CTIV-7: King George the First

[Conroe]

I downloaded the save and took a look at our relations to see if I could gleam anything from the data.

Here is what everybody (except Monty) thinks of us:

Here is what everybody thinks about Mao:

One of the first things that I note is that Khan has a higher relations with us (+5) than with Mao (+4), but yet he voted Mao to be SecGen. Not sure what gives with this ...

The other thing that glares out at me is the number of Traded with Worst Enemy hits that we are taking. I'm not sure what happened here because I thought we were keeping a close eye on all of that. Unfortunately, it is water under the bridge and there is nothing we can do about it now.

How about this: We know Mansa and Cyrus love each other, how about working on them? Cancel all deals with Kublai and Mao (and heck if they end up declaring war, we'll just need to be sure we can take 'em). Revolt to Representation, and Pacifism first, and then next turn convert to Islam. After 5 turns revolt to Free Markets as well (or get it via the UN?)

Not sure how good this idea is ... anyone have something better?

I think you have a good plan. Why not convert to Islam first? Khan and Cyrus are running Free Religion so we won't get dinged. And, we've got an 8 point buffer with Mao; hopefully that will be enough to keep him from declaring on us.

Then, next turn switch all 3 civics at once. I'm not sure why you are proposing to revolt to Free Market seperately from Representation and Pacifism. All at once will be a 2 turn anarchy, but it will still be 2 turns regardless. I'm slightly confused on this point.

Basically, though, CT's plan is solid.

 

[ChrTh]

Why not convert to Islam first?

You can't convert to a religion if you're running Free Religion. You have to convert to a different religious civic first.

Then, next turn switch all 3 civics at once. I'm not sure why you are proposing to revolt to Free Market seperately from Representation and Pacifism. All at once will be a 2 turn anarchy, but it will still be 2 turns regardless. I'm slightly confused on this point.

I typically don't like 2 turn revolts

 

[ChrTh]

I need to do an emergency Out of Pocket

Any game that I'm in that wants to upgrade to 1.61 can do so, I'll patch up when I return (hopefully Monday, maybe not until Friday next week)

 

[Scowler]

Any game that I'm in that wants to upgrade to 1.61 can do so, I'll patch up when I return (hopefully Monday, maybe not until Friday next week)

Okay. I already had to patch for another SG so, assuming nobody else objects, I'll be playing my turn in 1.61 (please state in the next few hours if you want to stay at 1.52).

 

[Maquis]

Just a confirmation, I am fine with patching, I'm ready for 1.61 once Scowler is done.

So, we want to take bets that it won't get past Scowler and myself? I know somone (Bede?) predicted that we would be able to end it...

 

[ChrTh]

So, we want to take bets that it won't get past Scowler and myself? I know somone (Bede?) predicted that we would be able to end it...

I'm betting it will get around to Methos again.

 

[Methos]

I'm betting it will get around to Methos again.

Really? You believe we'll have trouble getting the vote? The next vote should come up within the next turn or so. Granted, I believe it has been discussed switching civics via UN prior to going for the Diplo win.

One thing, I believe (may be mistaken) that when you force civics changes via the UN vote there is no anarchy. We could force one of our changes and take the one turn anarchy by normal method.

 

[Methos]

Do we want to patch this close to the end? I recall Represenation is affected, but I'm not sure what else. I hate to have too many modifiers in a game when we're paying such close attention to the fine details. It may be best to finish this game with 1.52 so we don't accidently throw a wrench into our plans.

Can't remember what relations stuff was changed due to the patch. And I hate to find out the hard way.

 

[ChrTh]

Really? You believe we'll have trouble getting the vote? The next vote should come up within the next turn or so. Granted, I believe it has been discussed switching civics via UN prior to going for the Diplo win.

One thing, I believe (may be mistaken) that when you force civics changes via the UN vote there is no anarchy. We could force one of our changes and take the one turn anarchy by normal method.

I believe that even after making the Civics/Religions changes, it's going to take time to build up the new modifiers (for favorite Civic/Religion) and bring down the old negative modifiers (trading with worst enemy). That's why I think it's going to last at least another full rotation.

