CTIV-7: King George the First

[Maquis]

I was reading through another SG where they were focused on a diplo win. In that game it looks like choosing your UN opponent is important. We need to figure out who is the least liked by the other AIs, so we can make sure they won't vote for them. This means pushing the disliked AI to the top of the population heap so they are assured to be your opponent.

It also seems that the decision isn't made until we are close to ready to build the UN. Before then, we just try to keep a few friends. I think at some time we should start gifting to a couple of the AIs so we can get their votes...

 

[Methos]

How's things going Bede?

 

[Bede]

How's things going Bede?

Pretty good actually.

Turn 150 (800 AD)
We are still in the hunt. My biggest convern is Philadelphia and our lack of worker support so take the following steps

Seattle begins: Worker
Boston begins: Worker

Los Angeles begins: Work Boat

Next thing I do is trade wine to the Mongol. The best way to get to Friendly terms is give them a reasonable deal and earn those "fair and forthright" and "resource trade" points. We pick up a few coins and within 5 turns he goes from Cautious to Pleased

Philadelphia finishes: Granary after a whipping

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Chicago begins: Lighthouse
The assault on Gepid

Leading with the City Raider promoted axe fails miserably
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (0.96/3)

So pull the axe out of LA to provide support to finish the job.

Then in goes the sword
Swordsman defeats (3.72/6): Barbarian Archer

That was better!

Not so good
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (2.43/3)
Sail the galley with an axe across to help.

Philadelphia begins: Lighthouse

Washington finishes: Granary

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Washington begins: Forge
Tech learned: Compass
Taoism has spread: Washington
Chicago grows: 3

Turn 153 (860 AD)

Chicago begins: Harbor
New York grows: 6
Boston's borders expand
Boston finishes: Worker
Christianity has spread: Boston
Philadelphia finishes: Lighthouse
Atlanta grows: 5
Atlanta finishes: Courthouse
Chicago finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 154 (880 AD)
Research begun: Construction
Boston begins: Swordsman
Philadelphia begins: Courthouse
Atlanta begins: Galley
Philadelphia's borders expand
Chicago finishes: Granary

Barbarian archer attacks out of Gepid and gets the swordsman promoted
Swordsman defeats (5.46/6): Barbarian Archer

Turn 155 (900 AD)

Spain gives us a hand by capturing Scythian . No more cultural pressure on Philadelphia
Boston begins: Library to catch the lumber from a hill side forestry operation (I so dislike simking trees into troops
Chicago begins: Harbor
San Francisco finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 156 (920 AD)
Make another try for Gepid and succeed this time
Swordsman defeats (2.40/6): Barbarian Archer

Axeman defeats (0.60/5): Barbarian Archer
Captured Gepid (Barbarian) with a worker who heads off to cut some trees into bookshelves
Gepid begins: Library
Chicago grows: 4

Turn 157 (940 AD)
Boston begins: Library
Boston grows: 9
Atlanta grows: 6
Seattle finishes: Worker who heads into the trees for some more lumberjacking

Turn 158 (960 AD)
Seattle begins: Lighthouse
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Philadelphia grows: 3
Atlanta finishes: Galley
Seattle grows: 3
San Francisco grows: 2

Turn 159 (980 AD)
Atlanta begins: Galley we need boats to support the corn isle and there is another barbarian city over there
Tech learned: Construction I want this for catapults and elephants from the barbarian lands
Chicago grows: 5
Los Angeles finishes: Work Boat which is sailed off to the Seattle fishery.

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Research begun: Civil Service. it would be nice to have Bureaucrats
New York begins: Courthouse

The lighthouses and courthouses did reasonable things for the cash flow while the extra workers are trying to develop commerce sources for us (or chopping trees for things like libraries and courthouses. I would really like to get a monastery into a productive town so we can get some religion and cultural expansions without the libraries. And now Irealize there is a monastery in Philadelphia but the town currently lacks the hammers to train them effectively.

