Crimea - history repeats itself yet again

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Oct 18, 2013
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Not long ago there was a thread on Russia's actions including Crimea, and people shrugged off comparing the "nationalism" arguments to Hitler's actions in Europe. Now Jews in Crimea are being required to pay and register their religious affiliations and property. Anyone see any resemblance now?
 
Isn't that a hoax?

More like a straight-up lie.

To all you Russophobes out there: I'm sorry, the Russian Federation is not the Fourth Reich and Putin is not Hitler reborn. Just because you Russophobes fear/hate Russia for whatever ridiculous reason does not mean Russia is actually evil.
 
Is the question whether or not the registration pamphlets were printed and distributed, or who was behind the printing and distribution?
 
Is the question whether or not the registration pamphlets were printed and distributed, or who was behind the printing and distribution?

From the links provided, I gather the issue is the latter. As far as I can tell, no official Crimean or Russian authority authorized, executed, or sanctioned the distribution of these pamphlets.
 
Per Snopes, who may or may not be right (but usually tend to be better than ye olde average media...if only because they check multiple sources out in the media), there was a group who did pass the leaflets...but even local pro-Ukraine folks admit it's probably not the separatists. The separatists themselves are saying words to the effect of "Hell no, that is NOT our thing". There appears to be inconsistencies between the leaflets and the actual content of the text.

Disinformation, or a group wanting payback for Moscow labeling the Ukrainian protesters "fascists", maybe even a gang just out to make a quick buck using political uncertainty to harass Jews into coughing up...who knows.

Or Snopes could be wrong, of course.

EDIT: Time article on the topic (which is a huge source of Snopes) : http://time.com/67272/ukraine-jew-register-donetsk/
 
More like a straight-up lie.

To all you Russophobes out there: I'm sorry, the Russian Federation is not the Fourth Reich and Putin is not Hitler reborn. Just because you Russophobes fear/hate Russia for whatever ridiculous reason does not mean Russia is actually evil.

Just because Russophobes fear/hate Russia for ridiculous reasons does not mean the Russian government is not evil.
 
More like a straight-up lie.

To all you Russophobes out there: I'm sorry, the Russian Federation is not the Fourth Reich and Putin is not Hitler reborn. Just because you Russophobes fear/hate Russia for whatever ridiculous reason does not mean Russia is actually evil.

Because anybody who dares say a word against a BLATANT BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW must be a Russophobe, i.e. somebody who hates the Russian people. That's Nazi-style thinking right there.

Anyway, as I said before, I think Putin is more like Slobodan Milošević - ruthless, cunning, nationalistic, and cynical to the point of absurdity. Both share many similarities, and both were once approached by the West as partners. Until they used ethnic nationalism to ignite wars over and over again. Of course, there's the difference that Putin has nukes and a much bigger country to screw with, which makes him a bit more dangerous in that regard.

As for comparing Russia to the Third Reich - Nazi Germany is used as a sort of prototype of what a nationalistic totalitarian regime looks like, so it's the go-to analogy for most people. It's not the most accurate. But we can already see some signs of re-introducing totalitarian elements into the Russian society:

In The Wake Of Crimea Annexation, Patriotism Reigns In Russian Classrooms

MOSCOW -- It will take some time to revise Russia's history textbooks to reflect the annexation of Crimea. But that's not preventing the authorities from moving quickly to ensure the country's school curriculum sticks to a politically -- and patriotically -- correct line on the issue.

In recent weeks, a new course titled "We Are Together" has been introduced in high schools throughout the country. The course presents the annexation as a "reunification of Crimea with Russia" -- the exact phrase used by Russian authorities.

Officials from the ruling United Russia party, which is spearheading the educational campaign, have joined teachers to give lectures on patriotism as part of the course.

"As a former teacher, I understand that the events in Ukraine, Crimea, and Russia need to be clarified for students," Nikolai Bulayev, a State Duma deputy from the United Russia party, said in remarks reported by Russian media.

"We need to explain the position taken by our president to them," Bulayev added.


'I Am Proud Of My President'

During a lecture at School No. 28 in the city of Ulyanovsk, on the Volga River some 900 kilometers from Moscow, history instructor Lyubov Moskalyova is busy clarifying and explaining.

"Of course, not all states want to see a strong Russia that carries out its foreign policy according to its national interests," Moskalyova tells students as an official from the local mayor's office looks on.

"I am happy for Russia, I am proud of my president," she adds, her voice cracking with emotion.

The students appear bored and listlessly repeat memorized information about Crimea's economy, geography and history.

At another school, Ulyanovsk's Gymnasium No. 1, the class discussion is much livelier.

One student, Yegor Tsvetkov says the annexation -- which he obediently calls a "reunification" -- is just a first step toward a Russian takeover of eastern Ukraine.

"A referendum should be conducted in [eastern Ukraine] to see what percentage of the population supports unification with Russia," Tsvetkov says. "I'm sure, an absolute majority would vote in favor."

Tsvetkov adds that he favors the use of military force and says he would be willing to fight to unify eastern Ukraine with Russia.


Another student, Arseniy, who gives only his first name, disagrees, adding that he has "increasingly negative" attitudes about the Crimean annexation.

"I support my country but I think the confrontation with the West is stupid," he says. "I hope there will be some kind of peaceful solution [for the crisis]."


Brainwashing Fears

Not all teachers, however, are enthusiastic about the new course. "This is outrageous. It's an outright brainwashing of children," says Tamara Eidelman, who teaches history at School No. 567 in Moscow.

Eidelman says important facts, like the mass deportation of the Crimean Tatars during World War II, have been left out of the course.

Eidelman says she "would teach the patriotism classes with great pleasure," but only if she could do it her way. "I would tell the class what I really think," she says. "Possibly, that's why the [school administration] wouldn't ask me to teach patriotism," she says.

