CTIV-7: King George the First

[Maquis]

What my thoughts were diplomatically:

First off, I thought I was taking a chance by agreeing to Mao's request to declare on Monty. The bit with Cyrus decalring was a great help to our relationship with him. As for Monty, he was our friend, but he's dead last in score, and may not last with Mao and Cyrus (who's leading in power) at war with him. As you can see from the map, Monty is really squeezed in, and only has 4 cities ATM.

We don't need to be friends with our opponent in the UN vote. Right now it looks like Kahn is leading in pop. I don't think we want to cultivate a relationship with him.

I still like the plan to take on Izzy, although I didn't work too hard on a militray buildup. I was working on getting our production and commerce built up. There are a few cities now that are fully improved, at least until lumbermills, etc, are available.

Basically, I think if we can add Izzy's pop to our own, and get Mao and Cyrus on our good side, that should give us a fair shot at winning the vote.

Too bad we haven't been able to get any religion bonus with the other civs yet. We'd need buddism to get in their favor. I think we can grab that from some of Izzy's cities?

 

[Conroe]

We don't need to be friends with our opponent in the UN vote. Right now it looks like Kahn is leading in pop. I don't think we want to cultivate a relationship with him.

Just looking at the world map that you posted, it looked to me that Mao was the biggest. From what I could tell, Khan was pretty close to maxing out his population. Whereas, Mao and some of the others still have room to grow. Of course, as I said, I am looking at the posted picture and some of the numbers are kind of hard to read. I could be wrong, but here's the numbers that I came up with:

CTIV-7 .. 10 Cities @ 71 Total Population
Mao ...... 9 Cities @ 66
Mansa .... 8 Cities @ 62
Khan ..... 5 Cities @ 60
Cyrus .... 6 Cities @ 54
Izzy ..... 7 Cities @ 55 plus at least one more city not shown on the map
Monty .... 4 Cities @ 41​

Personally, I think our UN opponent will be either Mao, Mansa, or Cyrus. Is it worth it to try and cultivate a relationship with all 3? Possibly. It would probably behoove us to keep Kahn and Monty happy, though, since those two probably will not be an opponent.

I still like the plan to take on Izzy, although I didn't work too hard on a militray buildup. I was working on getting our production and commerce built up. There are a few cities now that are fully improved, at least until lumbermills, etc, are available.

When I originally proposed annexing Spain, she only had slightly more troops than we did. But, she started building forces, while we stagnated. But, we had a tech advantage over her once we got Macemen; so it was still a doable plan. But, we still have not built up any forces. At this point, I'm not sure that it is still a viable plan. By the time we build up the forces to go to war, there is a real possibility that we will be facing Macemen, or worse, Conquistadors. We may have to delay the Spanish invasion until we have Grenadiers or even pick a different civ to annex.

Too bad we haven't been able to get any religion bonus with the other civs yet. We'd need buddism to get in their favor. I think we can grab that from some of Izzy's cities?

It would certainly be nice to pick up Buddhism. Hopefully, Izzy won't convert to it before we invade! That would be a real diplomatic kick in the pants. Let's face it, all of those religious techs that we picked up are useless to us right now. With the state that our forces are in, there is no way that we can convert to a religion and not have some other civ walk all over us.

 

[ChrTh]

Hey gang, I'm back, I'll be able to go after Conroe.

 

[Conroe]

Wow, things have certainly changed since I have last seen the game. We actually have an empire now. The demographics are starting to look better, with us being in first in GNP, production, and food.

We have had some discussion of invading Spain and annexing Izzy's population. Her army is quite a bit larger than ours, but we apparently have quite a tech advantage on her. Take a look at the defenses of Scythian:

We would only need 3 Macemen to overrun this city! A peek at the military advisor screens shows ... that we have ... NO Macemen. Scythian has a 40% cultural defense bonus. My guess, from looking at the map, is that Izzy's other cities will have 60% or 80% defenses. We are definitely going to need to bring along some Catapults. We have exactly 1 Catapult, and it was built in a city without a Barracks. Here is what our forces look like:

Of the 10 cities that we have, only 3 of them have a Barracks. Several of these cities would make good troop training facilities. Unfortunately, most are currently building city infrastructure that has over a dozen turns to complete. If I override their build queue, we risk losing those hammers that are already invested.

