Narz
keeping it real
I don't even know how to respond to that. Either way, it's no excuse to keep celebrating the guy.
Columbus Day
- Thread starter Linkman226
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Linkman226
#anarchy
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Pray tell, how many people from the 16th century besides him do we get as a national holiday (in the US, I'm not sure about policies elsewhere)?
And wasn't Columbus sacked and jailed for cruelty? By OTHER PEOPLE in the 16th century?
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
It's not too late to make reparations!
Narz
keeping it real
Considering that many of the native Caribbeans were driven extinct it kind of is.
I had no idea you guys were celebrating genocide and murder, I rather was busy recognizing the impact his bumbling around had upon the world and history.
And I didn't even have the day off.
Narz
keeping it real
Hilter impacted history alot too, should we have Hitler day & cite him as inspiration for the United Nations? If not Columbus some other a-hole would've (and did) rape & conquer the Americas. His dumbass couldn't even admit he didn't find the Indies.
1. I'm told that in a lot of Eastern cities its a big deal for Italian Americans, along the lines of St. Patrick's day (for the Irish) and in that regard, Columbus himself is more of a side-story. Anyone live in any cities w/ significant Italian-American communities and can confirm if this is true or not?
Out here in CA, there's very little made of it.
2. Love or hate Columbus, the simple fact is that his "discovery" is the an event upon which all of world history took off dramatically in a new direction. I think its worthy of commemoration for this alone.
Out here in CA, there's very little made of it.
2. Love or hate Columbus, the simple fact is that his "discovery" is the an event upon which all of world history took off dramatically in a new direction. I think its worthy of commemoration for this alone.
Linkman226
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I was talking to an Italian earlier today about this.
Quite a bit of pride.
Quite a bit of pride.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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I'm sure there's pride, but I've never seen St. Patrick's day-like antics. There's no "Drink a Sambuca, eat a cannoli" to
Personally, I don't care if the holiday dies, but demonizing Columbus for more than his own actions is pretty silly. I suppose there will always be controversy of who first discovered America.
Its not about "who first discovered America", its about an event that caused an entire shift in the direction of world history.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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I see your reasoning, as the discovery is quite a causal chain. However celebrating the Spanish imprint on the Americas is probably politically mixed in value, and questionable for a holiday as well.
In truth, it could just as easily be re-PC'd as "Discovery Day" or what not.
Narz
keeping it real
By Europeans didn't discover anything, we just took over. Frankly, we should probably just avoid the matter entirely & look forward, there's just no sugar coating it.
Miles Teg
Nuclear Powered Mentat
Totally agreed on the first part, but the second sentence is whacked. Can you imagine if it actually happened?
Fox News erupts in misplaced outrage, half the country takes it as proof that only questionably American commie pinkos hate Columbus Day, everyone has to listen to rafts of racial innuendos, and if Obama doesn't get re-elected, Columbus Day gets reinstated by President Perry in the first week of his administration. Every Democratic presidential candidate for the next five elections will have to proclaim how much he loves Columbus Day, or face populist wrath.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Miles and Narz, if you could go back in time and stop Columbus from reaching the Americas and helping to open up the large-scale colonization of the Americas, would you?
I'm sure the Europeans were grateful to him... on the other hand, there's an archaeological site at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland that proves when Leif Eriksson and his people got to North America - ~500 years BEFORE Columbus.
It's debatable whether any Europeans got here before Leif Eriksson. I haven't run across any reputable accounts. Also, there are questions of whether the Chinese made it to the west coast of North America before or during the Age of Exploration.
If it wasn't Columbus, it would have been somebody else. He wasn't the only explorer ready and willing to try finding another route to Asia.
Miles Teg
Nuclear Powered Mentat
Pointless question. I have absolutely no way of knowing what the modern world would look like without colonization of the Americas and the Columbian Exchange. Regardless of how it turned out, you can't justify the actions of Columbus and his ilk by the existence of the modern world, because there was no intent to create such. Also, Columbus was a nasty person on a personal level, and even the contemporary Spanish crown thought that he needed to lighten up on the natives.
Anyways, I don't think the modern world is inherently bad because the history that led to it is ugly and regrettable. I just would rather we celebrate the more positive parts of our history.
Junius
Prince
Leif Ericson is completly irrelevant. A mere historical footnote. Columbus may not have been the first european to "discover" the America's, but he his discovery was by far the most important. Ericson's was so important almost nobody remembered it. No need to get too worked up about it, it isn't exactly celebrated like Christmas. I don't imagine most people would even remember it if the post office was still open and department stores didn't have "Columbus Day sales".
