Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[The Southerner]

That's the point, I don't want to settle on resources, but that whale leaves me no other choice. It really messes with my OCD.

Yeah, I've got real problems with this kind of thing too - I can't even look at Funchal.

 

[citis]

(On that note, maybe resources really should be moved or removed. They don't need 2 cows or the deer resource, if food is lacking in London more seafood is certainly preferable. They also don't really need stone and the horses could convincingly be moved to Ireland. Medieval England didn't rely that much on cavalry compared to say France and it would give more of an incentive to conquer Ireland.)

Yes. Remove resources from England, they always build the british empire, they don't need these resources in their homeland.

Well, I still want to see the city yield coming back. Penalising cities isn't right.

 

[Leoreth]

A question about feasibility (to Leoreth or anyone who has knowledge of the c++ code) : would it be possible to make so that a city centre tile is a tile like any other, which can be improved and can be worked, hence making so that you can have 21 citizens working tiles in a city compared to the actual 20 ?

If this is possible, then you could have a flat bonus of 2 food/1 hammer/1 commerce for each city on top of the possibility to work the centre tile of a city, making the centre tile one like any other, workable but not worked automatically.

If not, then forget about all this please

I don't think that would be possible, but it's an idea to keep in mind.

Have you ever been wrong, but something prevented you to accept that? By talking to others and not to you I am lobbying public opinion to lobby you for the years to come. You are only human, after all, and will eventually succumb to mounting pressure

If I am wrong, I'm usually convinced of that by new arguments, not repetition and "pressure".

That's the point, I don't want to settle on resources, but that whale leaves me no other choice. It really messes with my OCD.

Sound like something you need to get over.

Well, I still want to see the city yield coming back. Penalising cities isn't right.

It doesn't penalize cities.

 

[citis]

It doesn't penalize cities.

It does. A city found on iron is penalised compared to a city found next to iron.

 

[Leoreth]

You will find out that both cities will have the same yield. In fact, the city founded on iron will have additional production!

 

[ales_]

I'm not for Venice as a civ but I think that probably it should be represented better within the Italy civ.

 

[Leoreth]

Actually I was considering a Genoan UU recently

I consider Venice reflected in the Italian culture goals, and we have San Marco Basilica. If you want their military exploits represented, I think that goes against their focus as a builder oriented civ. There are enough conquest goals out there.

 

[ezzlar]

Would Venetian Merchants corp fit the mod? And maybe the SoI Venetian Quarter building? Genoan could be added as well. Of course these were spread in a smaller area than the Silk route for example. But it would make cities like Jerusalem and Constantinopel more important during a certain period of time.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I think that Italy should flip Spalatum/Laibach. There also should be a way for it to gain a city on Crete.

 

[Tigranes]

How did Venice even made it into this debate? Do they have this saying in Germany: one does not cry over the lost hair when the head has been decapitated?

It is so frustrating when two or more reasonable men cannot agree on something as simple as having more tiles available for cities and cottages/workshops.

 

[Leoreth]

How did Venice even made it into this debate? Do they have this saying in Germany: one does not cry over the lost hair when the head has been decapitated?

I'm talking about Venice because it's a new subject that has been brought up. Emphasis on new. This isn't the "discuss city tile yields until Tigranes gets what he wants" thread, so everyone is free to move on to whatever they want.

It is so frustrating when two or more reasonable men cannot agree on something as simple as having more tiles available for cities and cottages/workshops.

People have different opinions, I suggest you get used to it.

 

[agentxorange]

I think that Italy should flip Spalatum/Laibach. There also should be a way for it to gain a city on Crete.

Problem is that Venice doesn't (historically) gain control of Croatia until the 15th century, long after the Italian spawn. As for Crete, there isn't usually a city there so flipping wouldn't work. A settler spawning would also be difficult, because of the proximity of Corinth/Athens. All in all, Italy is already very well designed. It's UB is really good, its goals are very clear and accurate, and it represents an area otherwise represented by unhistorical civilization (France/HRE in the Renaissance).

As a more general topic for development, Europe is packed already. Considering more civilizations for the area would be problematic and interfere with the existing civilizations. Leoreth has already has already switched to working on some other cool mechanics like the new culture mechanics, or fixing existing ones. That's probably more pressing than adding Venice/Genoa/Celts.

 

[ozqar]

Are India and the Mughals respawning in 1947 as India and Pakistan (w/ Bangladesh)? Do they start at war and hate each other? If I remember correctly, India does respawn, so I'm actually asking more about Pakistan.

