CKS-NES - 'Out of Darkness'

[Neverwonagame3]

Assuming the implication is as would seem immediately apparent, I'm content with the information already there. But the other potential players might not agree.

 

[Fuschia]

A question and a request...

Are starting locations limited to the economic zones, or are they simply the suggested "best" areas for development of a society?

I would like to see more information on each of the zones, especially when it comes to the sort of agricultural activities they pursue.

 

[Masada]

Are starting locations limited to the economic zones, or are they simply the suggested "best" areas for development of a society?

They are merely the "best" suggested areas as of the start of the game, they are generally more fertile, more socially advanced and more technologically advanced than surrounding areas.

I would like to see more information on each of the zones, especially when it comes to the sort of agricultural activities they pursue.

Should be fairly easy to do. I'm also going to work on a map tomorrow which reveals what's under economic zones. I was going to do it tonight but bed calls.

 

[das]

Confused: are the word examples all supposed to be for the different three linguistic traditions in respective order and dispersed randomly throughout the main part of your description? Or are they from words from different languages within the linguistic traditions and placed deliberately with the descriptions of different traditions? The former makes much more sense, but you never know.

Also:

Crops: Lengmang, Engang and Lencang.

Chinese pronunciation or otherwise?

Lastly, we'll probably need names for the language groups as well.

Population density is low and is organized by direct familial ties, does not form settlements larger than a couple of dozen;

Couple of dozen people, households or families?

Incidentally, I assume you also have at least some general ideas for the rest of the world, even if it won't really come into play for the first hundred turns or so.

I would like to see more information on each of the zones, especially when it comes to the sort of agricultural activities they pursue.

Seconded, though I understand that this was already promised earlier.

 

[a_propagandist]

Lurking with interest.

 

[Masada]

Or are they from words from different languages within the linguistic traditions and placed deliberately with the descriptions of different traditions? The former makes much more sense, but you never know.

That one

Chinese pronunciation or otherwise?

Up to the players

Lastly, we'll probably need names for the language groups as well.

Would the speakers have called them anything

Couple of dozen people, households or families?

People.

Incidentally, I assume you also have at least some general ideas for the rest of the world, even if it won't really come into play for the first hundred turns or so.

Of course.

Seconded, though I understand that this was already promised earlier.

That it was and all things going well it should be up tonight.

A map with transparent economic zones.

Spoiler :

 

[Masada]

Here is my attempt at a summary of some of the zones and economic areas. Criticize.

OUTER ZONES:

Zone A:

Economic Structure:

No knowledge of rice farming.
Millet is ill-suited to the rich alluvial floodplains, due to endemic ‘root rot’ bought on by persistent moisture.
Taro and Yams are the major crop of choice, cultivated in artificial crude terraces cut into hills.
No knowledge of rice farming.
First traps are used to fatten up fish, they are created by artificially blocking numerous small tributaries.
Large stands of bananas, sago palms and coconuts are maintained.

Social Structure:

Population density is low and is organized by direct familial ties.
Settlements are typically no larger than a dozen individuals.
Population is largely concentrated near rivers, due to substantial semi-tropical forests.
A degree of social stratification is evident, with ‘High Chiefs’ able to call together a small number of extended familial units for limited warfare.
Has only recently been settled in living memory, large portions of the interior are not inhabited.

Climate and Geography:

Semi tropical, with high mountains, very hilly, numerous valleys, numerous minor tributaries feeding into deep river valleys, extensive very deep semi-tropical forests which cover the majority of the landmasses, unusual wildlife, rich soil in the river valleys and hills.

Economic Zones:

Zones all broadly similar to the summary.

Zone B:

Economic Structure:

Knowledge of rice farming.
Millet is the principle crop, which is well suited to the relatively dry conditions on almost the entirety of the chain.
Due to dry conditions and poor soil in a large part of the chain, population density tends to be high.
Taro and yams are major crops, which are also well suited to the drier conditions.
Small stands of bananas and coconuts are maintained, with great care.
Taro and Yams are the major crop of choice, cultivated in artificial crude terraces cut into hills.
No knowledge of rice farming.

Social Structure:

Groups are not organized solely on direct familial links but on purported ancestral links allowing for larger aggregations of population.
Indecisive warfare between rival ancestral units is common and endemic.
A high degree of social stratification and organization allows for significant mobilizations of the male population in times of strife.
Social stratification is evidenced by the ability of ‘High Chiefs’ to pull together ancestral units in times of strife, increasingly they are beginning to exercise tangible power in the day to day management of these units.

