central America, the British Isles, Italy, and the Guinea Coast are with city-states. What this seems to indicate to me is:

1) The devs aren't sure which or how many civs they want to put here yet. Several might be in development and in order to keep their options open and not reveal their hand too early to speculators they have foregone including any city-states for strong civ candidates, which SEA is very dense with.

2) As a consequence of this, they have been putting the region off until they are able to flesh it out, and will likely add several city-states to the region once they consider it complete. That is, until we see most of these missing city-states appear as city-states or be elevated to appear as civs, the devs likely are not developing the region and therefore the game.

Brief conclusion: until we see a Pagan city-state I think Burma's chances are still quite alive.

Afterthought: What do people think about a Pagan city-state that lets the suze build payas? Would that be a happy compromise?

In that case forget a Pagan city-state and give us Bangkok with a Floating Market UI.

I'm sort of expecting either Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, or Kiev to pop up for Europe and maybe Lhasa, Bangkok or Pagan to pop up for East Asia.

I think North America could use another city-state too as Cahokia is currently the only Native American city-state. A Mesa Verde city-state or a Haida one would be nice. Of course either Nassau or Port Royal for a "pirate" city would also be great.

Maybe a South African city state too whether it be Cape Town, Pretoria, or Johannesburg.

 

[LoneRebel]

They already can culturally claim such tiles as cultural expansion may reach up to 5 tiles from a city

Correct, that totally slipped my mind while I was writing that post, sorry.

Cities can culturally claim tiles up to 5 tiles away, but they can't buy tiles more than 3 tiles away from a city. I think that would be an interesting ability.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

In that case forget a Pagan city-state and give us Bangkok with a Floating Market UI.

I'm sorry but I can't get behind this unless we get Burma as a full-on civ. I need my paya porn.

I'm sort of expecting either Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, or Kiev to pop up for Europe and maybe Lhasa, Bangkok or Pagan to pop up for East Asia.

I'm hoping for all of those except Kiev, really. Which I would still be fine with but I really want Olga leading Russia, or alternatively a Russia clone civ led by Olga.

I think North America could use another city-state too as Cahokia is currently the only Native American city-state. A Mesa Verde city-state or a Haida one would be nice. Of course either Nassau or Port Royal for a "pirate" city would also be great.

Both of these. New Providence could also work as a pirate city.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

1) The devs aren't sure which or how many civs they want to put here yet. Several might be in development and in order to keep their options open and not reveal their hand too early to speculators they have foregone including any city-states for strong civ candidates, which SEA is very dense with

I would personally place in order of what I want to see in SEA post-Vietnam: Champa, Lan Xang/Laos, Burma, Thailand, but all of them are very much appreciated. So it isn’t to say I don’t like/want Burma or Thailand, I just want Champa and Lan Xang more. I’d want city state fill-ins for the civs out of that list that miss out. Sukhothai or Ayuthaya for Thailand, Vientiane for Laos/Lan Xang and Indrapura for the Champa.

Burma, mechanically, linguistically and semi-culturally can also serve as a stand-in for Tibet as well, which is a plus for them, being added to being a cool civ to begin with

In that case forget a Pagan city-state and give us Bangkok with a Floating Market UI.

A city-state unique district would be really cool.

I think North America could use another city-state too as Cahokia is currently the only Native American city-state. A Mesa Verde city-state or a Haida one would be nice. Of course either Nassau or Port Royal for a "pirate" city would also be great.

Maybe a South African city state too whether it be Cape Town, Pretoria, or Johannesburg.

I’m about to post my list of ideal north american city states rn: Wappatoo (commercial), Iqualit (cultural), Prophetstown (religious), Mesa Verde (commercial), Tzintzuntzan (Industrial/Scientific), Bluefields (cultural), Nassau (war), Havana (cultural)

For Africa, I’d add Tete (war/commercial), Cape Town (cultural), Sofala (commercial), Mogadishu (war/commercial)

For Europe, I’d add Vienna (cultural), Rovaniemi (industrial), Kiev (religious), Belgrade (War), Prague (cultural) and Copenhagen (scientific)

For Asia, I’d add Jaffna (commercial), move Thanjavur to a city state if we don’t get the chola and make it (religious), Pagan (religious), Ayuthaya (commercial), Baikonur (scientific), Samarqand (commercial), Lhasa (religious), Dhaka (industrial), Kathmandu (religious), Indrapura (religious), Vientiane (cultural), Sana’a (Commercial), Baku (industrial), Washukunni (scientific), Anshan (cultural), Ghazna (war), Bukhara (commercial), Singhapala Cebu (cultural)

For Oceania, Mu’a (war) and Honolulu (industrial)

 

[8housesofelixir]

In that case forget a Pagan city-state and give us Bangkok with a Floating Market UI.

All in for the floating market.

"People living entirely on the water" is a very distinct feature of Southeast Asia and even parts of the East Asia (Tanka people). They are like nomadic people on the sea. Currently kampung is a good representation of them, but more interesting sea-based improvements are always worth expecting.

For Asia, I’d add Jaffna (commercial), move Thanjavur to a city state if we don’t get the chola and make it (religious), Pagan (religious), Ayuthaya (commercial), Baikonur (scientific), Samarqand (commercial), Lhasa (religious), Dhaka (industrial), Kathmandu (religious), Indrapura (religious), Vientiane (cultural), Sana’a (Commercial), Baku (industrial), Washukunni (scientific), Anshan (cultural), Ghazna (war), Bukhara (commercial), Singhapala Cebu (cultural)

The Shanghai International Settlement (united concessions of Shanghai) can be a dark horse Asian CS choice, historically it was far more autonomous and more influential than Hong Kong or Singapore for nearly a century.

