[RD] Conyers and Franken, Racism?

[BvBPL]

John Conyers just resigned from the US House of Representatives in the wake of sexual harassment allegations and pressure from within his party. Conyers is a veteran of the Korean War, a civil rights leader, and a progressive trailblazer.

Al Franken is a sitting US Senator who is also being accused of multiple instances of sexual harassment. Democrat leadership isn’t putting a lot of pressure, if any, on forcing Franken to resign. Instead they are kicking the can down the road through an ethics investigation. Franken is a charismatic progressive from whom one might expect great things from him as a politician, but his political career is still in its infancy.

The acquisitions of harassment against the two men differ materially in that Conyers is alleged to harassed women while he was in office and paid the settlements through public funds whereas Franken is alleged to harassed women prior to taking office.

Conyers is black. Franken is white.

Is the disparate treatment of these men the result of racism?

 

[onejayhawk]

It looks like Franken will be going as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...af260e-daa2-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html

J

 

[civvver]

I don't think it is. There is a huge difference between committing these acts (allegedly) while in office vs frankens while he was a comedian, and especially the settlement issue. Why would he settle anyway if there was nothing there? And the way it was settled it sweeps this all under the rug imo, instead of going through whatever committee congress is supposed to use to settle these.

Plus I'm not that sure about all the details but wasn't franken's only instance with that model in iraq? Were there more? Conyers on the other hand is accused of doing this on the job for years.

Also I think that age has something to do with it, conyers is in the twilight of his career so it's pretty easy to make him the fall guy as an example of how tough the party is on these issues, while franken they probably see as an up and comer.

It looks like Franken will be going as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...af260e-daa2-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html

J

I was mid posting as you wrote that, but it answers my questions- there are more accusations against franken than I thought and it looks like they'll pressure him to resign just as hard.

I guess the only difference then is that franken admitted to some and apologized for, while conyers maintains his innocence, but the settlement looks bad.

 

[Berzerker]

We're taking a step back, groper Franken will resign from the senate and a child molester will join

I dont see it as racism, as civvver said, other factors but they're both leaving

Does Al still need his ethics investigation?

 

[chijohnaok]

I don't think it is. There is a huge difference between committing these acts (allegedly) while in office vs frankens while he was a comedian, and especially the settlement issue. Why would he settle anyway if there was nothing there? And the way it was settled it sweeps this all under the rug imo, instead of going through whatever committee congress is supposed to use to settle these.

Plus I'm not that sure about all the details but wasn't franken's only instance with that model in iraq? Were there more? Conyers on the other hand is accused of doing this on the job for years.

Also I think that age has something to do with it, conyers is in the twilight of his career so it's pretty easy to make him the fall guy as an example of how tough the party is on these issues, while franken they probably see as an up and comer.



I was mid posting as you wrote that, but it answers my questions- there are more accusations against franken than I thought and it looks like they'll pressure him to resign just as hard.

I guess the only difference then is that franken admitted to some and apologized for, while conyers maintains his innocence, but the settlement looks bad.

The list of accusers against Franken is now up to eight women:

http://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/

 

[JollyRoger]

He's might eventually get to Trump/Moore territory on number of accusers.

 

[Berzerker]

what about them?

I've noticed a pattern, one allegation leads to a dam burst... These guys are repeat offenders. Penitent they are not... The remourseful man doesn't have 10 or 50 accusers, he has 1.

 

[Zkribbler]

The list of accusers against Franken is now up to eight women:
http://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/

All of them involved allegations of groping or unwanted kissing.
The Conyers lawsuit alleged he fired a staffer because she refused to sleep with him.
These men have been pressured by Dems to resign,
Alleged serial child molester Roy Moore is being supported by The GOP.

 

[Berzerker]

Conyers did more than that, I heard a victim describing how he sexually assaulted her... but what about them?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

John Conyers just resigned from the US House of Representatives in the wake of sexual harassment allegations and pressure from within his party. Conyers is a veteran of the Korean War, a civil rights leader, and a progressive trailblazer.

Al Franken is a sitting US Senator who is also being accused of multiple instances of sexual harassment. Democrat leadership isn’t putting a lot of pressure, if any, on forcing Franken to resign. Instead they are kicking the can down the road through an ethics investigation. Franken is a charismatic progressive from whom one might expect great things from him as a politician, but his political career is still in its infancy.

The acquisitions of harassment against the two men differ materially in that Conyers is alleged to harassed women while he was in office and paid the settlements through public funds whereas Franken is alleged to harassed women prior to taking office.