We still have a tech lead on Izzy, but that could change shortly. She has Machinery but lacks Civil Service, Feudalism, and Guilds. I would presume that she is currently researching Feudalism to pickup the Longbowmen. I should also note that Cyrus, who is pleased with us, is also pleased with Izzy.

Financially, we are in great shape! We have 474 gold in the bank and are adding to it at +18gpt. The research slider is sitting at 70%. Their are 5 turns left on our research of Printing Press, which will improve our economy even more. Our Venerable Monk suggested that we beeline to Mass Media and the UN; the Printing Press is a required tech on that beeline. After Printing Press, though, there are two paths that we can take to the UN. The quickest way is through Astronomy. But, we do not get a big boost from this tech on this map. The slow way, adding about another 25 turns, is through Education and Chemistry. I'm inclined to go the slow route because I think we will need the Grenadiers. We could also make another ~15 turn detour for Liberalism and the Free Religion civic, which could give us a couple of extra votes come UN time. Mansa Musa will probably be the one to get the free Liberalism tech, though.

Also of interest is corn island. That map that Maquis bought shows that corn island is not an island after all. It is a penninsula that leads into the heart of Spain.

Turn 0 - 1280AD: Washington and Boston both had an empty build queue, so I start them on Macemen. I also MM both of these cities for max hammers.

I bump the research slider up a notch to 80% which brings Printing Press in 1 turn sooner. We are now spending at -12gpt, but we also have a Great Merchant available for a trade mission. I head him off towards the Chinese border. Kumbi Salah in Mali looks like it might be a suitably profitable destination. I also upgrade our Chariot to a Horse Archer for 100 gold. The Horse Archer will escort our Great Merchant.

Take a look at the former barb city of Gepid. Four food resources are within the city radius! How I wish we were still in slavery! This city will make a real nice GP farm for us someday!

Turn 1 - 1290AD: I preempt the Macemen builds in Washington and Boston for Archers. I notice that some of our cities are using Swords for MP duty.

IBT: Montezuma and Cyrus sign a peace treaty. We are now the only civ at war with Montezuma. He is willing to sign a peace treaty if we give him 10 gold. I should probably do it, but I decide to wait.

Turn 2 - 1300AD: Los Angeles finishes its Granary and starts a Forge. Since the city is size 1, I set it for growth rather than production.

Turn 3 - 1310AD: New York completes its Theatre and starts training a Maceman. Meanwhile, a Work Boat, bound for LA, is built in San Francisco. The city begins construction of a Barracks, next.

Our Great Merchant cannot make it to Malinese territory since we do not have open borders with China. I decide to send him into Mongolia instead. Here is a look at some of Khan's defenses:

Turn 4 - 1320AD: Printing Press comes in. I start us on the road to Chemistry by researching Education. We will probably want to trade it for Engineering when it comes in.

Our first Maceman is trained in Washington and another one is started. Boston trains our second Maceman and also starts another one.

Turn 5 - 1330AD: The former barb city of Gepid completes its Library and begins construction of a Granary.

Turn 6 - 1340AD: Here is an intel report of the defenses of Khan's capitol:

Our Great Merchant conducts a trade mission for 1500 gold. We now have 1789 gold in the treasury, so I bump the research slider up to 100%. This shaves a turn off of the Education research, but we are spending at -84gpt.

IBT: Montezuma calls us and offers a peace treaty if we give him Paper. Uh, ... NO!

Turn 7 - 1350AD: Washington trains a Maceman and starts another one. New York also trains a Maceman and starts another one. Boston does the same thing.

Philadelphia completes a Harbor. The city doesn't really have enough hammers to begin troop training, so I start it on a Forge instead.