Although I must admit that only historical nerds will probably dream of it; and the full name of it is probably too long for the in-game city labels.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

For Asia, I’d add Jaffna (commercial), move Thanjavur to a city state if we don’t get the chola and make it (religious), Pagan (religious), Ayuthaya (commercial), Baikonur (scientific), Samarqand (commercial), Lhasa (religious), Dhaka (industrial), Kathmandu (religious), Indrapura (religious), Vientiane (cultural), Sana’a (Commercial), Baku (industrial), Washukunni (scientific), Anshan (cultural), Ghazna (war), Bukhara (commercial), Singhapala Cebu (cultural)

Fun thing about some of these. Bagan and Samarkand already appear in the Path to Nirvana scenario, as do other strong city-state options like Vijaya and Tondo. Same with the Poland scenario including Prague and Vienna.

The weird thing is that we haven't had any of these clearly strong choices for city-states included as full city-states outside of the scenarios, possibly suggesting that they were never intended to be included in the full game. But the biggest contradiction to this is that Byblos, one of the main cities for Phoenicia, appeared in the Nile scenario and didn't prevent Phoenicia from happening. But that's not quite the same as having two different versions of the same city-state in the game.

 

[ferretbacon]

The Nau wasn't particularly faster than earlier Caravels, but it was big enough to carry enough supplies that half or more of the crew wouldn't be dead of starvation or thirst before they got across the Indian Ocean - it was the ship that made the spice trade to Indonesia, largely by-passing all the 'middle men', possible. A Caravel that can establish Trade Routes (possibly by exchanging the Caravel/Nau for a Trade Route to keep it from being OP) across the Ocean for Portugal might be a good Game Mechanic for it.

It would, I believe, be a novel trade route mechanic (and what an over-represented mechanic it is) if Portugal was able to connect any two harbor cities via trade route regardless of distance, perhaps after some sort of mid game trigger.

 

[Futumch]

I'm quite pleased that Portugal seems to be a lock as one of the next Civs. Ferretbacon's post (immediately above this one) is a pretty novel idea too.

I should make some Caldo Verde to celebrate!

 

[Ticio]

What I'd also like to add is the possibility of naval units gaining experience from exploration like recon units and the possibility of maybe the Great Explorers could use a charge to build a feitoria.

I find this one a very good idea!


A question for everyone! Should Portugal have a land UU or just a naval UU?

It would, I believe, be a novel trade route mechanic (and what an over-represented mechanic it is) if Portugal was able to connect any two harbor cities via trade route regardless of distance, perhaps after some sort of mid game trigger.

In other post I suggested as an example of new Great person a great merchant or great admiral that could double the tiles for commerce (15 (land)/30 (water) = 30 (land)/ 60 (water)). Maybe and ability like that could be implemented to the Portuguese.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Like a lot of people said, Portugal bonuses might overlap with other colonial/maritime powers. With the Dutch, England, Spain, Indonesia, Maoris, Norway, all that we think about (trade routes, harbors, coast). So what could make them unique?

Feitoria: as a lot of people said, a vampire castle-like on coast sucking luxury resources would be awesome.

And this is what I was thinking also. Portugal's shtick is exploration even more than colonization. Dutch, Spain and England did the colonization part, but the exploration theme is quite lacking... So I'm proposing those abilities for Portugal based around exploration:

1. Trigger 1 random Eureka and Inspiration each time you discover a Natural Wonder or a new continent. Trigger one additional Eureka and Inspiration during the Renaissance Era and forward.
(could be also for when you discover a new civ or a new city-State too, but might be too OP)
2. Each time you discover a Natural Wonder, gain 1 scouting unit, 1 trader unit and 1 trade route capacity. Each NW discovered give +1 Amenity in each city, and 1 additional Amenity if you own this NW.
3. Gain a small amount of gold, science, culture and faith each time a naval unit discover a new maritime/coastal tile (scaled with era).
For example, at the beginning of the game, each time a tile is drawn on your map by a naval unit, gain 1 science, 1 culture, 4 gold and 2 faith.

Those are just some random ideas, but I think it would give Portugal a flavor like none we already have in the game and really making you focus on exploration itself rather than just a byproduct of the game.

 

[Jeppetto]

I like that idea of naval units gaining experience from exploration. Maybe they could let all naval units explore coastal villages. It'd be a minor thing but fun.

Don't the naval units which may pop tribal village do it through pillage ability? That has always seem to funny to me. Pillage tribe which then gladly shares their technological secrets.

The Shanghai International Settlement (united concessions of Shanghai) can be a dark horse Asian CS choice, historically it was far more autonomous and more influential than Hong Kong or Singapore for nearly a century.

Although I must admit that only historical nerds will probably dream of it; and the full name of it is probably too long for the in-game city labels.

They'd just call it Shanghai most of the time where it wouldn't fit (by length). USA also uses the term "American" such as American Empire where needed.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Don't the naval units which may pop tribal village do it through pillage ability? That has always seem to funny to me. Pillage tribe which then gladly shares their technological secrets.

I like to think of it as extortion. Give us the secrets of Industrialization or we'll burn your primitive huts to the ground.

Imagine what your unit is doing when you get a free Builder.