[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[AntSou]

Even if Portugal doesn't come in March I won't be convinced that there'll be more content.

But then what do you think they'll do with the Personas? They can't give them for free, because the personas were the encouragement for buying the pass. On the other hand, making them available only through a definitive edition sounds pretty unreasonable, blocking players who didn't buy the Pass from owning the full game content.

(a) We are still in the middle of a pandemic. Things might marginally improve this year, but the developers could still be seeing many of the same difficulties for months out. Sustaining revenue with something less strenuous like Civ VI DLC content might be the better model for them than trying to operate at full force to put out a new title.

I believe there's a decent chance this is pretty much the end in terms of non-Civs content, therefore wrapping it up in that regard with the April patch. But I won't put it past them to have a couple of extra DLC to release before their next title. One or two more Civs, perhaps packed with a couple of alternative leaders, a few wonders or map scripts, just no scenarios or modes. Released every 3-5 months or so, until their next title arrives.

The alternative is to go quiet, which isn't a good alternative. If NOTHING else is planned after April, I think there's a very strong chance the announcement of their next project will come shortly after and released Late 2021. (though that coincides with Warhammer 3)

I am happy that on the next update devs gonna finally add polynesian tags

I'm confused, what is this in reference to?

 

[The Kingmaker]

Honestly i don't know in which Civ could you put her even but can we get Lady Dimitrescu as a leader? I feel like that's important

I saw in the news that the developers of that game recently revealed that she is supposed to be 9’6”, the same height as Goliath of Gath, the biblical giant.

Does that mean your comment was a tacit request for the inclusion of a Philistine civ in a Final Frontier pass?

 

[Zaarin]

Aboriginal Australians seem like an obvious non-Polynesian civ.

Many (most? all?) of them have taboos about naming the dead, which makes choosing a leader virtually impossible, not to mention that they were some of the most technologically primitive people in the world. I don't mind bending the game's definition of "civilization" a little, but I'd still argue that the Aboriginal Australians, Inuit, Siberians, etc. lie outside of it.

Does that mean your comment was a tacit request for the inclusion of a Philistine civ in a Final Frontier pass?

A Philistine civ would be really cool, though it would take some...imagination. They were probably polyethnic, but at least some of them probably spoke an Anatolian language so the leader could speak Hittite or Luwian--though they also adopted a Canaanite language within a few generations so just making them speak Biblical Hebrew would also be an option. There are a handful of leader names recorded within and without the Bible. Archaeology could provide some unique infrastructure (I'm thinking a Clan Hearth UI since they were known for building hearths outside of their villages for social and ceremonial gatherings). UU would probably be the biggest challenge...

 

[The Kingmaker]

Many (most? all?) of them have taboos about naming the dead, which makes choosing a leader virtually impossible, not to mention that they were some of the most technologically primitive people in the world. I don't mind bending the game's definition of "civilization" a little, but I'd still argue that the Aboriginal Australians, Inuit, Siberians, etc. lie outside of it.


A Philistine civ would be really cool, though it would take some...imagination. They were probably polyethnic, but at least some of them probably spoke an Anatolian language so the leader could speak Hittite or Luwian--though they also adopted a Canaanite language within a few generations so just making them speak Biblical Hebrew would also be an option. There are a handful of leader names recorded within and without the Bible. Archaeology could provide some unique infrastructure (I'm thinking a Clan Hearth UI since they were known for building hearths outside of their villages for social and ceremonial gatherings). UU would probably be the biggest challenge...

At least we can be reasonably sure the UU would have a feathered helmet.

 

[Jkchart]

I mean the Angevin Empire is probably the first time England was a significant power in Europe, but then it's not like Eleanor actually ruled it, other than her personal domains in Aquitaine (plus, there was nothing very English about that composite state anyway given court was usually held in France).

With Maria II the problem is partly that we are talking about a leader of a declined Portugal, and partly that I don't think there would really be much interest in seeing her in the game outside this forum. But I suppose her being picked wouldn't be that surprising, you're right. To be honest I have no interest in the dual-civ leader thing. So I wish they had, instead of Kublai Khan, added a female alt leader there to meet their intended quota of female leaders.

I've said this before, but she ruled for Richard the Lionhearted who as we all know was far more interested in war and crusade than ACTUALLY ruling over his people. She also even signed as queen on documents. In England's sphere she actually ruled. In France no, except for Aquitaine, which is French culturally so I see where they are coming from.