I used the whip to complete some of the building projects and we need to make more and better use of it to get infrastructure up (Forges, courthouses, lighthouses and such. We need about three more workers, but all the core towns now have a dedicated serf for plot improvement.

We are now on "Pleased" terms with Monte and the Khan but Isabella is starting to encroach from the SE. This could get nasty shortly if she decides we make a better target than Mao.

Our only real technology trading opportunities are with the Spanish Queen, but she is the odd man out right so I wouldn't waste them on her. Start trading rhe spare resources and even some of the not spare, as we are way long on health and happiness resources for our population. If we develop reasonable trading relations with all but Izzy we hould be in pretty good shape going forward.

The realm

 

[ChrTh]

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede > Just Played
Methos > UP
Scowler > On Deck
Maquis
Conroe

Good turns there! Great news about Scythian!

 

[Methos]

Got it....

 

[Conroe]

Spain gives us a hand by capturing Scythian . No more cultural pressure on Philadelphia

Way to go, Izzy! Question for you, though, Bede. It is kind of difficult to tell from the picture, but it looks like Philly's borders did not expand after Scythian fell. Can you confirm this?

Research begun: Civil Service. it would be nice to have Bureaucrats

I would have to agree with this statement. With our current situation in this game, I think revolting to Bureaucracy is a no-brainer.

What isn't a no-brainer is switching to Caste System at the same time. What does the team think about that? At some point, we are going to have to give up Slavery since we will need the population for the UN vote. And the fastest way to get a border pop in a new city is to run an Artist specialist for 3 turns. The main reason I would consider it, though, is to start running with Merchant specialist. Since we have the food, this would pay for some of our expenses and allow us to up the research slider. And the gold from a trade mission would help this along even further.

Our only real technology trading opportunities are with the Spanish Queen, but she is the odd man out right so I wouldn't waste them on her. Start trading rhe spare resources and even some of the not spare, as we are way long on health and happiness resources for our population. If we develop reasonable trading relations with all but Izzy we hould be in pretty good shape going forward.

I'm thinking that annexing Spain's population may be the way to go. We wouldn't get a diplomatic penalty from any of the other AI, plus she is the weakest of the AI (at least as of my turns). However, we still have a long way to go to catch up with her on the power graph.

 

[ChrTh]

Conroe, you have some good ideas there. If I get a chance to look at the save before I leave I'll try to provide a more worthwhile response

 

[Methos]

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Methos: MM DC to get her to start growing again
Methos: We have eight workers for ten cities, not good. Will get a few more workers up and running.
New York grows: 7
New York finishes: Forge

Turn 161 (1010 AD)
New York begins: Worker
Methos: Mao wants to sign an OB agreement, but I decline. Monte and him just don't seem to get a long.
Washington grows: 9
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Chicago grows: 6
Seattle finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 162 (1020 AD)
Washington finishes: Forge
Boston grows: 10
Christianity has spread: San Francisco

Turn 163 (1030 AD)
Washington begins: Worker
New York finishes: Worker
Philadelphia grows: 4
Chicago grows: 7
Seattle grows: 4
San Francisco finishes: Courthouse
Los Angeles grows: 2
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (0.84/3)

Turn 164 (1040 AD)
New York begins: Worker
San Francisco begins: Library
Methos: I moved our axemen closer to the barb city of Avar, only to have him destroyed by an archer.
Methos: I'm able to up our research to 60%.
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Atlanta finishes: Galley

Turn 165 (1050 AD)
Atlanta begins: Forge
Methos: That sucks, the barb city of Avar was captured by the Spanish. Looks like she may become a victim of us soon.
Atlanta grows: 7

Turn 166 (1060 AD)
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Chicago grows: 8
San Francisco grows: 3

Turn 167 (1070 AD)
Washington finishes: Worker
New York finishes: Worker
Seattle grows: 5

Turn 168 (1080 AD)
Washington begins: Aqueduct
New York begins: Worker
Washington begins: Harbor
Tech learned: Civil Service
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Philadelphia grows: 5
Atlanta's borders expand

Turn 169 (1090 AD)
Research begun: Paper

Sorry for the info lacking turn log.

