Crusader Kings 2

[cybrxkhan]

More good news for you Mediterranean portrait haters - PI had apparently also commissioned Crak'd to re-do the Greeks, and this 'update' to the Med portraits will be free for everyone who already bought them (obvoiusly if you haven't bought them, then, well, you'll have to buy them). They are in fact already in the new beta patch, so you can see them for yourself. Here's a screenshot that was posted on the CKII forums:

A few people are complaining that the new portraits look a tad too Middle Eastern, but this was intentional on Crak'd's part, at least when it comes to the clothing and hairstyles, given the influence the ERE and the neighboring parts of the Muslim world had on each other during this time.

Also, guy on the bottom looks like a douche, a la Megas Alexandros.

 

[madviking]

at a glance, i would confuse them with the persian portraits

 

[Arakhor]

Is the Diplomacy line new? I don't recall seeing it before.

 

[Double A]

Wow that looks so much better than the dry spaghetti hair.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Here's some more screenshots I took myself, to show you a bit more variety. I totally dig the armor and helmet, btw. Also, the middle aged women look rather... young. Not that I'm complaining.

Spoiler :

 

[Quintillus]

IMO the biggest weakness in them is that the faces are all too smooth. Where are the signs of age, the wrinkles of wisdom? Sure, it should be less pronounced than in the old citizens, but I suppose it means I agree with the looking too young criticism (although I'd say it makes the guys look a bit too young, too). Nonetheless, I do think it's an improvement on the old Mediterranean portraits.

Although you're killing me with the JPEG compression. Lossy compression on pictures that are supposed to show the detail of the differences in the portraits? I know it's probably the default setting for Steam or whatnot, but this is exactly the case where something like QuickShot that supports PNG as well as JPG is needed.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Why are all the mediterraneans so tanned? Is it because they all go to mediterranean beaches?

 

[cybrxkhan]

IMO the biggest weakness in them is that the faces are all too smooth. Where are the signs of age, the wrinkles of wisdom? Sure, it should be less pronounced than in the old citizens, but I suppose it means I agree with the looking too young criticism (although I'd say it makes the guys look a bit too young, too). Nonetheless, I do think it's an improvement on the old Mediterranean portraits.

Although you're killing me with the JPEG compression. Lossy compression on pictures that are supposed to show the detail of the differences in the portraits? I know it's probably the default setting for Steam or whatnot, but this is exactly the case where something like QuickShot that supports PNG as well as JPG is needed.

JPG has never bothered me, the pics look fine to me.

Why are all the mediterraneans so tanned? Is it because they all go to mediterranean beaches?

Here's what Crak'd said on the PI forums concerning the appearance of the Greeks, some of it relevant to your question:

Strange that they don't seem Mediterranean to you. I actually sculpted each one in zbrush from Greek photo references, and ran them alongside statuary and pictorial representations from the time period. The eyebrows are roughly 70% "thick" across the eye sets, along with the eyes being proportionally larger than any of the others that I have done save for the Indians. I think the biggest reason they might look beady to some is partially from the fact that all portraits essentially use the same "skull size" and "skull shape" so the headgear can transfer across cultures, which means the heads for all cultures are almost uniformly "round." It's a necessary trade-off for gameplay, but one that makes the faces cross-sectionally small in comparison to the back of the skull. Everything is also rendered orthogonally, which causes minor perspective issues from a lack of DoF and is, again, necessary for gameplay reasons in creation. Otherwise, nothing would line up from head to head and I would have to spend much more time in post-processing to make them jive together. Hair color and eyes I have no final say over, actually, only making initial suggestions in the .gfx files. I'm not privy to anything behind the scenes other than the face creation, so the coding aspects are really handled by others (and that's a good thing since I suck at it).

I spoke more about this in the other thread, but I think we'll probably have to disagree on this. They are each hand-sculpted from actual Greeks, and textured the same as well. It's partially the size of the frame to blame, as well. A lot of the details that I noticed in the 2,000 or so photos I combed through just don't translate well to 152 x 152 frames. Excepting the shape of the overall skull, which has to be consistent for headgear/hair/alignment purposes, I made sure to follow certain consistencies I noticed amongst the Greeks I was using for reference: The ratio of nasal bridge depth to cranial slope, eyes and mouth sizes and angles, maxillary size and position, and the effect of a slightly "puffier" supraorbital ridge, tendency towards straighter and wider bridges, etc. So it sucks that you don't see them as Greek. Hopefully, despite that, they are a more acceptable compromise from "PotatoFace" as you guys like to call the old ones?