UN changes to Civics happen without anarchy. However, I do not believe either Representation or Free Markets are a UN Civic choice (iirc there's an Open Markets, but that's not the same as the Civic)

 

[Scowler]

Do we want to patch this close to the end? I recall Represenation is affected, but I'm not sure what else. I hate to have too many modifiers in a game when we're paying such close attention to the fine details. It may be best to finish this game with 1.52 so we don't accidently throw a wrench into our plans.

Can't remember what relations stuff was changed due to the patch. And I hate to find out the hard way.

I don't mind either way, and that certainly seems reasonable, but please decide fairly quickly. I'm not willing (and don't have the time anyway) to mess around with a dual install of Civ just for one round, so if you decide to go with 1.52 I'll take a skip and the next person in line (Maquis?) can play.

 

[ChrTh]

I'd rather the game keep moving and take the risk of the patch effects rather than it grind to a halt.

 

[Maquis]

If that means I am up, I can play tomorrow, and I can play in 1.52 (I have dual setup working)

 

[Maquis]

OK, nothing really important to report on my turns. Right now we are FAR away from winning.

For some reason, screenshots did not take. (I think it has to do with my dual-config with 1.61 and 1.52)

Our own votes are the only ones we get. Cyrus abstains, and Khan actually votes for Mao

I am not sure how we can swing the votes our way... I have revolted to Representation, which gave us a +1 with Cyrus. The big thing that is nagging him is the -4 "traded with worst enemy"... and he claims his worst enemy is Khan! Not sure how we can get rid of that one...

We need to figure out how to get Khan out of Mao's bed (that's a disturbing image!) and how to boost relations with Cyrus. Maybe we can get Cyrus to declare on Monty or Mao, and then Khan wouldn't be his worst enemy?

This is going to be a tough nut to crack...

 

[ChrTh]

Our own votes are the only ones we get. Cyrus abstains, and Khan actually votes for Mao

I am not sure how we can swing the votes our way... I have revolted to Representation, which gave us a +1 with Cyrus. The big thing that is nagging him is the -4 "traded with worst enemy"... and he claims his worst enemy is Khan! Not sure how we can get rid of that one...

We need to figure out how to get Khan out of Mao's bed (that's a disturbing image!) and how to boost relations with Cyrus. Maybe we can get Cyrus to declare on Monty or Mao, and then Khan wouldn't be his worst enemy?

This is going to be a tough nut to crack...

The Representation bonus will grow over time with Cyrus; did we cancel all deals with Khan? If so, the penalty will decrease with time as well.

If we don't need Khan's votes, then we shouldn't worry about him voting for Mao because the two can't win by themselves.

 

[ChrTh]

I'm guessing either Scowler (if we go 1.61) or Conroe is up (if we stay 1.52)

 

[Conroe]

I'm guessing either Scowler (if we go 1.61) or Conroe is up (if we stay 1.52)

I really don't have a preference whether we upgrade it or not. I guess it is your call, CT, since it is your name on post #1

 

[ChrTh]

I really don't have a preference whether we upgrade it or not. I guess it is your call, CT, since it is your name on post #1

Well, let's give Scowler 24 to get it, and if he gets it, we're on 1.61, otherwise Conroe keep it at 1.52. While I'd prefer to keep it at 1.52, it's just too hard at this point with most of the games shifting.

 

[Methos]

Well, let's give Scowler 24 to get it, and if he gets it, we're on 1.61, otherwise Conroe keep it at 1.52. While I'd prefer to keep it at 1.52, it's just too hard at this point with most of the games shifting.

It's no problem for me either way. I've got it dual loaded. I'm curious if we'll have any glitches like we did when we converted previously, from 1 to 1.09, and 1.09 to 1.52. That's one reason I hesitate to upgrade, especially since this one is almost complete.

I'll go either way the group chooses.

 

[Scowler]

Well, I have some free time so unless Conroe has any objections to patching you can consider this an official "got it".

 

[Scowler]

Turn 0 (1840 AD)
Cyrus is Pleased (+7) with us, but Khan is now Cautious (+3). Since Khan has always preferred Mao to us this shouldn't be too disturbing; we just need to make sure he isn't tempted to declare war on us (we have the lowest power rating aside from Montezuma, whereas Khan's is climbing at an alarming rate).

Refrigeration is due in 1. Turning science down to 30% for 1 turn will give us 1111g.

Seattle is a dunghill so the Bank is switched to a Grocer.