Currently Mao is at war with both Izzy and Monte. I find it odd they’re both working together. Monte has friends, but they appear to be upset with him a little for declaring on their friend.

I stopped one turn short so we could discuss civics changes. I also started research on Paper but wasn't absolutely certain this was the best way to go. No beakers have been invested so we should discuss this as well.

Roster:
ChrTh – Skip 3/25 thru 4/1
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

 

[Scowler]

Some quick comments on the current situation:

We still don't seem to have many trading options. A little disturbing how far behind we are getting in tech. Even so, I'm wondering whether it might be worth grabbing Currency first as it is only 4 turns away and will immediately give us an extra trade route.

I see that we have at least -1 from everybody for either trading with enemies or refusing to help. So we really ought to think about who we are going to support for the rest of the game. At the moment nobody really hates us, but nobody really likes us either. We can't afford to dither much longer.

By the look of it, we should also spend some time building up our military. We don't want to present an easy target once the others run out of space.

I liked Conroe's suggestion about Caste System. Given our current tech status we need all the help we can get.

Good to see a harbor on the way in DC. We have quite a few coastal cities so building more harbors would be another useful source of income (once we get that extra trade route).

 

[Conroe]

Thanks for posting those screenshots, Scowler. That power graph should be a wake up call for us. Not only are we dead last in troops, but we are dead last by a country mile! We need to start building troops!

The demographics screen shows a little bit of good news. We are 2nd in land area. If we conquer Spain, we would then most likely be in first. Excellent news! Our GNP is up to 3rd, just a hair below the average. Our cottages are starting to grow. Scowler's suggestion of currency would help this out even more. Have we cottaged everything that we can, yet?

But look, we are 1st in production! Wow! We didn't kick off a golden age did we? Let's use that production capacity to build us some troops!

We are dead last in population, but that number does not concern me at the moment. I attribute it to our use of the . Once we get out of Slavery, that number should start to go up. Especially considering that we are 1st in crop yield. The population growth should also help out our GNP situation, assuming that we have built all of the cottages.

That sucks, the barb city of Avar was captured by the Spanish. Looks like she may become a victim of us soon.

This really isn't a big deal. We can let Izzy pay the maintenance costs while the city grows and becomes productive. We can then capture it later with the rest of her empire.

I liked Conroe's suggestion about Caste System. Given our current tech status we need all the help we can get.

If we are going to switch to caste, then do one last round with the before we switch. After that, once cities hit max pop, we can hire Merchants to defray our maintenance cost. As long as we are in Bureaucracy, though, no specialist in the capitol. Depending on the border situation in Philly, we may want to consider hiring artists there to push out our borders. Plus, we could still use a Great Artist for a culture bomb. Either to flip Scythian or to pull Madrid out of revolt.

I also started research on Paper but wasn't absolutely certain this was the best way to go. No beakers have been invested so we should discuss this as well.

I would hold off on Paper until we can build Macemen. I would research towards Currency then Machinery. What about trading? Are Monarchy and Civil Service monopoly techs? I would think long and hard before trading a monopoly tech, but if they are not a monopoly ... It would be nice to pick up something with these techs while we still can.

A little disturbing how far behind we are getting in tech.

Disturbing is probably an understatement. If we can get our GNP number up, I'm hoping we can gain the tech lead. I'm thinking that a tech lead (or at least tech parity), combined with a successful Spanish campaign will be the keys to us winning this game.

 

[Bede]

Currency then Machinery sems to be the soundest direction, but what do I know?

Setting up to swallow Spain would serve two needs: getting friendship points with Mao and getting our land are up.

If that MFG number is a good one, let's get some troops traineds and on the borders, ready to for Isabella.

If we can get two good sizable friends (Mao and Kublai) and get our land area and population numbers up then researching to Mass Media and nailing the vote should be more than feasible.

 

[Scowler]

Unless Methos particularly wants to play out his final turn I'm going to tackle the save this evening.

 

[Methos]

Unless Methos particularly wants to play out his final turn I'm going to tackle the save this evening.

