Current (SVN) development discussion thread

That being said, I hope you're not aware of the context of my quote in your post. Because if you are, I would be rather offended to be compared to someone who stumbles into this subforum every couple of months, treats everyone as her servants to whose help she is entitled, and then proceeds to spit into the face of everyone actually stupid enough to help her because she is actually too lazy to make use of the help she has been given.

What I recall is me asking you to help fix my scenario, you agreeing and asking for details, and then raising your middle finger when I gave you the actual scenario to look at after leading me on for weeks. You then justified yourself by arguing that you weren't there to mod for other people.

Let's look at your thread. Questions, necessarily, are going to require a recommendation for improvement as an answer. Ergo, it is necessarily going to rectify something the modder is doing wrong. So, after asking you just how to add a settler to a spawn, and you giving me this nonsense that couldn't be even slightly comprehensible to anyone who wasn't already familiar with Python, it seems you drew the line at actually showing me where and how to make the actual change. Which, incidentally, would also show how me alter the composition of any spawn.

Could you provide an example of a question that fits within your ill-defined parameters? Or of a question that would have required you to muster up more than two minutes of effort?

(That being said, I love it when people I've known for years on this forum actually believe I'm female.)
 
It's very hard to mod without knowing some Python, I would look in the Modiki for some guides to basic Python programming. Trust me, modding got a lot easier after a few months of Python class. I can understand Leoreth because it is kind of unfair for him to be expected to help someone with no knowledge of Python and seemingly (I'm trying not to judge you) very little motivation to learn the actual language.

Also, did you see what advice I posted in the Modmodding Q and A thread? That might be helpful.
 
No, I'm sorry, but it hasn't. I have made an entire thread dedicated to discussing it and participated extensively in it. I have replied to most posts that made original points I haven't addressed yet. I have asked for data and demonstrations of problematic aspects for which I have only received vague worries and anecdotal support. I gladly repeat that request even though it is still standing anyway.

I have said time and again that I can't change a game system based on individual opinions. You don't like the system and that is your right, but the more you only express your dislike but don't supply me with objective data that allows me to verify your qualms, the more I feel inclined to disregard your complaints as a subjective opinion. I'm entirely open to be proven wrong, but for that I do need data.

I know you're not that active here anymore so you might have missed it, but a couple of weeks ago we were talking about the expansion stability of civs with a small core, and someone uploaded a save where they had a roughly historical Dutch empire and a rather negative expansion score with the comment that that could not be right. And in that case I was actually able to verify this, because I had the save, and it turns out that his observation was true! I could immediately address the problem by tweaking some of the parameters influencing the expansion score.

I hope that illustrates the difference of constructive and unconstructive criticism. By which I don't mean that criticism that is unconstructive in that regard is invalid or ignored, just that it doesn't actually help me to address it in any way.


That being said, I hope you're not aware of the context of my quote in your post. Because if you are, I would be rather offended to be compared to someone who stumbles into this subforum every couple of months, treats everyone as her servants to whose help she is entitled, and then proceeds to spit into the face of everyone actually stupid enough to help her because she is actually too lazy to make use of the help she has been given.

Thank you for the answer, when I have more time, I'll try to find some data for you for sure. I've been lurking here, but just haven't posted that much.

Oh, and I wasn't taking about this particular case. I know that it is frustrating that people complain a lot (me included ;)) and ask the same questions. Anyways, I for one really appreciate the effort you are putting into this mod continiously. :goodjob:
 
You came to me wanting to do your work for you. Which I won't. That you think the amount of work I would have to do for you matters in any way just shows how entitled you are.

(That being said, I love it when people I've known for years on this forum actually believe I'm female.)
I have supported the gender feature as a means for people to express their preferred gender and the pronouns with which they wish to be referred to. I know people who've changed their preferred pronouns while I already knew them. Therefore I have decided to refer to people with pronouns according to the gender they have listed there. Because nothing is more offensive than asking a trans person if it is their "real" gender.
 