Turn 8 - 1360AD: Boston trains a Maceman and starts another one.

IBT: Mansa Musa discovers Liberalism and gets the Free Tech.

Turn 9 - 1370AD:

IBT: Isabella demands Currency. The power graph is looking a little bit better, so I decline.

Turn 10 - 1380AD: Education comes in. Gunpowder is up next on the way to Chemistry.

Washington trains a Maceman and starts on a Catapult.

Turn 11 - 1390AD: Washington builds a Catapult and goes back to Maceman training. New York trains a Maceman and starts on a Catapult. Boston trains a Maceman and starts another one.

I decided to play 11 turns because our year numbers are off. Both Methos and Scowler only played 9 turns. If ChrTh will also play 11 turns, the year numbers will be back in synch.

 

[Conroe]

The biggest news to report is that Monty's forces have arrived in our territory! I'm not sure what he has in mind, but I think we have enough forces on hand to deal with both of his units.

As you can tell from my turnlog, I concentrated on building us an army. We still have a lock on last place in the demographics, but the power graph is showing some improvement:

Of course, what is most interesting about that power graph is Mansa Musa. A straight up line like that leads me to believe he has been doing some massive upgrading. I'm wondering if he doesn't have Grenadiers.

Speaking of which, we are still the tech laggard. Pretty much everybody already has Gunpowder and Engineering, the prerequisites of Chemistry. It would be nice if we could acquire these through trade. With our GNP numbers, we will most likely start pulling away from the pack after Chemistry.

As you can see, I trained 9 Macemen, a Catapult, and some Archers. We still need a lot more troops if we want to go to war. We should probably just leave New York on cat construction for the time being. May I suggest that Chicago and Atlanta be outfitted with Barracks' after they finish their current infrastructure builds? Both of these cities would make good troop training facilities.

 

[ChrTh]

Roster:
ChrTh > UP
Bede > On Deck
Methos
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe > Just Played

Looks like I may have some work cut out for me...I'm probably going to take it slow (and will play 11). I'll be playing tomorrow night most likely.

 

[Conroe]

Looks like I may have some work cut out for me...

Oh, it shouldn't be too bad. The hardest part is managing all of those workers. And Monty's invasion force is no match for our Macemen. They are just here to give our mace's an extra promotion. Or, give Monty 10g and he will go away ... your call ...

 

[Bede]

If the people don't mind the ongoing war with Monte, no reason to stop now. And if he is going to send a cat and Jag for our troops to train on even better.

Nice job finally getting us a military Conroe. May the force be with ChrTh!

This is not an uncommon position to be in for a Monarch game...just slightly behind the tech curve but beginning to make it up as the economy gets into gear. If we annex Liz'z territory and population and continue to grow ours as we have been, unless Mansa launches a spaceship before the UN is built we should do just fine. Monte and Izzy will be the continental punching bags, I think.

 

[Conroe]

If we annex Liz'z territory and population and continue to grow ours as we have been, unless Mansa launches a spaceship before the UN is built we should do just fine. Monte and Izzy will be the continental punching bags, I think.

You are probably correct. Although, I am concerned about how close Izzy has gotton to Cyrus. He will give us a -1 when we declare on her, for certain. Fortunately, I don't think she has anything of value to bribe him to declare on us. We definitely don't have the forces to take on the big boys. It would be nice if she declared on us ...

Oh, I probably should have mentioned it in my turn log. But, many of our cities are starting to reach max population. For the moment, we won't have much more significant growth. Once the fighting is done, we should be able to rectify this, though. Sorry about the oversight.

 

[Bede]

If we cozy up to (H)issy's enemies and keep pressuring her borders it will eventually drive her to attack, and it is a short drive in most cases. We just need to be sure we are prepared when she does, as it is not a matter of "if", she is a psycho bunny unless ChrTh went woith random personalities.