Anyways, yes I do like Eleanor if that wasn't clear 100% fine with her as an English ruler, fun choice even if not the "best"

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

A Philistine civ would be really cool, though it would take some...imagination. They were probably polyethnic, but at least some of them probably spoke an Anatolian language so the leader could speak Hittite or Luwian--though they also adopted a Canaanite language within a few generations so just making them speak Biblical Hebrew would also be an option. There are a handful of leader names recorded within and without the Bible. Archaeology could provide some unique infrastructure (I'm thinking a Clan Hearth UI since they were known for building hearths outside of their villages for social and ceremonial gatherings). UU would probably be the biggest challenge...

Leugi did a Civ 5 mod for these guys, so I believe it's possible for a Civ 6 Philistine Civ. Only problem is that we don't have much understanding of their language.

 

[Yudhisthira]

A Philistine civ would be really cool, though it would take some...imagination. They were probably polyethnic, but at least some of them probably spoke an Anatolian language so the leader could speak Hittite or Luwian--though they also adopted a Canaanite language within a few generations so just making them speak Biblical Hebrew would also be an option. There are a handful of leader names recorded within and without the Bible. Archaeology could provide some unique infrastructure (I'm thinking a Clan Hearth UI since they were known for building hearths outside of their villages for social and ceremonial gatherings). UU would probably be the biggest challenge...

Since we r taking about middle-east,what r the chances for Mitanni Civ

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Since we r taking about middle-east,what r the chances for Mitanni Civ

Less likely than the chances of the Hittites appearing in Civ 6.

 

[anonxanemone]

I saw in the news that the developers of that game recently revealed that she is supposed to be 9’6”, the same height as Goliath of Gath, the biblical giant.

Does that mean your comment was a tacit request for the inclusion of a Philistine civ in a Final Frontier pass?

Unique Hero David is introduced and is a Slinger replacement.

 

[Zaarin]

Leugi did a Civ 5 mod for these guys, so I believe it's possible for a Civ 6 Philistine Civ. Only problem is that we don't have much understanding of their language.

They were probably polyethnic and spoke several languages, but within a few generations they were speaking a dialect of Canaanite.

Since we r taking about middle-east,what r the chances for Mitanni Civ

I'd rather have Hurria proper because the Hurrian language is so cool, but I'd be fine either way. Unfortunately, though, not likely. It seems pretty apparent that there is no one on the Firaxis team with an interest or understanding of ancient civs.

 

[InsidiousMage]

It seems pretty apparent that there is no one on the Firaxis team with an interest or understanding of ancient civs.

I'm curious about much of that would be essentially a cost/benefit analysis on their part? Coming up with a leader, ability, unit, infrastructure and city names is probably a lot harder for some civs compared to other and it might not be worth the effort if you can't guarantee you would be able to completely flesh out the civ.

 

[Yudhisthira]

I'd rather have Hurria proper because the Hurrian language is so cool, but I'd be fine either way.

Are name of Hurrian proper Kings or leaders attested like those of Mitanni ones?

 

[8housesofelixir]

I'm curious about much of that would be essentially a cost/benefit analysis on their part? Coming up with a leader, ability, unit, infrastructure and city names is probably a lot harder for some civs compared to other and it might not be worth the effort if you can't guarantee you would be able to completely flesh out the civ.

I do agree that's probably why Civ series never had an Olmec or Harappan civ; however, for many other ancient/classical cultures, there were enough leaders, units, infrastructures, etc. with detailed information for easy picks. Ancient Near East was not just Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Phoenicians, Jewish kingdoms, and Gilgamesh.

 

[BuchiTaton]

I'm confused, what is this in reference to?

I mean the next Europa Universalis DLC/update, they gonna add polynesian nations. Sorry about the messy redaction.

 

[Yudhisthira]

Ancient Near East was not just Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Phoenicians, Jewish kingdoms, and Gilgamesh.

Of all these entities of middle-east which didn't survive for very long,I always find Elam as a notable exception which remain there for a very long time.

 

[InsidiousMage]

for many other ancient/classical cultures, there were enough leaders, units, infrastructures, etc. with detailed information for easy picks.

