[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The one pillar pagoda and Van Mieu are names of singular sites though, they are not names of structures, so within the context of the game, they are more fit for Wonders than unique infrastructure of a civ. I mean, if one-pillar pagodas are built everywhere as a recognizable structure of Vietnam, then sure, but there is only one. Same goes for Van Mieu, it is the name of the first Vietnamese imperial university, and as the term "the first" suggests, the name "Van Mieu" is only used to specify that one school, so not exactly the infrastructure material.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The one pillar pagoda and Van Mieu are names of singular sites though, they are not names of structures, so within the context of the game, they are more fit for Wonders than unique infrastructure of a civ. I mean, if one-pillar pagodas are built everywhere as a recognizable structure of Vietnam, then sure, but there is only one. Same goes for Van Mieu, it is the name of the first Vietnamese imperial university, and as the term "the first" suggests, the name "Van Mieu" is only used to specify that one school, so not exactly the infrastructure material.

I mean we have the Grand Bazaar for the Ottomans, the Sukiennice for Poland, and arguably the Great Wall for China, which are all single structures but are still unique to the civ.
I don't think being a singular structure disqualifies it at this point. That being said nothing is stopping a Mieu from appearing which the design could be based off of the Van Mieu.

 

[8housesofelixir]

and arguably the Great Wall for China

This one is actually a plural. Most of the major states in the Warring States period, Qin, Northern Dynasties, Ming, all built their own Great Walls. Ming, for instance, constructed at least 4 different Great Walls - the outer wall (the one you usually see in the pictures), the inner wall (the second line for the outer wall), the southern wall (for defending against southern natives such as Miao people), and the coastal wall (for defending against pirates).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This one is actually a plural. Most of the major states in the Warring States period, Qin, Northern Dynasties, Ming, all built their own Great Walls. Ming, for instance, constructed at least 4 different Great Walls - the outer wall (the one you usually see in the pictures), the inner wall (the second line for the outer wall), the southern wall (for defending against southern natives such as Miao people), and the coastal wall (for defending against pirates).

Which is why I said it was arguable. Even though it's separate sections that were built at different times, it's collectively called the Great Wall.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I think Vietnam's UI cannot be anything else other than the Water Puppet Theater, really. But maybe Firaxis can surprise me. If the WPT is their UI, they must skew towards a culture vic somehow.

I thought it might be a replacement of Amphethere like Marae for Maori.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I mean we have the Grand Bazaar for the Ottomans, the Sukiennice for Poland, and arguably the Great Wall for China, which are all single structures but are still unique to the civ.
I don't think being a singular structure disqualifies it at this point. That being said nothing is stopping a Mieu from appearing which the design could be based off of the Van Mieu.

I think the only case where the "building" is truly a singular structure is the Sukiennice. I mean Grand Bazaars can easily be renamed to just Bazaar like how it was in Civ5 for Arabia and it will just mean "Persian/Islamic market". Because of the cities expanding outward in Civ6, I'm fine to have the Great Walls divided into multiple sections to be an improvement. Now that I think about it, I don't think Sukiennice is a great choice but not necessarily a great name for a unique building, because the term Sukiennice specifies one specific place. I guess it will make more sense for a building to have a more general name, to suggest that it can be built in more than one site, to be more representative of the country I suppose. Vietnamese culture is drastically different from north to south that it is hard to think of something truly representative of the country, like the Water Puppet Theater is 100% northern, if you've ever been to one, every performance strictly reflects people in the rural areas of the north, while something like floating markets (almost) strictly represent the south, because they have very high lake and river density.

 

[Birch617]

I thought it might be a replacement of Amphethere like Marae for Maori.

I would like if the Watter Puppet Teather was a replacement for the Teather Square, most be build adjcent to a river, get +2 culture on flood plains, all farms on the same group of floodplains become immune to be damaged by flooding (the district is also immune) and get +1 ammenities from floods (caps at +3)

 

[notNamed]

The one pillar pagoda and Van Mieu are names of singular sites though, they are not names of structures, so within the context of the game, they are more fit for Wonders than unique infrastructure of a civ. I mean, if one-pillar pagodas are built everywhere as a recognizable structure of Vietnam, then sure, but there is only one. Same goes for Van Mieu, it is the name of the first Vietnamese imperial university, and as the term "the first" suggests, the name "Van Mieu" is only used to specify that one school, so not exactly the infrastructure material.

The one-pillar pagoda is the only one left of its kind, but the structure wasn't the only one ever built. We have at least one confirmed example of remains from an earlier one built elsewhere. The others simply ended up destroyed, just as this one was (only this one kept being rebuilt).
Likewise, van mieu (文廟) is not a name of a singular structure in the slightest, but a sort of temple-academy in much the same way as seowons are in Korea. The famous one is in Hanoi, but there's also one in Bắc Ninh, Vĩnh Phúc, Sơn Tây, Xích Đằng, Mao Điền and so on. Vietnamese wiki has a list of 11 surviving examples.

Now that I think about it, I don't think Sukiennice is a great choice but not necessarily a great name for a unique building, because the term Sukiennice specifies one specific place. I guess it will make more sense for a building to have a more general name, to suggest that it can be built in more than one site, to be more representative of the country I suppose.

