Committing mentally ill people

[illram]

It is a misconception that mental illness = totally crazy. Lots of mental illnesses are not totally debilitating or even noticeable some of the time. Bipolar is a great example. "Committing" someone is pretty drastic. Often mentally ill homeless or transitioning people can still function without being a danger to themselves or others if they are provided with some sort of mental health and overall wellness treatment, which can come from a variety of service providers and runs the gamut from basic healthcare, shelter, food pantries, drug abuse prevention, and so on. Drug or alcohol abuse is usually one of the biggest stumbling blocks and one of the frequent triggers of behavior that lands them in jail or worse. It is also one of the hardest to push for funding for.


Unfortunately the money does not exist to do this adequately so we have a huge swath of people who go without help for so long that they ultimately get to the point that they need to be involuntarily committed, or they go to jail, or they die. In California the Prison and county jail system is the biggest mental health provider in the State, which is absurd and a totally inefficient use of resources.

People don't understand that you spend the money before problems become unmanageable, you end up saving way more money, resources and time. And lives.

 

[Crezth]

ITT: Unqualified statements everywhere.

 

[fromeast2west]

I walk past a dozen or so homeless people every morning on my way from the bus to work, and about half of them are talking to non-existent people. One lady holds a toy cell phone to her ear and talks to someone who is supposed to help her every morning.

It's obvious that these people, while they aren't an immediate danger to anyone, are incapable of caring for themselves, and it's unreasonable and inhuman to leave them in the situation they're in.

I understand that the old system of asylums was ugly, but to simply replace it with a system that throws them out on the street isn't a good solution.

 

[Synobun]

I'm talking about in general. Personally, while I acknowledge that you're not trying to offensive, I find fairly offensive your characterization of homeless people suffering from mental illness as "dangerous".

I don't care if you're offended. If you are homeless with an illness you cannot control, more often than not you will be dangerous or disruptive.

It's a hard problem. I've got family members with mental illness who have been homeless in the past. They've been fortunate enough to have an incredibly supportive family - some of them would have been much less likely to get out of their situation without family support, some others have been unable to despite family support.

It can be incredibly difficult for them to function normally in society without medication.

Oh, I know. It's more wishful thinking of mine than anything else that there's a drug-free solution to most mental illness. I've worked and volunteered a lot with mentally ill people and have even been in relationships with people were mentally ill. More often than not, I eventually discover that the drugs they're on aren't as great as they may seem. Either their body starts to get used to it, their mind becomes cloudy, or it simply does nothing and they're afraid to say that in fear of being abandoned.

All else fails, I recommend total reform of the mental illness program so that medicating them is much more efficient. If it truly is a necessity, we must at least make it our primary goal to ensure that they can function like us, or at least close to it. I'm not a fan of something that gives you a side-effect akin to fibro-fog, and we should minimize use of these drugs or fund research into removing these side effects, in the interest of these troubled people and of society as a whole.

 

[kochman]

I walk past a dozen or so homeless people every morning on my way from the bus to work, and about half of them are talking to non-existent people. One lady holds a toy cell phone to her ear and talks to someone who is supposed to help her every morning.

It's obvious that these people, while they aren't an immediate danger to anyone, are incapable of caring for themselves, and it's unreasonable and inhuman to leave them in the situation they're in.

I understand that the old system of asylums was ugly, but to simply replace it with a system that throws them out on the street isn't a good solution.

I agree completely...
And, furthermore, it's freaking cold in some places... these people aren't on the streets because they are making solid decisions folks. It is sad.

Do I want us just to whisk away the homeless? No, of course not... and I do appreciate the Obama admin for trying to help much more than past admins, in particular for veterans.

It's a tough subject... but to me, just leaving someone out on the street because they are too crazy to agree to take the medicine that could potentially make their quality of life better is the wrong answer.

 

[dirtyparrot]

I don't care if you're offended. If you are homeless with an illness you cannot control, more often than not you will be dangerous or disruptive.

It's offensive because it's factually wrong and has all sorts of negative connotations. I don't see a whole lot of difference between your statement and something like "gay couples make bad parents." These statements are grounded in stereotypes rather than facts.

 

[Synobun]

It's offensive because it's factually wrong and has all sorts of negative connotations. I don't see a whole lot of difference between your statement and something like "gay couples make bad parents." These statements are grounded in stereotypes rather than facts.

Erm, no.

Medicated schizophrenics can become a danger to others or themselves if there is a lapse in their dose. This is also assuming they are in regular therapy, in a home, with a support structure, etc.

What makes you think un-medicated schizophrenics that are homeless and do not have a support structure are not a danger? You can go weeks without an incident because you may not play into the delusion that is manifesting itself as reality in their mind, but the minute you do, you are at risk of being hurt or killed, even.

You cannot compare homosexuality to mental illness unless you are one of those people that likes to claim being gay is a disease.

 

[kochman]

It's offensive because it's factually wrong and has all sorts of negative connotations. I don't see a whole lot of difference between your statement and something like "gay couples make bad parents." These statements are grounded in stereotypes rather than facts.

Uh, no, they aren't.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7641002

RESULTS: Mentally disordered defendants had 40 times the rate of homelessness found in the general population, and 21 times the rate in the population of mentally ill persons in the city. The overall rate of criminal offenses was 35 times higher in the homeless mentally ill population than in the domiciled mentally ill population. The rate of violent crimes was 40 times higher and the rate of nonviolent crimes 27 times higher in the homeless population. Homeless defendants were significantly more likely to have been charged with victimizing strangers.