Skin tone is such a touchy subject. So many people use skin tone as a personal, political, and national identifier, and take immense offense to perceived inaccuracy. The skin textures I used were taken from Greeks, and should match. However, there are always going to be concerns that it's not correct, and part of that is also compositional in terms of surrounding color and lighting choices.

So, when the models get rendered, they are sculpted, textured, and dropped into a scene. Then, the environment and lighting get added and the rendering engine gets tweaked. And this is where the biggest source of variability comes into play: Do they get rendered with inside light or outside light? Is the light ambient, spot, pin? Is it all of them in some degree? What about the clothes? If white clothes are placed next to skin, the skin will look darker by comparison, so it is too dark? Do the color compositions on clothing effect the appearance of skin? Is there any SSS or AO to take into effect? What about layered translucence? Skin is very complex. It has multiple layers and undertones. Skin with a lot of blood is redder, less blood bluer, over bone is yellower... The surface oils on top, are they highly specular and reflective? And if so to what light source? Etcetera.

There are a lot of variables to take into account. I believe I did an accurate representation considering the variety of source materials and time invested. Should community consensus dictate a revision, I would be happy to change it. I spent so much time on these that my wife was getting irritated, haha. It's very much a labor of love on my part. Even if I was not making these officially, it is still what I would be doing for the community.

Hair dye has been around for a really long time. Henna, for instance, was being used for thousands of years by the time this pack takes effect. (Speaking of, it's sad that I can't add henna as an option to these packs, because it would be great to see a Persian, Arab, or Indian with a ferociously-orange beard!)

Specifically, dyes to lighten the hair to blonde were common throughout the Mediterranean from at least the Greek times. The Iberians wrote about it all the time, whether in the cantigas or through treastises over beauty, and they borrowed from Greek recipes. In addition to henna skin decorations, a variety of depillatory methods, the usage of kohl to darken the eyes, etc. People back then were just as concerned with physical appearance as we are now, from blemishes to hair color to make-up. And part of the ideal of "Greek Beauty" (and the beauty standards of cultures in the Mediterreanean littoral) was blonde hair.

The only concern I could see would be, how "blonde" is Greek blonde? I didn't make the hair colors, to be honest. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I'm not a coder. Every piece of hair in the game, for every culture, is entirely in grayscale, with the .gfx file assigning saturation ratios of RGB values to three broad categories of tonal range over the top. It's trivial to darken them for personal use, and I'm almost entirely sure that doing so does not change the checksum.

tl;dr: Crak'd does a lot of meticulous planning and research for these portraits, so it is a safe assumption that any element of these portraits - even if seemingly strange - are intentional.

 

[madviking]

way of life is here woo

 

[cybrxkhan]

^Aw yeah time for some sibling bonding without resorting to console commands.

(Though from what I've heard in the forums the seduction focus might be a bit OP, apparently one guy managed to seduce every single Christian queen he could.)

Unfortunately since I'm a modder I won't be able to actually play much per se, but I'll still give it a test run and all to see how it pans out.

EDIT:

If you're cheap like me, the best deal for WoL right now is on GMG. There's a voucher you can use to get 20% off, it's DECEMB-202014-GREENM.

 

[Civ'ed]

I don't like the new layout
I mean, some of it's nice, but my diplomacy screen box ;_;

 

[Kaitzilla]

CK II is -75% off on Steam again for the next 34 hours if anyone is interested in buying it.

 

[Arakhor]

I could certainly do without "Right-click to interact" all in capitals, but the rest of the UI is fairly decent.

 

[CivCube]

Not sure if I like the new Diplomacy UI. I'm sure I'll get used to it, it's just rather messy to look at.

 

[Double A]

Can someone post or link a screenie? I've kind of been busy with EU4 and now finals week.

 

[Yeekim]

You wanted a screenie? That's my marshal.

 

[shmily_dana]

Regarding the 75% off sale, I got the base game. Should I get the non-cosmetic DLC now? Or just enjoy learning the game first?

 

[Double A]

I meant of the dip menu, but that's pretty damn impressive, even before the Jegus.

If you think you'll really like CK2 (or already do) then get the DLC while it's cheap. Vanilla is a lot better with it all on, and most mods require or at least heavily recommend some (Legacy of Rome being foremost).

 

[scheva007]

Regarding the 75% off sale, I got the base game. Should I get the non-cosmetic DLC now? Or just enjoy learning the game first?

the dlc adds a ton of mechanics, so best to get them anyway. Without them the basegame is a bit empty sometimes

 

[madviking]

Regarding the 75% off sale, I got the base game. Should I get the non-cosmetic DLC now? Or just enjoy learning the game first?

madviking's tiers of ck2 dlc

1. expansions*
2. face packs
3. music
4. sunset invasion
5. everything else (units, coats of arms, etc.)