Sukiennice is a generic term for a specific kind of a market building. Similarly to the example of van mieu, these have sprung up around all of PLC and Polish wiki has a (non-exhaustive?) list of examples. A nice one is the one in Przystajń, which is now used as the town hall and is visible somewhat of a point of pride for the town.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think the only case where the "building" is truly a singular structure is the Sukiennice. I mean Grand Bazaars can easily be renamed to just Bazaar like how it was in Civ5 for Arabia and it will just mean "Persian/Islamic market". Because of the cities expanding outward in Civ6, I'm fine to have the Great Walls divided into multiple sections to be an improvement. Now that I think about it, I don't think Sukiennice is a great choice but not necessarily a great name for a unique building, because the term Sukiennice specifies one specific place. I guess it will make more sense for a building to have a more general name, to suggest that it can be built in more than one site, to be more representative of the country I suppose. Vietnamese culture is drastically different from north to south that it is hard to think of something truly representative of the country, like the Water Puppet Theater is 100% northern, if you've ever been to one, every performance strictly reflects people in the rural areas of the north, while something like floating markets (almost) strictly represent the south, because they have very high lake and river density.

I did forget to mention the Copacabana for Brazil, which is indeed a single neighborhood in Rio De Janeiro.
As for the Grand Bazaar I'm fine with the name considering the only one is located in Istanbul, which does make it unique, even though you can build multiple.
That being said I agree that the Water Puppet Theater is the most likely given the circumstances though I wouldn't mind building one pillar pagodas either. As long as it's not a generic monument replacement.

I would like if the Watter Puppet Teather was a replacement for the Teather Square, most be build adjcent to a river, get +2 culture on flood plains, all farms on the same group of floodplains become immune to be damaged by flooding (the district is also immune) and get +1 ammenities from floods (caps at +3)

That's similar to what I thought of though I had it as a unique improvement buildable on flood plains instead of a unique theater square. Instead of amenities it got +1 culture every time the tile flooded.

Sukiennice is a generic term for a specific kind of a market building. Similarly to the example of van mieu, these have sprung up around all of PLC and Polish wiki has a (non-exhaustive?) list of examples. A nice one is the one in Przystajń, which is now used as the town hall and is visible somewhat of a point of pride for the town.

Well color me surprised. I guess you only get the one in Krakow when you google in English.

 

[Birch617]

That's similar to what I thought of though I had it as a unique improvement buildable on flood plains instead of a unique theater square. Instead of amenities it got +1 culture every time the tile flooded.

Yeah i kind remember that, but i based the idea of amenities on the origin of the water puppet theatre, been a way to keep up the moral after loosing crops from the floods (also gameplay wise it would help with war wearinnes if Vietnam is a Culture and Domination civ)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah i kind remember that, but i based the idea of amenities on the origin of the water puppet theatre, been a way to keep up the moral after loosing crops from the floods (also gameplay wise it would help with war wearinnes if Vietnam is a Culture and Domination civ)

I guess if they are military oriented it would be good if they provided amenities too.

 

[almughavar]

Yeah I remember suggesting Water Puppet Theater as an UB of Entertainment District which replacing the Arena.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Yeah I remember suggesting Water Puppet Theater as an UB of Entertainment District which replacing the Arena.

Please no... I don't want Vietnam to have a useless building that no one wants to build lol

 

[8housesofelixir]

Please no... I don't want Vietnam to have a useless building that no one wants to build lol

EC itself and EC series buildings really need to provide at least +2 Amenities or at least +3 other yields.

 

[Abaxial]

The problem is that not every civilisation HAS a unique building in reality.

 

[almughavar]

Please no... I don't want Vietnam to have a useless building that no one wants to build lol

But I build Entertainment Districts all the times.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Please no... I don't want Vietnam to have a useless building that no one wants to build lol

Even if it replaces the arena, that doesn't mean the building would be useless.
Unless you mean you never build EC's then that would be a problem.

I honestly think it will be a unique improvement though buildable on floodplains but we'll see.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Even if it replaces the arena, that doesn't mean the building would be useless.
Unless you mean you never build EC's then that would be a problem.

I honestly think it will be a unique improvement though buildable on floodplains but we'll see.

Unless you are playing as a civ with Amenity bonus, reaching Ecstatic just on ECs and Arenas alone is pretty much impossible. Arena is the still the worst building in the game, unless you want to build the Colosseum early, it is never worth building it immediately after it is unlocked.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Unless you are playing as a civ with Amenity bonus, reaching Ecstatic just on ECs and Arenas alone is pretty much impossible. Arena is the still the worst building in the game, unless you want to build the Colosseum early, it is never worth building it immediately after it is unlocked.

Well all I'm saying is if the Water Puppet Theater just happened to be an arena replacement, I'm pretty sure Vietnam would be a civ with some sort of amenity bonus. Most likely they would receive more amenities with the Water Puppet Theater itself, which might make it even worth building. Especially if it produces more culture than the regular arena does which would also make the Colosseum a necessary wonder for Vietnam.

Of course this all hypothetical and it could easily just be an amphitheater replacement too.

 

[Onii-chan]

Soooo is Vietnam more or less confirmed as the next one by now or are we still just speculating? (Haven't been on civfanatics since the last pack)