But amid the current patriotic frenzy, such opinions can be dangerous.

Mikhail Kopitsa, a history teacher in the northwestern city of Arkhangelsk, says he was reprimanded and required to write an official letter of explanation after criticizing Russia's military presence in Crimea.

"I see my role is to -- at least slightly -- counter the flood of propaganda coming from the media," Kopitsa says, adding that he is disturbed by what he describes as the "mindless" and "one-sided" patriotism prevalent in Russia today.

:crazyeye:
 
From the links provided, I gather the issue is the latter. As far as I can tell, no official Crimean or Russian authority authorized, executed, or sanctioned the distribution of these pamphlets.

Maybe some relatives of the sniper-friends of the current Kiev 'government' :)

Too bad that the media are behind the times, most people have read a bit of history and recall how usual those false-flag operations were in the onset of past world wars. Like those poor german soldiers who were killed and maimed by the evil belgians and so Belgium had to be occupied (without any connection to a strategic plan, it was all popular outrage) :yup:
 
I am pretty sure it was the other way round.

Le Wiki does not agree with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Belgium

wiki and the 'rape of Belgium' said:
The neutrality of Belgium had been guaranteed by the Treaty of London (1839), which had been signed by Prussia. However the German Schlieffen Plan required that German armed forces violate Belgium’s neutrality in order to outflank the French Army, concentrated in eastern France. The German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg dismissed the treaty of 1839 as a "scrap of paper".[3] Throughout the beginning of the war the German army engaged in numerous atrocities against the civilian population of Belgium, and destruction of civilian property; 6,000 Belgians were killed, 25,000 homes and other buildings in 837 communities destroyed. 1,500,000 Belgians (20% of the entire population) fled from the invading German army.[4]:13 Just how many Belgians were still on the run within their own country is not known: estimates vary between another 0.5 and even 1.5 million.n some places, particularly Liège, Andenne and Leuven, but firstly Dinant, there is evidence that the violence against civilians was premeditated.[4]:573–574 However, in Dinant, the German army believed sincerely that the inhabitants were as dangerous as the French soldiers themselves.[5][6] German troops, afraid of Belgian guerrilla fighters, or francs-tireurs, burned homes and executed civilians throughout eastern and central Belgium, including Aarschot (156 dead), Andenne (211 dead), Tamines (383 dead) and Dinant (674 dead).[7] The victims included women and children.[8]

On August 25, 1914, the German army ravaged the city of Leuven, deliberately burning the University's library of 300,000 medieval books and manuscripts with gasoline, killing 248 residents,[9] and expelling the entire population of 10,000. Civilian homes were set on fire and citizens often shot where they stood.[citation needed] Over 2,000 buildings were destroyed and large amounts of strategic materials, foodstuffs and modern industrial equipment were looted and transferred to Germany. (There were also several friendly fire incidents between groups of German soldiers during the confusion.[6]) These actions brought worldwide condemnation.[10] In the Province of Brabant, nuns were ordered by Germans to strip naked under the pretext that they were spies. In Aarschot, between August and September, women were repeatedly victimised. Just like looting and murder, rape was widespread.[4]:164–165

Adolf Hitler later stated that:
“ The old Reich knew already how to act with firmness in the occupied areas. That's how attempts at sabotage to the railways in Belgium were punished by Count von der Goltz. He had all the villages burnt within a radius of several kilometres, after having had all the mayors shot, the men imprisoned and the women and children evacuated.[11]

Uncle Adolph approved as well, which is why the next WW had a lot more of that nice german civility :)
 
Just because Russophobes fear/hate Russia for ridiculous reasons does not mean the Russian government is not evil.

They are not any more or less evil than any other sane government (I say sane because there are certain governments that I think we all agree are pretty whacked out) on the planet. They are just more open and in-your-face with their corruption rather than trying to be all cloak-and-dagger about it like other governments. So Russia's recent actions are all just business as usual in my opinion; nothing to get all flustered over.
 

Actually it does. Belgium was invaded and occupied not because of any "Belgian provocations" or "public outrage in Germany", but because the Schlieffen Plan required it. It was wholly precipitated by the adherence to the overall strategic plan, hence your statement:

Like those poor german soldiers who were killed and maimed by the evil belgians and so Belgium had to be occupied (without any connection to a strategic plan, it was all popular outrage)

. . . is simply wrong.

Uncle Adolph approved as well, which is why the next WW had a lot more of that nice german civility :)

Flaunting your anti-German prejudices doesn't really help your cause, unless you haven't noticed already.

They are not any more or less evil than any other sane government (I say sane because there are certain governments that I think we all agree are pretty whacked out) on the planet. They are just more open and in-your-face with their corruption rather than trying to be all cloak-and-dagger about it like other governments. So Russia's recent actions are all just business as usual in my opinion; nothing to get all flustered over.

Sigh :shake:
 
The meaning of "prejudice" seems to elude you, for i stated wiki's Adolphian quote, and the known german ww2 massacres. Nothing prejudiced there, old chap :)

Although i was reminded of another quote, naturally: "you cannot see that which you are one with".
 
The meaning of "prejudice" seems to elude you, for i stated wiki's Adolphian quote, and the known german ww2 massacres. Nothing prejudiced there, old chap :)

Although i was reminded of another quote, naturally: "you cannot see that which you are one with".

1) I assume that you recognized your error as to what caused the occupation of Belgium in WW1;

2) The prejudice lies in your implicit assertion that Germans behave the same 96 and 69 years later, respectively.
 
^Yeah, none of those two lines you offered shows what was posted; it merely presents your defeat of your own projection placed in the position of the posts by myself. Stockholm syndrome is strong in your own views, though :jesus:
 
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