Climate and Geography:

Dry, semi-tropical, hilly, many dormant volcanoes, poor forests, rivers slow with flow dropping during the driest part of the year, rich soil due to the resulting mud used to enrich the fields.

Economic Zones:

Zones all broadly similar to the summary.

Exception is existent for the sole lake zone, rice farming is practiced in the numerous very shallow areas of the lake proper. Successive generations have increased the size of this extremely fertile zone.

Zone C:

Economic Structure:

Knowledge of rice farming.
Low dependence on settled agriculture due to sandy soil and a dry climate.
Stands of bananas, coconuts and sago are still maintained, often in stands placed strategically along the coast.
Fishing by far the largest source of sustenance.

Social Structure

Population density largely concentrated on the coast and is low.
Familial units are ‘boatloads’ owing to the extensive maritime focus and the dependence on the sea.
Chiefs are appointed or inherit the position in charge of ‘boatloads’ depending on the dominant custom in the region.
Chiefs often work together with other chiefs, little scope for warfare.
Population spends much of its time on the sea, children are taught to swim before being to walk.

Climate and Geography:

Dry, tropical, largely flat, two active volcanoes, few and poor forests, rivers slow with flow dropping during the driest part of the year, poor sandy soil with high salt content not conducive to farming.

Economic Zones:

None.

Zone D:

Economic Structure:

Knowledge of rice farming.
Rice is becoming the principle crop, which is well suited to the wet conditions on almost the entirety of the chain.
Millet steadily being phased out in favour of more efficient Rice.
Stands of bananas, coconuts and sago are still maintained often in vast plantations.
Fishing is a significant source of food.

Social Structure

Population density largely concentrated in the highlands, with a small but growing minority moving towards the coast.
Population is still largely transient, although the trend is towards sedentary coastal living.
There is a sharp divide between the smallest islands which are orientated to the sea and the larger islands which are agriculturally orientated.
Social stratification is almost non existent, although ‘big men’ are increasingly ending up in control of the small groups.

Climate and Geography:

Wet, tropical, island centres dominated by mountains and hills, a small flat zone on the coast is common to most islands, very dense forests, occasional areas of little plant life, rich volcanic soil.

Economic Zones:

The economic zones are populated by sedentary wet and dry rice and millet farmers. The Lake shore and surrounding area are very fertile.

 

[das]

That one

So, uh, the former or the latter?

For the sake of convenience you could also add the distributions of the three language groups in those zones, seeing as this is what people will look at before beginning to create their cultures.

Settlements are typically no larger than a dozen individuals.
Population is largely concentrated near rivers, due to substantial semi-tropical forests.

Might be good to add the sparsity/density of settlement (i.e. both proximity of settlements and their quantity) to complete the picture, as the population of the valleys can still deviate wildly within what parameters you did set ("how many settlements of dozen people?").

Also, related to this, can you rate the different zones according to their current population?

As to "boatload", how many people is that supposed to be, on the average? And you have only mentioned it for one zone so far - wasn't this terminology implied to be more universal than that?

 

[Neverwonagame3]

How long until this starts?

 

[Masada]

So, uh, the former or the latter?

The later.

For the sake of convenience you could also add the distributions of the three language groups in those zones, seeing as this is what people will look at before beginning to create their cultures.

Doing another map.

Might be good to add the sparsity/density of settlement (i.e. both proximity of settlements and their quantity) to complete the picture, as the population of the valleys can still deviate wildly within what parameters you did set ("how many settlements of dozen people?").

I'm still thinking about how to do this...

Also, related to this, can you rate the different zones according to their current population?

I can do that, would a simple list of which is the most populated to the least populated be sufficient?

As to "boatload", how many people is that supposed to be, on the average? And you have only mentioned it for one zone so far - wasn't this terminology implied to be more universal than that?

A boatload varies between 25-100 people, depending on the region, those of the West would be closer to the upper bound (longer journeys and all that), while those in the East would be closer to the lower bound (short inter-island hops).

The lack of its usage was really my bad, its universal to the coast.

 

[das]

The later.

Then how about giving the equivalents in the other language traditions, for the sake of comparison?

(Or are we still talking about different formers and latters? )

I'm still thinking about how to do this...