 

[LucyDuke]

Naturally there should be strict safeguards to make sure people don't abuse this but I was wondering how many people think that someone should be committed in the sitaution described above and the ethics of committing a mentally ill family member and when it should be done.

I was wondering if the last part was a stab at Reagan over what happened to the mentally ill during his administration, I was very young in the 80s so I don't really know the whole situation but I've heard people briefly mention it before.

In that situation, as described, no, someone should not be committed.

I think it's hard to make broad generalizations.

ITT: Unqualified statements everywhere.

Pretty much.

All else fails, I recommend total reform of the mental illness program so that medicating them is much more efficient. If it truly is a necessity, we must at least make it our primary goal to ensure that they can function like us, or at least close to it. I'm not a fan of something that gives you a side-effect akin to fibro-fog, and we should minimize use of these drugs or fund research into removing these side effects, in the interest of these troubled people and of society as a whole.

"The mental illness program"?

 

[Synobun]

"The mental illness program"?

All the processes, organizations, and methods used to help treat and manage individuals who are influenced or imprisoned by an illness based on the brain.

 

[Borachio]

Wow! You people sure take mental illness seriously. This is a good thing, imo. (not the mental illness)

I can just sit here and learn stuff.

 

[Farm Boy]

Wow! You people sure take mental illness seriously. This is a good thing, imo. (not the mental illness)

I can just sit here and learn stuff.

Mental illness is a spectrum. In a digital land of introverts and some social outcasts and other just plain weird people that enjoy this sort of thing, I'm not surprised the issue rings home.

 

[caketastydelish]

I'll give my two bits for this specific issue, but if anyone else has any other particular questions, just bump my "ask a schizoaffective" thread.

Yeah, if the woman is refusing treatment, she should be forced to be put on treatment. If she refused to take medicine and go to therapy, that's really no one's fault but her own.

All of that said, the stigma surrounding mental illness is appalling. Frankly, I think we go through even more discrimination than homosexuals (and that's saying a lot).

 

[Synobun]

All of that said, the stigma surrounding mental illness is appalling. Frankly, I think we go through even more discrimination than homosexuals (and that's saying a lot).

You'll find that a lot of first-look discrimination is because a lot of psychiatrists today are a little trigger-happy with their diagnosing and medicating. It's hard to determine, upon first glance, if they are actually mentally ill or if the doctor simply wrote that they were.

I've worked with several people that were deemed to be schizophrenic/bipolar/ADHD/MPD/CD when in reality they weren't. I'm sure this isn't the norm everywhere, but there are some doctors out there that diagnose based on a checklist rather than actual observation. It's unfair discrimination, yes, but I wouldn't go as far to say that it's worse than homosexuality. Remember that people used to (and still do in some places) get stoned or needlessly murdered for their sexuality.

 

[caketastydelish]

In western countries that isn't the case. In fact, we already have gay congressmen, but no mentally ill politicians that I know of. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Gays can at least serve openly in the military; those with mental illness are not even legally allowed to join.

 

[Synobun]

In western countries that isn't the case. In fact, we already have gay congressmen, but no mentally ill politicians that I know of. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Gays can at least serve openly in the military; those with mental illness are not even legally allowed to join.

Here's the difference, my friend -

A gay guy, at the worst, could send you a dick pic and that's really about it. Rape in the military is already evident in straight demographics, so the homosexual demographic is irrelevant.

A person with schizophrenia requires constant medical dosing (or, well, daily), and any fluke can disrupt their behaviour. You do not want a man or woman with a gun fighting alongside you who might suddenly believe that the sand is really just kit-kat bars and that the enemy are the teletubbies (do not tell me that isn't possible, because it is. I have dealt with enough people going through episodes to know that their minds can concoct the strangest and most dangerous delusions possible). It is a danger to them, to you, and to any civilian around them.

If there ever comes a day where that risk is no longer present, then I will be glad to applaud the first mentally ill person in office or in uniform, but until then... Something going wrong is terrible for everyone around them.

 

[caketastydelish]

I forget to take my medicine every now and then, and I haven't had a relapse since I was first diagnosed.

And practically everyone with a mental illness displays very noticeable "warning signs" before doing anything dangerous.

I point out that people with mental illness face severe discrimination and then use an example to back up my claim, and then the example gets defended. Why aren't I surprised?

 

[Borachio]

Don't ask, don't tell? I agree, there's a lot of discrimination. About all sorts of things.

 

[Synobun]

I forget to take my medicine every now and then, and I haven't had a relapse since I was first diagnosed.

And practically everyone with a mental illness displays very noticeable "warning signs" before doing anything dangerous.

I point out that people with mental illness face severe discrimination and then use an example to back up my claim, and then the example gets defended. Why aren't I surprised?

Your example isn't relevant and got proven wrong. Frankly, you should be surprised that you keep using it.

Anyways -- It's not a norm. There are a lot of people with clear warning signs before an episode, and like you said, you can often forget your medication for a day and be fine. There are also a lot of people who can turn dangerous from one minute to the next and cannot afford to forget their medication.

Trying to screen mentally ill people into positions where they're responsible for a large number of others would require a lot of effort and continued funding and understanding for the treatment of them, as well as preventing any lapses. Until that happens, the cost is not worth the benefit.

 

[LucyDuke]

In western countries that isn't the case. In fact, we already have gay congressmen, but no mentally ill politicians that I know of. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Patrick Kennedy.

Gays can at least serve openly in the military; those with mental illness are not even legally allowed to join.

Certain illnesses may prevent one from serving in the military because they are illnesses.