 

[ChrTh]

Hey guys, ran into a little problem in CTIV-6, and I didn't get to the game tonight. I can play tomorrow night (EDT), but Bede, if you want to play tonight we can swap.

 

[Bede]

Has a late night at the shop tonight and a later one tomorrow, so stay the course ChrTh as I won't be playing well on either one.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, no problem, I'll get to it tomorrow.

 

[ChrTh]

Oh, it shouldn't be too bad. The hardest part is managing all of those workers. And Monty's invasion force is no match for our Macemen. They are just here to give our mace's an extra promotion. Or, give Monty 10g and he will go away ... your call ...

You better be right, because work put me in a lousy mood and I can not be held responsible for any and all wars I start this turn ...

(Playing 11)

Turn 0 -- 1390 AD

I decide that removing Monty's forces will make me feel better. Unfortunately, one of our Maces dies in the assault (with ~90% odds!) ... after doing so, I negotiate a cease fire for free.

Demographically we're doing great, outside of Approval Rate, Soldiers, and Imports/Exports; the first is from prior whipping, I bet (does the AI get happiness bonuses at Monarch?), the second we're working on, and the last is due to some Open Borders with Mansa. Hrm, since Mansa is currently positioned to be our prime opponent in the future, I decide to cancel Open Borders with him. That moves us up to 4th.

Cyrus doesn't have Printing Press, so I trade it +200 gold to him for Engineering and Feudalism.

Boston can grow again, so I mm it out of stagnation.

Turn 1 -- 1400 AD

Monty and Mansa are now at war!

Seattle completes Granary, starts Theatre because it's now unhappy. I also send one of the swords at our border to it for Military Police.

Oh wait, I send the Maceman in a galley to Seattle. That'll keep them happy until the Sword arrives.

You were not kidding about the workers.

On the tech front, everyone but Izzy has Guilds.

Turn 2 -- 1410 AD

Well, Thucydides pegs us dead last in Power. Here are the rankings:
1st -- Mansa
2nd -- Mao
3rd -- Cyrus
4th -- Kublai
5th -- Izzy
6th -- Monty (wow!)
7th -- US

Mansa wants us to declare on Monty. I decline.

Gunpowder is in, start Chemistry. Mansa already has it.

New York: Catapult > Musket

You know, it's absolutely ridiculous how weak Isabella is. She's going down in 2 turns.

Turn 3 -- 1420 AD

Washington: Mace > Pike
Boston: Mace > Pike
Atlanta: Market > Barracks

Mansa adopts Free Market. Hrm. I don't reopen borders with him, though.

Oh no! Scythians' influence has grown, stealing our Bananas!

If I wasn't planning on war next turn before, I'm definitely now. Here's the Southern Expeditionary Force:

Turn 4 -- 1430 AD

San Francisco: Barracks > Forge

ATTACK! One worker is taken as the stack comes across on both sides.

Looks like there are troops concentrated in Santiago:

I verify Izzy and Kublai don't have Open Borders and use the Scout to um, scout, her Western border.

Turn 5 -- 1440 AD

No counterattack.

Boston: Pike > Pike (considering all the Horse Archers in Santiago, not a bad idea to have them in the stack)

Reduce Scythian to 33% defense. Mace kills Archer. Mace kills Spear.
Scythian is taken (100 gold). I keep it as a staging area for the attack.

One of the Archers from Scythian was bolting. I'm able to catch up and kill him. I pillage Fishing boats.

Assault on Murcia: Lose 1 Sword, Kill 2 Archers and a Spear. Keep it for the gold and because I'm running out of things to do with my workers over here.

Ok, Izzy has 4 Horse Archers and a Sword (from Santiago) across a river from the fortified stack in a jungle. Will she attack?

Turn 6 -- 1450 AD

She does, sacrificing 1 Horse Archer.

Mao comes looking for Open Borders, I decide to go for it before realizing he has Mercantilism

Washington: Pike > Pike
New York: Musket > Pike
Chicago: Market > Courthouse


Kill all the Horse Archers and Sword and Catapult nearby without a loss. Kill off an Explorer outside Murcia for good measure.