Look above Scowler and you'll see I already played. As a matter of fact you even made suggestions of my save!

Edit: Whoops, just remembered I stopped with one turn left on my turnset. I totally forgot about that . Go ahead Scowler, finish her off.

 

[Scowler]

Largely uneventful turns spent pushing workers around.

Turn 0 (1090 AD)
Research is switched from Paper to Currency, as agreed.
Library is whipped at Seattle
Looking round the empire I notice that LA is building a library in 8 turns, which seems inefficient to me since there is no urgency to expand borders here and we can build a lighthouse in 6 turns that will improve growth.
Los Angeles begins: Lighthouse

IBT:
Chicago grows: 9
Seattle finishes: Library

Turn 1 (1100 AD)
Harbor whipped at Chicago
Lighthouse whipped at LA
Seattle begins: Courthouse

IBT:
New York finishes: Worker
Boston finishes: Library
Chicago finishes: Harbor
Los Angeles finishes: Lighthouse
Islam founded in a distant land

Turn 2 (1110 AD)
While checking around for trading possibilities I notice that Cyrus has 5gpt burning a hole in his pocket. Our health is currently satisfactory (any growth limits will come from happiness rather than health), so I offer him pigs for his 5gpt and he accepts. Hopefully, this will lead to better relations down the line; for the moment Cyrus is one of the "safe", neutral characters who isn't hated by anybody.
Boston begins: Christian Monastery
Chicago begins: Forge
Los Angeles begins: Library
New York begins: Courthouse

IBT:
Chicago grows: 9
Seattle grows: 5

Turn 3 (1120 AD)
DC whips harbor
NY whips courthouse
Boston whips monastery
Philly whips courthouse
Atlanta whips Forge


IBT:
Tech learned: Currency
Washington finishes: Harbor
New York finishes: Courthouse
Boston grows: 9
Boston finishes: Christian Monastery
Philadelphia finishes: Courthouse
Atlanta finishes: Forge
San Francisco's borders expand

Turn 4 (1130 AD)
Mansa wants OB. It should be safe to agree to this as the war has now removed him from everybody else's hitlist.
Montezuma also comes calling, looking to trade some resources with us, but I decline.
We revolt to Bureaucracy / Caste System
Research begun: Machinery
Washington begins: Lighthouse
New York begins: Market
Boston begins: Market
Philadelphia begins: Harbor
Atlanta begins: Harbor

Turn 5 (1140 AD)
Izzy and Mao declare peace

IBT:
Washington grows: 8
Washington finishes: Lighthouse
Philadelphia grows: 5
Atlanta grows: 7

Turn 6 (1150 AD)
Washington begins: Market

IBT:
Chicago grows: 10
Gepid grows: 3

Turn 7 (1160 AD)
Washington grows: 9
Seattle grows: 6

Turn 8 (1170 AD)


IBT:
Tech learned: Machinery
Philadelphia grows: 6
Los Angeles finishes: Library

Turn 9 (1180 AD)
Research begun: Paper
Los Angeles begins: Granary

Like Methos I've stopped a turn short with Paper set up, but once again that's the way the techs have fallen and it's a good place to take stock and reassess our strategy.

My first task this round was to improve our GNP. This was achieved without difficulty, thanks to Currency and the change in civics. Workers spent their time almost exclusively building cottages. A number of money-related projects, including courthouses, harbors, and markets were either completed or set in motion. I hired 3 merchants at Chicago as the city had reached its happiness limit (and I also hired an artist at Philly as some squares are still under cultural pressure). We are now running +20gpt @60%; it is not worth turning science up any further for the time being, but this situation should soon change as our cities reach their growth limits - many are already quite close.

Once again the demographics screen appears to be buggy:

However, I failed completely at the second task: building up our military. I judged financial improvement and infrastructure to be a higher priority and the most obviously militaristic civs were already occupied elsewhere. I would recommend that the next player tackles this area, especially now that macemen are available.

I was unable to do any tech trading. The only possible partner was Izzy, who is similarly "out of the loop". Again, this is an area that requires urgent attention, but the addition of more merchants will certainly help our research speed.