Conyers is black. Franken is white.

Is the disparate treatment of these men the result of racism?

Yeah you missed the story by just a few hours. Democratic leadership is lining up and telling him to resign.


I don't think it was racism; the cases as they have been presented are comparable but of different orders. Groping is bad, attempted rape and retaliation are terrible. Especially when there was only one accuser of Frankin, it was easier to forgive. Once the pattern emerged it became clear he was beyond forgiveness. Conyers offences were bad enough that he didn't get a pass for his first violation.

In any case it is now clear where the two parties stand on sexual violence. One endorses it, the other expels it.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Franken could switch parties and stay in Congress.

 

[onejayhawk]

Franken could switch parties and stay in Congress.

Evidently not. He can go back to bad comedy about Rush Limbaugh.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/12/06/senator-al-franken-to-resign

J

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't think it is racism related. Why would you think so?

But things have gotten rather ridiculous:

http://time.com/5053069/daryl-metcalfe-gay-comment/

Time article about a senator insinuating another senator may be homosexual.

Hm, one wonders if polarization and immaturity can actually get any worse...!

 

[Zkribbler]

I don't think it is racism related. Why would you think so?

It's typical GOP misdirection. For the past 50 years, the GOP has battled every civil rights issue (except assault weapons for everyone). It's the home of the KKK and the alt-right. So at every opportunity, they claim Democrats are racists.

 

[Perfection]

Al Franken made fun of my shirt at a campaign rally in 2008

Spoiler :

It was a Dole Pinneaple shirt

He called me "Mr. Dole"

I was willing to wait and see where the ethics inquiry idea went when it was just the Tweeden thing, and even after the first photo OP allegation. I figured I could at least hear more facts before jumping to demanding his resignation. I had really liked him as a senator, and prior to this mess was even thinking he should run for President in 2020 (you got to admit he would've been absolutely savage in debates).

But with all this new stuff I don't think any benefit of the doubt is really warranted and I do think he should resign.

Franken resigning is weird because we'd get a governor appointed senator until 2018 midterms at which point we'd elect a new senator to fill out his remaining term, that senator would be up for election in 2020.

I think it would be cool if Keith Ellison got the spot (dunno if he wants it, dude pretty much has a job for life representing Minneapolis' district whereas Minnesota at large is rather purple). It looks like Dayton is favoring his Lt. Gov Tina Smith. From what I've heard she wouldn't run for 2018. There are a lot of well known Democrats who could run for his senate seat.



Anyways, I don't see race being a simple deciding factor between Conyers and Franken but I think because Franken was fairly good with white Midwesterners (ie the people who ditched Obama for Trump) many dems were slower to condemn him (that and the particulars of the case itself). Now that we know more it's clear that this is a pattern of scummy behavior that demands action.

Personally, I'm pissed at Franken. He acted completely out of bounds in a way that makes me look like a jackass for voting for him and I'm glad I didn't buy his damn book.

 

[Katie88]

Conyers is black. Franken is white.

Isn't Franken Jewish?

 

[BvBPL]

I don't think it is racism related. Why would you think so?

Members of the Congressional Black Caucus pointed out that Conyers appeared to be subject to more severe scrutiny than Franken. There were many more and earlier calls for Conyers to step aside from leadership positions or resign than they there were for Franken, so the perception of the CBC members isn’t without some merit.

It's typical GOP misdirection. For the past 50 years, the GOP has battled every civil rights issue (except assault weapons for everyone). It's the home of the KKK and the alt-right. So at every opportunity, they claim Democrats are racists.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Members of the Congressional Black Caucus pointed out that Conyers appeared to be subject to more severe scrutiny than Franken. There were many more and earlier calls for Conyers to step aside from leadership positions or resign than they there were for Franken, so the perception of the CBC members isn’t without some merit.

Again:

Conyers offences were bad enough that he didn't get a pass for his first violation.

Absent any context, yeah it looks like Conyers was treated less fairly than Franken. With context it's pretty trivial to show that what Frankin was initially accused of was not nearly as bad as what Conyers was accused of and thus the pull to investigate/punish Conyers was much greater than for Frankin.

Proportionality should be a thing in our Congress.

 

[Lexicus]

Isn't Franken Jewish?

So, you don't think a person can be Jewish and white?

 

[Perfection]

There were many more and earlier calls for Conyers to step aside from leadership positions or resign than they there were for Franken, so the perception of the CBC members isn’t without some merit.

if you want to see real hypocrisy look at Roy Moore