Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[FinalLegendZero]

Whole mess of red domes where marsh & islands should be--is this the end of VD/ECS compatibility?

VD/ECS isn't the problem; the SVN itself is. Even after switching to a backup that has neither VD/ECS nor BlueMarble, all the new additions still manifest as red domes.

 

[trevor]

Good to hear?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes - I forgot to add a bunch of art files that weren't under version control. New commit should fix the issue.

By the way, I only added the island feature in some places that were immediately obvious to me. If you think something is missing, suggest it here.

 

[Fresol]

New commit: WARNING: This revision will break savegame compatibility.
- reduced food yield from Ocean tiles by 1
- fishing boats on Ocean require Compass
- fishing boats on Ocean produce +1 food
- increased food from whale by +1
- replaced Coast tiles across the map with Ocean
- reduced the size of the Falklands
- units only receive double movement on Ocean when they are able to enter Ocean tiles
- new terrain feature: Island (+1 production on water tiles)
- new resource: Pearls (+1 happiness, expires with Plastics)
- Pearls contribute to Luxury Industry
- Pearls added in the East China Sea, near Tamil Nadu, the Persian Gulf and the Venezuelan coast
- replaced Marsh graphics so that they will not appear in the resource map mode anymore
- resources in the second ring of a city are prioritized during border expansions

Haha, glad to see the ocean tile suggestion being adopted.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

New commit does fix the issue, and doesn't break compatibility with VD/ECS.

 

[Sgt. Bears]

Some Islands that I think you missed.
Aegean Sea, all the Greek islands. (x=68,y=43 - x=68,y=41, - x=69,y=41, - x=69,y=40)
1 West of the Azores, Azores are as long as the canaries. (x=43,y=43)
1 South West of Adelaide, kangaroo Island. (x=112,y=11)
A layer of islands on the tail-end of Argentina.
West of the Falklands, South Georgia Islands. (x=43,y=4)
North East of Scotland, Orkney Islands. (x=53,y=61)
Reunion. (x=81,y=15)

 

[Leoreth]

Haha, glad to see the ocean tile suggestion being adopted.

Not sure if people believe me when I say these things, but that's once again one of the situations where someone suggested something that I had long planned already. Reducing Ocean food has been among the things from 1.12 that didn't make the cut before release, and that's because I also wanted to make all the other changes that are related to it.

(That's another reason why I don't comment on suggestions - sometimes it's because they are in the works already.)

New commit does fix the issue, and doesn't break compatibility with VD/ECS.

Yeah, never claimed that would be the case.

Some Islands that I think you missed.
Aegean Sea, all the Greek islands. (x=68,y=43 - x=68,y=41, - x=69,y=41, - x=69,y=40)
1 West of the Azores, Azores are as long as the canaries. (x=43,y=43)
1 South West of Adelaide, kangaroo Island. (x=112,y=11)
A layer of islands on the tail-end of Argentina.
West of the Falklands, South Georgia Islands. (x=43,y=4)
North East of Scotland, Orkney Islands. (x=53,y=61)
Reunion. (x=81,y=15)

I don't want to go overboard but some of them appear sensible.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

Shadow Merc here, i just happen to be one of the victims of the recent account bug. Anyways...

Report about Canada. (SVN 820)

Overall:
The infrastructure is very bad. You can't keep up with the others with techs. You simply don't have enough commerce. This makes the 3rd UHV quite difficult. Usually, you can get a peacedeal by trading a tech. But if you don't have any tech to trade because of the bad infrastructure, you can only get peacedeals by trading gold. But again the infrastructure is quite bad, which means your income is quite bad as well. Making that option not very effective as well.
\

I wanna say that America has this problem too, being a late civ. Usually it takes me until around 1850 just to research one or two industrial era techs, and by then England or someone else will either be in or be close to entering the modern era.

But maybe Canada could spawn with more techs too? They currently spawn without corporation, which everyone has by that point.

Maybe the modifiers need to be adjusted or something else can be changed, but we should find a way to balance the tech race and development for late game civs.

Seems like the tech rate is the most pressing problem. I'm hesitant to increase their modifier though, because that might make them too powerful later in the game.

That's a common problem of many civilizations, for example Turkey, but also England. To make them viable early in the game their modifiers have to be so high that they can take off later on.