Settlements per square kilometers (or square li, or whatever). Alternatively, just say that the settlements are sparse or on the contrary that there are dense concentrations of settlements in the river valleys.

I can do that, would a simple list of which is the most populated to the least populated be sufficient?

That's what I had in mind, yes.

A boatload varies between 25-100 people, depending on the region, those of the West would be closer to the upper bound (longer journeys and all that), while those in the East would be closer to the lower bound (short inter-island hops).

So you have settlements that are 1/8th of a boatload (in the west, if I am not mistaken)? That seems a bit strange, unless there are some further subdivisions ("canoeload?" "raftload"?).

 

[Masada]

Then how about giving the equivalents in the other language traditions, for the sake of comparison?

(Or are we still talking about different formers and latters? )

I can do that

Settlements per square kilometers (or square li, or whatever). Alternatively, just say that the settlements are sparse or on the contrary that there are dense concentrations of settlements in the river valleys.

I'll do the second, I also might make up a density map if that's desired. I can also provide some rules of thumb for the possible load bearing capacity of the different methods of cultivation.

That's what I had in mind, yes.

Fair enough.

So you have settlements that are 1/8th of a boatload (in the west, if I am not mistaken)? That seems a bit strange, unless there are some further subdivisions ("canoeload?" "raftload"?).

Doesn't seem odd considering the virgin land, the local climate and the crops being grown.

It's a malleable concept really, its used interchangeably both for the participants in the initial trip (not necessarily direct related) and for a group of people/village (which is similarily malleable based on the norms of the region, those with higher village populations will use the upper bound while those with lower village populations will use the lower bound). It also has a real world precedent, which gets similarly messy.

EDIT: The New Language Map has been up for some time.

 

[Masada]

More stuff is now updated on the front page inline with player suggestions. Only 3 more zones to complete.

Launch date aimed for Monday.

 

[das]

Didn't look at the other stuff yet as am in a hurry but transparent language zones really aren't working out, or at least I can't see to find any blue zones.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

Is this ready to start yet?

 

[Masada]

It is now ready for players. I'll be laying out a criteria for players tomorrow to use when applying.

As a further aside, whinging, whining, or otherwise pissing me off with inane questions about deadlines in the thread will result in being banned from the NES. No negotiation.

 

[Immaculate]

A question of scale:

How large a geographical area does a player's starting 'people/civilization/group' cover?
How large a population does a starting player's people encompass?

If you start as a sedentary farming group, do you start as several groups or one? etc.

Thanks.

Immac

PS: confirming continued interest and involvement

 

[Masada]

How large a geographical area does a player's starting 'people/civilization/group' cover?

An economic zone, if you start outside it will be subject to negotiation.

How large a population does a starting player's people encompass?

Not terribly relevant given the time scale involved in turn 1, 500 years. But, between a few thousand up to maybe twenty thousand.

If you start as a sedentary farming group, do you start as several groups or one? etc.

500 year turns . I will however allow players to give me an outline of what it is they ideally want at the end.

 

[Masada]

Criteria for Application

Applicants:
Must submit applications via PM;
Must include a 'scope' which provides a general outline of the turns goals;
Must include a 'method' which shows the moderator how they intend to reach those end goals;
Must include spending as a separate section which should be internally referenced in the 'method' section (to make my life easier);
All spending must pass the reasonableness test of:

• a clear objective;
• some precedent or an antecedent for changes;
• a 'hook' that is a means of gathering support, popular or otherwise for the reform;
• some description of the functionality of the institution; and
• some likely consequences in terms of social and economic changes.

Players will be allowed to spend 6 level 1 points this turn (to shape their cultures) and 6 level 2 points this turn (to shape their states);
Players must spend points on setting up

• legal institutions, including how land and possessions are inherited and how property is held [max cost 1 level 1 point];
• political institutions, including hypothetical models of government (some might not be appropriate first turn) and how government functions [max cost 1 level 1 point];
• economic structure, including who holds land, how land is worked and whatever else you want to come up with [max cost 1 level 1 point].

Go into details for these, they are the building blocks of your culture and your also not going to be able to change things on the cheap like this again

For the rest of your spending setting up things like religions using level 1 points is a good idea and then setting up how the religion functions in your society with level 2 points is a good idea. Think carefully, think hard and think well, this turn will be the largest number of points your going to see.

Now accepting applications (which will unless I violently object to will become your orders pending acceptance). Be original.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Pretty awesome undertaking!