I've only played Civ6 but looking back it's clear that either Firaxis likes low hanging fruit or thinks that certain things have to be in the game. Persia is always the Achaemendids, Trajan is the first Roman leader that isn't Caesar or Augustus, Alexander the Great is all over the place. I mean Civ6 was the perfect time to have Philip ll as leader of Macedon but Alexander and his smug face is the game. I feel Olympia would be a better female ruler from that part of the world than Gorgo but Alexander and Sparta feel more necessary to Firaxis I guess. Meeting player expectations is fine and all but mixing things up is also important and I was kind of disappointed when they said they felt a Civ game wouldn't be complete without Babylon because it seems like they limiting possibilities in the game.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm curious about much of that would be essentially a cost/benefit analysis on their part? Coming up with a leader, ability, unit, infrastructure and city names is probably a lot harder for some civs compared to other and it might not be worth the effort if you can't guarantee you would be able to completely flesh out the civ.

Babylon and Sumer shouldn't be difficult to research yet here we are.

Are name of Hurrian proper Kings or leaders attested like those of Mitanni ones?

A handful, but not many, no. A small handful of Mitanni kings have Hurrian rather than Indo-Aryan names, I believe, and there are a handful of leaders of Urkesh and Yamhad before the Mitanni. Overall it would probably be easier to skip ahead to Urartu.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I've only played Civ6 but looking back it's clear that either Firaxis likes low hanging fruit or thinks that certain things have to be in the game. Persia is always the Achaemendids, Trajan is the first Roman leader that isn't Caesar or Augustus, Alexander the Great is all over the place. I mean Civ6 was the perfect time to have Philip ll as leader of Macedon but Alexander and his smug face is the game. I feel Olympia would be a better female ruler from that part of the world than Gorgo but Alexander and Sparta feel more necessary to Firaxis I guess. Meeting player expectations is fine and all but mixing things up is also important and I was kind of disappointed when they said they felt a Civ game wouldn't be complete without Babylon because it seems like they limiting possibilities in the game.

Civ is very much "pop history," limiting itself mostly to stuff covered in euro history textbooks.

It was really only a small miracle that we got Georgia memed into existence and the Mapuche recommended by a reddit historian.

I also thought Babylon was extraneous, and frankly its implementation in NFP is the least resonant and interesting. I absolutely share your opinion that by being obsessed with pandering to veteran players, the devs have missed a lot of great opportunities to introduce new cultures and history to the series. But the fact is that even a game like civ is a product first and art second, and Babylon is stupidly popular.

(I at least take some small solace that the Babylon fanboys had to settle with a dumb water mill. Heh. Heheh.)

 

[InsidiousMage]

Babylon and Sumer shouldn't be difficult to research yet here we are.

They are both in the game and have been in multiple iterations so your point is?

Civ is very much "pop history," limiting itself mostly to stuff covered in euro history textbooks.

I feel this weird tug and pull in the game between "pop history" and "scholarly history" that is perfectly encapsulated with Gorgo. Most people would understand "Lena Headey's character from 300" but there is so little of Gorgo in the historical record that her is inclusion seems very odd. Tomyris is definitely not as well documented as other leaders in the game but she has an amazing story to draw from whereas Gorgo only has three kind of dry and boring anecdotes that you would only find in a textbook to draw from.

But the fact is that even a game like civ is a product first and art second, and Babylon is stupidly popular.

Maybe my expectations are too high based on some other games I've played but I feel like Firaxis could be doing a little more to shake things up but still meet expectations but it's never easy regardless.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I feel this weird tug and pull in the game between "pop history" and "scholarly history" that is perfectly encapsulated with Gorgo. Most people would understand "Lena Headey's character from 300" but there is so little of Gorgo in the historical record that her is inclusion seems very odd. Tomyris is definitely not as well documented as other leaders in the game but she has an amazing story to draw draw from whereas Gorgo only has three kind of dry and boring anecdotes that you would only find in a textbook to draw from.

Yes, but even still they seem really hesitant to reach for anything that doesn't at least superficially resemble something already in the pop culture sphere. I mean look at how many of the weirder choices resemble something out of Disney or Game of Thrones or Harry Potter (CdM, Matthias, Eleanor, Kupe, Trieu, Kristina).

Maybe my expectations are too high based on some other games I've played but I feel like Firaxis could be doing a little more to shake things up but still meet expectations but it's never easy regardless.

I agree. If nothing else, it would make their product more unique, make it stand out against other rote history games like Humankind.