We're now #1 in score, and we've moved past Monty and Izzy in Power.

Santiago (our next target) is guarded by 2 archers, an axe, and a Jewish missionary. There are also 3 horse archers and 2 catapults a couple tiles South of Santiago. Not sure if they're heading to defend Santiago or attempt an attack of our position (Horse Archers can reach us, Cats can't).

There's a Sword and Cat SW of Seville approaching our position as well.

Turn 7 -- 1460 AD

Chemistry is in, start Guilds (due in 3). I can trade it around, but not really interesting in doing so.

Kublai Khan, seeing the way the wind is blowing, declares war on Izzy. He's going to get to Seville before we will. I make an attack on Santiago our priority...unfortunately there's a War Elephant in our way.

Hrm, Izzy has a Galley with 2 Horse Archers heading our way. I upgrade Gepid's Archer to Grenadier--just in case.

Our Catapult withdraws from Combat after wounding the War Elephant! Then a Catapult kills a Horse Archer! But then we lose the 3rd Catapult. Kill off everything else except for the War Elephant (down to 0.2) with the loss of only a wounded mace (I made a risky strike because I wanted to take out the War Elephant as well).

Kublai has troops heading towards Santiago as well as Seville, but there aren't many troops in either stack (5 towards Seville, 3 towards Santiago).

Turn 8 -- 1470 AD

Kublai Khan demands Chemistry, I give it to him, he's now friendly.

Washington, Boston: Pike > Grenadier

Islam has spread to our lands. I do not convert.

Teotihuacan has been captured by the Malinese Empire!

Isabella now has Longbows. Seville is still better defended than Santiago. Guess I attacked just in time.

War Weariness is starting to take a hold. Culture is at 20%, but more military police are needed.

Turn 9 -- 1480 AD

New York: Pike > Catapult
Atlanta: Barracks > Catapult
Gepid: Granary > Lighthouse

Hrm, Isabella is actually looking to strike at Ning-Hsia.



Turn 10 -- 1490 AD

Kublai Khan is foolish enough to think I'll trade him Horses. I trade him Cows for Gems instead.

Los Angeles: Forge > Barracks
Scythian starts a Theatre. Ditto Murcia.

Attack on Santiago. Kublai has already bombarded, so 2 strikes with my catapults gets defense down to 14%. One very wounded War Elephant, 2 Longbowmen, and an Axe are the defenders.

None of my odds look very good, I think I'll let Kublai take a stab at it first (he doesn't have enough troops to take it).

Turn 11 -- 1500 AD

Guilds come in. Start Banking (can be vetoed)
New York: Cat > Cat
Seattle: Theatre > Harbor

Santiago is bombarded down to 0%. Other Catapult attacks, does good amount of damage before Dying.

Mace defeats Longbow. Musket defeats Axe. Axe defeats Longbow. Pike defeats War Elephant. We capture Santiago.

Ok, I have a group of workers in Gepid. Keep them there until the galley with the Horse Archers depart.

It's up to the next player how they want to continue the war. Kublai pulled back from Seville to defend against the assault on Ning-Hsia, so that's a possibility for us to attack now.

Here's our new southern area:

Here's the save:
View attachment 122358

Roster:
ChrTh > Just Played
Bede > UP
Methos > On Deck
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe

Don't worry too much about the cultural pressure around Scythian, it's pretty weak (like 9% Mongolian), so it should be banishable pretty quick (maybe hire an artist?).

Diplomatic idea of the Day: If you have the highest population, go for Mass Media, and then trade it to someone you're not in good relations with (and not many people like) and let them build the UN.

 

[ChrTh]

One more thing: The troops lingering outside Salamanca can probably head to Seville to help in an assault there, or you can send troops down to assault Salamanca. Seville is a better target, though, for now.

 

[Conroe]

If I wasn't planning on war next turn before, I'm definitely now.