Also, I started a Mexico game and it makes me sort of uncomfortable to see Cancún there in 1810. A better name for the city would be Mérida; Cancún wasn't founded until the 1970s, while Mérida has been the political center of Yucatán since the XVI Century. Also, Mérida was built over an ancient Mayan city and is closer to Chichén Itzá than Cancún is.

 

[Leoreth]

Are India and the Mughals respawning in 1947 as India and Pakistan (w/ Bangladesh)? Do they start at war and hate each other? If I remember correctly, India does respawn, so I'm actually asking more about Pakistan.

They don't have a scripted respawn, if that's what you're asking. Both can respawn under the usual rules if the civ controlling their territory is unstable or collapses.

The Mughal respawn will take place only in modern Pakistan to have roughly accurate borders.

Also, I started a Mexico game and it makes me sort of uncomfortable to see Cancún there in 1810. A better name for the city would be Mérida; Cancún wasn't founded until the 1970s, while Mérida has been the political center of Yucatán since the XVI Century. Also, Mérida was built over an ancient Mayan city and is closer to Chichén Itzá than Cancún is.

Good point.

 

[The Diocletian]

When Free Market says "+25% Corporation Commerce", what does that mean? Corps that give gold give +25%, corp yields in general are increased +25%, corps spread +25% faster, something else?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Actually I was considering a Genoan UU recently

NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Venice was much more important historically.

I consider Venice reflected in the Italian culture goals, and we have San Marco Basilica. If you want their military exploits represented, I think that goes against their focus as a builder oriented civ. There are enough conquest goals out there.

Eh, I see what you're saying, but a Venetian Merchants corporation wouldn't be a half bad idea, as that would actually add some interest to Eastern Mediterranean gameplay and diplomacy.

I think that once/if civ slots are removed from actual civilizations, I could see a bunch of alt-hist/"minor" civs being added as extras (with the option of disabling them) to provide some added alt-hist potential/conditional civs without slowing down the game too much.

 

[Leoreth]

When Free Market says "+25% Corporation Commerce", what does that mean? Corps that give gold give +25%, corp yields in general are increased +25%, corps spread +25% faster, something else?

In game terms, yield = everything produced on a tile (food, production, commerce) and commerce = everything converted from commerce (gold, science, culture, espionage). So Free Market increases output of everything in the latter group by 25%.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Venice was much more important historically.

I agree. It's not about representation, and more about how Balestrieri are more useful than say a Galleass.

I think that once/if civ slots are removed from actual civilizations, I could see a bunch of alt-hist/"minor" civs being added as extras (with the option of disabling them) to provide some added alt-hist potential/conditional civs without slowing down the game too much.

That's one of the reasons why I want to do it, but even then there is quite the list ahead of Venice.

 

[Shadow Merc]

You may use some improvement yields, but depending on the resource it's not even that much, and you free up another tile to put a town on, for example. Interestingly it's just been mentioned that there is not enough space on Britain for cottages.

Does England really need cottages though? They already have a high tech rate and regularly become tech leader if they establish their empire. Adding cottages that eventually build in to towns will only boost them even more I think. If resources get moved around in Britain, my main concern would be making sure they're still productive enough to expand quickly enough to get the colonization goal, and maybe to build their wonders.

All in all, Italy is already very well designed. It's UB is really good, its goals are very clear and accurate, and it represents an area otherwise represented by unhistorical civilization (France/HRE in the Renaissance).

The one think I dislike about Italy is the space between the 2nd and 3rd goal. The way Italy is set up in the mod, i feel it represents the city states more than the unified country it becomes later. All they really have tying them to modern italy is their UU and the 60% goal.

That, and the last goal is somewhat difficult as you will undoubtedly have to fight Turkey, which will always be producing troops faster than you can and will usually be ahead in tech as well. In the couple games I've played as Italy, Turkey ends up Dowing me and sending a huge SOD towards Venice, meaning I have to quickly summon an army to try and hold off the Turkish Horde.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- fixed premature expiration of the Colombian UHV
- Canada now does not flip Labrador and Newfoundland as intended

 

[Hightower]

Problem is that Venice doesn't (historically) gain control of Croatia until the 15th century, long after the Italian spawn.

That's just false. Venice ruled Split/Spalato from 1084, when the Byzantines ceded the city, with only brief Hungarian interludes. Zadar/Zara was ruled on-and-off from the 11th century onwards. Dubrovnik/Ragusa was ruled by Venice from 1205 to 1358. Durres/Dyrrhachium (not quite Croatian but same general area) was also occupied intermittently by the Venetians

Agree that flipping Crete doesn't work.