Catching up on posts I've missed, had to leave for a while before finishing the other one
Well, 't could be because you keep b!tching, nagging and whining... :dunno:
Definitely not. I just think it's polite to take people at face value when they tell me their gender.

It's very hard to mod without knowing some Python, I would look in the Modiki for some guides to basic Python programming. Trust me, modding got a lot easier after a few months of Python class. I can understand Leoreth because it is kind of unfair for him to be expected to help someone with no knowledge of Python and seemingly (I'm trying not to judge you) very little motivation to learn the actual language.

Also, did you see what advice I posted in the Modmodding Q and A thread? That might be helpful.
If someone wants to mod Python code, doesn't know Python and has gone on record of not wanting to learn Python, I cannot help them.

Thank you for the answer, when I have more time, I'll try to find some data for you for sure. I've been lurking here, but just haven't posted that much.

Oh, and I wasn't taking about this particular case. I know that it is frustrating that people complain a lot (me included ;)) and ask the same questions. Anyways, I for one really appreciate the effort you are putting into this mod continiously. :goodjob:
Thanks, I'm happy to hear that you're not as frustrated as you first seemed. Let's take this to the stability threads :)
 
We need to make a mental stability thread
 
No need, I'm constantly on collapsing.
 
Well, 't could be because you keep b!tching, nagging and whining... :dunno:

Please. That's pretty sexist. I'd prefer not to see this type of comment in the future.

You came to me wanting to do your work for you. Which I won't. That you think the amount of work I would have to do for you matters in any way just shows how entitled you are.

I'm quoting Leoreth I don't know why, but it's just to preface my paragraph, since it gives a little insight on how much work modding the mod is normally.

Apart from the modding, as a contributor, I raise my eyebrows whenever you've (Mouthwash) suggested a rebalancing or
tweak to the mod when you are either playing on an obsoleted version, one scenario made with your WB changes or on non-standard settings (anything not Monarch+Normal).
I would give you the benefit of the doubt for any changes you'd like to see based on play on the current version if you would test alongside the rest of us.
This modmod has always been an Open Beta of sorts and nearly every single one of us who play this mod with a few exceptions such as Jusos & Lone Wolf who play or have played older versions with
the tacit understanding that things they would want to change in the unsupported version wouldn't be changed in a version they weren't going to play; just about all of us understand this.
And you've expected Leoreth to make changes to a version of the mod that you weren't going to play anyway in the past, at least until recently when you stated you updated to the SVN version.
Apart from that, there have been past instances where you've refused to provide evidence or empirical data for your concerns with screenshots and saves which is kind of mind-boggling.
And this, I certainly don't think is a subforum where anyone just takes something at face value. The burden of proof rests on those making the assertions
and the proof must come in the form of tangible evidence or cited sources.

I'm just pointing out these inconsistencies.
Since you don't appear to know Python, why not playtest and influence the design of the mod by offering suggestions based on evidence? This is all I'm suggesting.

I have supported the gender feature as a means for people to express their preferred gender and the pronouns with which they wish to be referred to. I know people who've changed their preferred pronouns while I already knew them. Therefore I have decided to refer to people with pronouns according to the gender they have listed there. Because nothing is more offensive than asking a trans person if it is their "real" gender.

For the record, Mouthwash and I had a little public conversation on my Wall/Visitor Page where we both readily identified as cis male.
So I'm fairly certain that Mouthwash is just toying with the new gender feature. That being said, I absolutely agree.
Outing trans people and asking them what their "real" gender is is highly caustic and damaging.
 
Sorry to interrupt, but what do you think of the other Baba Yetu arrangements, Leoreth?

Y u no respond Leoret???

I think I'm letting Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal get to my head, and I understand that putting up with certain complaints can be annoying, but what do you think? Will you replace the current somewhat lackluster Baba Yetu arrangement with one of those?
 