 

[Methos]

Roster:
ChrTh – Skip 3/25 thru 4/1
Bede
Methos
Scowler- Just Played
Maquis- Up
Conroe- On Deck

 

[Conroe]

GNP Graph

Once again the demographics screen appears to be buggy:

Demographics

Hopefully it is the demographics screen that is buggy and not the graph. I much prefer the number on the GNP graph!

 

[Maquis]

Sorry for the late post, but I got it. I'll be playing my turns in a few hours.

 

[Maquis]

An interesting turnset, at least from the diplomatic standpoint...

Turn 1: Monty asks to join him againt Mao...nope, sorry bud.
Same turn... Mao then asks to declare on Monty. I decide that we can't really trust Monty to be our friend. I declare. I think that Mao, being middle of the road, score-wise is a better choice for an ally.
Here's where it gets interesting... Cyrus also declares on Monty the same turn. This helps us a little, as we get the +'s for a "mutual struggle" with Cyrus as well.
This is going to be a phony war, as Monty is on the other side of Mao, and he will be focused on Mao and Cyrus.

Turn 4: Paper in, so I trade with Cyrus for Mono + Drama + optics + world map + 120g
I also trade with Mao, Drama for Horseback riding and Paper for Theology (Did not revolt)

This catches us up a little in the tech race. I set research to Printing Press, I think the added commerce will be a big help. Right now we are running 70% sci, and once this is in, hopefully we can crank it up even further.

Turn 10: Great Merchant is born in Chicago. I am not sure what to do with him, so left him unmoved. Right now he would learn Printing Press, but we have already researched 1/2 of it. Would he learn Banking next? Not sure.


Misc: I see that Gepid has no culture yet, so I hire a couple artists for a few turns, to get the initial border pop. Los Angeles also expanded. There are now fish in LA, and clams in Gepid that need to be improved. Building a work boat in San Francisco, and need to build another.

I'll follow up with some thoughts in the morning... it's getting late...

Spoiler :

Turn 178 (1180 AD)

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
New York finishes: Market

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
New York begins: Granary
Washington grows: 10
Boston finishes: Market
Seattle grows: 7

Turn 181 (1210 AD)
Boston begins: Forge
New York grows: 6
New York finishes: Granary
Boston grows: 10
Atlanta finishes: Harbor
San Francisco grows: 4

Turn 182 (1220 AD)
New York begins: Library
Atlanta begins: Catapult
Tech learned: Paper
Philadelphia grows: 7
Atlanta grows: 8
Los Angeles's borders expand
Gepid grows: 4
Gepid's borders expand

Turn 183 (1230 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
Tech learned: Monotheism
Tech learned: Drama
Tech learned: Optics
Washington grows: 11

Turn 184 (1240 AD)
Washington's borders expand
Seattle grows: 8
San Francisco finishes: Library

Turn 185 (1250 AD)
Tech learned: Theology
Tech learned: Horseback Riding
San Francisco begins: Work Boat
Philadelphia grows: 8
Atlanta finishes: Catapult
Chicago finishes: Forge
Seattle finishes: Courthouse

Turn 186 (1260 AD)
Atlanta begins: Market
Chicago begins: Market
Seattle begins: Granary
New York finishes: Library
Chicago's borders expand

Turn 187 (1270 AD)
New York begins: Theatre
Washington grows: 12
Washington finishes: Market
Boston finishes: Forge
Hanno (Great Merchant) born in Chicago

Turn 188 (1280 AD)

So with Cyrus' WM, we can see where everyone is:

And the save:

 

[Methos]

Roster:
ChrTh- On Deck
Bede
Methos
Scowler
Maquis- Just Played
Conroe- Up

 

[Conroe]

Got It ...

Today is probably going to be a hectic day. It will be tomorrow before I get a chance to play this.

I'll follow up with some thoughts in the morning... it's getting late...

Please do ... I am looking forward to this ... If anyone else has any thoughts, please feel free to post them as well.