Personally, I did not feel that we were ready for war. I didn't think we had near enough cats. Obviously, I was wrong. You have had some tremendous success there, CT! And, we got a few licks in before she got longbows.

I pillage Fishing boats.

I'm not sure I like this idea. I think it is OK to pillage strategic resources (iron, horses, etc.), but I would think we would want to keep the food resources so the cities do not starve. Definitely, though, absolutely NO pillaging of cottages! We want these captured cities to be able to pay their own way once they come out of revolt.

Assault on Murcia: ... Keep it for the gold and because ...

Don't we want to keep all of the cities? The point of this war is to annex population. Hopefully it is our only war (well, real war anyway) during this game.

Islam has spread to our lands. I do not convert.

This brings up an interesting point. At some point BEFORE Scientific Method is researched, we want to build one of each kind of Monastery. We are going to want to spread all of our religions to all of our cities for the happiness boost before building the UN. We don't need a Monastery in every city, just one for every religion.

War Weariness is starting to take a hold. Culture is at 20%, but more military police are needed.

I say we ignore the war weariness. It will all go away once the war ends. In the meantime, keeping bumping the culture slider up until it hits 100% and we are out of money. Just run our economy straight into the ground! At that point, we can end the war. Hopefully, Izzy will be wiped out before that happens.

Guilds come in. Start Banking (can be vetoed)

I liked Brother Bede's idea of beelining to Mass Media. To me, the only reason we research Banking is to get the free Great Merchant that comes with Economics. At 1500 gold for a trade mission, that may not be a bad idea.

It's up to the next player how they want to continue the war. Kublai pulled back from Seville to defend against the assault on Ning-Hsia, so that's a possibility for us to attack now.

I want Madrid. Of course, the road to Madrid leads through Seville, doesn't it?

Don't worry too much about the cultural pressure around Scythian, it's pretty weak (like 9% Mongolian), so it should be banishable pretty quick (maybe hire an artist?).

We need to hire an artist for at least 3 turns to get the border pop. After that ... well, I don't know. Start building culture buildings, maybe? It would be nice to pop a Great Artist for a culture bomb. I had Philly working on that, but I guess that Scythian can, as well.

Diplomatic idea of the Day: If you have the highest population, go for Mass Media, and then trade it to someone you're not in good relations with (and not many people like) and let them build the UN.

Hopefully, by the time we research Mass Media, the AI are so far behind us in techs that it won't matter!

 

[ChrTh]

To me, the only reason we research Banking is to get the free Great Merchant that comes with Economics

Not happening. Mansa has Free Market.

I'm not sure I like this idea. I think it is OK to pillage strategic resources (iron, horses, etc.), but I would think we would want to keep the food resources so the cities do not starve. Definitely, though, absolutely NO pillaging of cottages! We want these captured cities to be able to pay their own way once they come out of revolt.

I did not know how long it would take to get to Santiago. My thought was to slow its growth to reduce the amount of whipping that could be done.

We need to hire an artist for at least 3 turns to get the border pop. After that ... well, I don't know. Start building culture buildings, maybe? It would be nice to pop a Great Artist for a culture bomb. I had Philly working on that, but I guess that Scythian can, as well.

Scythian has already popped once, so it'll take longer to get the second pop. That's why I started Theatre there.

 

[ChrTh]

As for city sites: Scythia and Santiago were too strategic to raze (plus Santiago was the Christian holy city). Murcia is a great city site, should be a good city long term. Seville is on the way to Madrid, and I believe they're both holy cities. Salamanca is probably a raze candidate.

 

[Bede]

Knew I forgot something, got it and playiung tonight.

 

[Methos]

Sorry guys, but this week has been extremely hectic for me. Have barely been able to keep up with discussions, let alone take part in them. Add to the hectic week is the fact I’ll be gone all weekend long. I’ve leaving Friday (April 7th) and getting back on Sunday (April 9th). Please skip me until than. Absolutely no internet access (I’ll be caving this weekend).

Thanks,
Methos