For the record, Mouthwash and I had a little public conversation on my Wall/Visitor Page where we both readily identified as cis male.
So I'm fairly certain that Mouthwash is just toying with the new gender feature. That being said, I absolutely agree.
Outing trans people and asking them what their "real" gender is is highly caustic and damaging.
For the record, I don't think the concept of "real gender" even makes sense.

The whole displaying the wrong gender on purpose just to chuckle at people who get it wrong also reminds me of this
Spoiler :
words_that_end_in_gry.png

and it really does a disservice to everyone of female gender who has it hard enough to get treated with respect in a video gaming community.

Y u no respond Leoret???

I think I'm letting Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal get to my head, and I understand that putting up with certain complaints can be annoying, but what do you think? Will you replace the current somewhat lackluster Baba Yetu arrangement with one of those?
Haven't listened to the Calling All Dawn version now but I know it, wasn't impressed the other arrangement so I guess I still prefer the original one. I just think that it has the best or rather most compact dramatic structure which makes it most suitable as background music for the main menu.
 
You came to me wanting to do your work for you. Which I won't. That you think the amount of work I would have to do for you matters in any way just shows how entitled you are.

1. Refuses to give advice unless the fault it proposes to fix can be shown to meet specific criteria to his satisfaction.

2. Refuses to explain that he has such criteria until other users begin to drag on him for the same reasons.

3. Thinks his refusal to help is doing anyone else a favor.

You're right. It's clearly my selfish entitlement that's the problem here.

There seems to be a very, very fine line between "doing someone's work for them" and giving them advice, if that thread was any indication. But the proper response isn't sticking out your tongue at people.

I have supported the gender feature as a means for people to express their preferred gender and the pronouns with which they wish to be referred to. I know people who've changed their preferred pronouns while I already knew them. Therefore I have decided to refer to people with pronouns according to the gender they have listed there. Because nothing is more offensive than asking a trans person if it is their "real" gender.

There's no better way to show off your moral superiority than by avoiding offensive terms while calling me entitled and lazy.
 
I don't think you get our disagreement.
 
There seems to be a very, very fine line between "doing someone's work for them" and giving them advice, if that thread was any indication.
If that thread was any indication, it was obvious to anyone but you.

There's no better way to show off your moral superiority than by avoiding offensive terms while calling me entitled and lazy.
Yeah, that makes sense, just because I think you're a selfish jerk with no interpersonal skills I also have to offend you by disrespecting your gender.

I don't think you get our disagreement.
I've read Ben's post, he's right on.

This is my last post on this pointless ordeal in this thread, and I'd like to ask everyone to also not derail the thread with it anymore.
 
Haven't listened to the Calling All Dawn version now but I know it, wasn't impressed the other arrangement so I guess I still prefer the original one. I just think that it has the best or rather most compact dramatic structure which makes it most suitable as background music for the main menu.

I guess I see what you're saying about the compact part and why the VGL music doesn't work, but I really feel like the Calling all Dawns version is much more evocative than the original version. I hope you listen to it soon. :)
 
Now I did listen to the Calling All Dawns version and don't know what I was thinking. It clearly is better.

The copyright issue remains, however.
 
Now I did listen to the Calling All Dawns version and don't know what I was thinking. It clearly is better.

The copyright issue remains, however.

Achievement Unlocked: Convince Leoreth to do something.

The copyright issue is unfortunate, but given that the mod currently uses a copyrighted painting and that a different arrangement of Baba Yetu is the currently used soundtrack, I think it will be fine for now. It's not like you're selling it or anything.
 
Achievement Unlocked: Convince Leoreth to do something.

The copyright issue is unfortunate, but given that the mod currently uses a copyrighted painting and that a different arrangement of Baba Yetu is the currently used soundtrack, I think it will be fine for now. It's not like you're selling it or anything.

I think the idea was that the copyrighted material was going to be replaced, so I don't think we want to add more material. There was a thread where TD suggested we remove the intro screen because of the copyright, and most people seemed to agree. While it is true Leoreth doesn't really gain any benefit from making this mod, we still shouldn't be using artistic material without the owner's permission.

In short, I think we should stick to the public domain.
 
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