The mines around NY need to be switched to windmills in order to allow the city to grow that little bit extra. Fortunately, we have a clutch of workers ready and waiting nearby who can do most of the work in a single turn.

IBT:
Boston finishes: Aqueduct
Los Angeles grows: 15
Santiago finishes: Rifleman
Seville finishes: Market
Barcelona finishes: Market
Cordoba finishes: Observatory
Mansa adopts Free Speech and Free Religion
Khan completes the Kremlin.

Turn 1 (1842 AD)
Science back up to 90%: Assembly Line is now due in 3. Since we are not likely to win any time soon we should think about building up our military, partly to dissuade any expansionist neighbours, and partly in case we want to grab those extra votes through conquest.

I can't see the point in keeping DC on Wealth at the moment, as we seem to be making enough money already. I'd rather put those hammers to good use, so I set up Oxford University (due in 12). Some further micromanagement and railroading of mills and mines brings the build time down a few turns more.

Boston begins: The Eiffel Tower
Cordoba begins: Machine Gun
Barcelona begins: Machine Gun
Seville begins: Grocer
Santiago begins: Hospital

IBT:
Atlanta finishes: Rifleman
Gepid grows: 21
Cordoba grows: 13

Turn 2 (1844 AD)
Atlanta begins: Machine Gun

IBT:
New York grows: 15

Turn 3 (1846 AD)
Time to choose a new Secretary General. We have 278 votes; 290 are needed to win. Now who shall I choose?

IBT:
Murcia grows: 16
Salamanca grows: 14
Salamanca's borders expand

Turn 4 (1848 AD)
We are re-elected:

Research begun: Industrialism

I do some trading with Cyrus:

IBT:
New York finishes: Grocer
San Francisco grows: 11
Seville finishes: Grocer
Cordoba grows: 14
Cordoba's borders expand
Khan adopts Free Speech

Turn 5 (1850 AD)
Cyrus now has Rocketry: we could find ourselves in a space race soon.
New York begins: Factory
Seville begins: Artillery
Gepid begins: Hospital

IBT:
Atlanta grows: 20
Seville grows: 18

Turn 6 (1852 AD)
Cyrus has just finished a golden age. Guess that explains how he became so advanced.

IBT:
Boston grows: 20
Chicago grows: 17
Barcelona grows: 12
Barcelona finishes: Machine Gun

Turn 7 (1854 AD)
Time to choose a Resolution to vote on. Might as well go for a diplo win once more, just to see how things have changed.
Barcelona begins: University

IBT:
Murcia finishes: Grocer
Salamanca grows: 15
Salamanca finishes: Infantry

Turn 8 (1856 AD)
The results are in:

Nice of Cyrus to vote for us this time. Now all we need are Mansa's votes as well and we should have no trouble...

In other news, Khan has cancelled the ivory for pigs deal we had with him. The loss of happy causes slight problems in a couple of cities, but nothing major. He now has Rocketry as well; Mao has Plastics.

Research begun: Rocketry
Murcia begins: Factory
Salamanca begins: Colosseum

IBT:
Washington finishes: Oxford University
Philadelphia finishes: University
Seville finishes: Artillery
Cordoba grows: 15
Cordoba finishes: Machine Gun

Turn 9 (1858 AD)
Washington begins: Factory
Philadelphia begins: Grocer
Seville begins: Factory
Cordoba begins: Grocer

IBT:
Chicago finishes: Infantry
Los Angeles grows: 16

Turn 10 (1860 AD)
Chicago begins: Factory

In this last turn Cyrus has gone up to Friendly: he's now at +10 with us.

Mansa is willing to trade either Hit Singles or 11gpt in exchange for our bananas or rice. I didn't go for this as I wasn't certain what impact this might have on the health (and therefore growth) of our cities - ditto if a happy resource was offered instead. Also, I'm not sure it would make sufficient difference to our relations at this stage, bearing in mind that Mansa is Cautious rather than Pleased. But of course I could be completely wrong...

I tried to lay the groundwork for a build-up of military and infrastructure in case of either war or a space race. I upgraded a couple of units; there is plenty of cash available to improve a few more.

Eiffel Tower is due next turn, which should alleviate some of the cultural pressure on the cities near Madrid (I've been using artist specialists where possible to help out).

Rocketry is also due next turn, so our Apollo shouldn't be too far behind those of our opponents.