Since Canada spawns in 1867 i don't think it matters too much how the late game turns out. But i remember you were also talking about finding a way to have the Ottomans start out strong but then degrade over time. Would it be possible to have the modifiers change for a civ as the game progresses so that we can have some civs decline that should decline while helping other civs rise, unless that is already the case.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't want to go overboard but some of them appear sensible.

Isle of Man and also Kuril islands -- would look very nice with new island feature and will help Japanese Northen city.

Also some island can be replaced with Island feature, like Bering Islands.

Very few places have Pearls, here are some historically significant places:

1. Between Sri Lanka and India-Gulf of Mannar , which produced some of the finest pearls in the known ancient world. There is an another Pearl close by, but it's ok: Tamils (Pandyas) can trade Pearl (as they did) not just have it one for themselves.

2. Red Sea

3. Chinese hunted extensively for seawater pearls in the South China Sea

4. Pearling in Western Australia existed well before European settlement.

5. Tahiti

6. Panama

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Yeah, never claimed that would be the case.

Wasn't trying to imply that you did. I'm just confirming that, as far as I can tell, everything's working now.

 

[Fresol]

Whale now gives a flat +2 food bonus even unimproved. I don't know if this is intended as whales often appear on ocean tiles and there's -1 food nerf on ocean tile. But some of the whales are on coast tiles: e.g. near Ponta Delgada. I suppose it should be "when improved, another +1 food bonus" instead of the current situation?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Hua wa? What was the reasoning for decreasing the food on ocean tiles? Because I for one think that's a stupid idea, and I have thought so since the day I first heard of that suggestion.

 

[merijn_v1]

Some possible locations for islands:

Europe
- I tile west of Ponta Delgada. Represents the Azores and makes Ponta Delgada slightly less crappy. (43, 43)
- Some islands in the Aegean Sea. (69, 41), (69, 42) Not all of them need to be represented IMO. Adding islands to these tiles will do the job IMO.
- Near Hawaii. (4, 36)
- Bahrain and Qatar. (79, 36)
- Kuril Islands (117, 52)
- Reunion and Mauritius (77, 14). IRL, they are a bit more to the east. But this tile makes the accessible.
- Maldives (88, 27) OR (88, 28) and move the island tile 1 south.
- Various locations in Indonesia. (102, 27), (103, 23), (1089, 24), (107, 34), (110, 26), (110, 27)
- Kangaroo Island near Adelaide (112, 11)


Also, how could you forget to add pearl near Pearl Harbor?

 

[ezzlar]

How am I supposed to use slaves? Playing as Ethiopia and running slavery. If I move a slave to an incense tile I get no options to create slave plantation.

 

[Leoreth]

I wanna say that America has this problem too, being a late civ. Usually it takes me until around 1850 just to research one or two industrial era techs, and by then England or someone else will either be in or be close to entering the modern era.

But maybe Canada could spawn with more techs too? They currently spawn without corporation, which everyone has by that point.

Maybe the modifiers need to be adjusted or something else can be changed, but we should find a way to balance the tech race and development for late game civs.

Some additional techs could help, but I think the tech speed of the other civilizations is more of a problem. I plan to address overall tech costs of the later eras soon.

Since Canada spawns in 1867 i don't think it matters too much how the late game turns out. But i remember you were also talking about finding a way to have the Ottomans start out strong but then degrade over time. Would it be possible to have the modifiers change for a civ as the game progresses so that we can have some civs decline that should decline while helping other civs rise, unless that is already the case.

Yeah, that is the only solution I can think of. It's possible to code, but I'd rather handle it as a combination of different constants and that is more difficult to realize.

Another solution is an overall bonus for all recently spawned civilizations that decays over time. I suppose that is something to tackle when I revise the spawn mechanics.

Isle of Man and also Kuril islands -- would look very nice with new island feature and will help Japanese Northen city.

Also some island can be replaced with Island feature, like Bering Islands.

Very few places have Pearls, here are some historically significant places:

1. Between Sri Lanka and India-Gulf of Mannar , which produced some of the finest pearls in the known ancient world. There is an another Pearl close by, but it's ok: Tamils (Pandyas) can trade Pearl (as they did) not just have it one for themselves.

2. Red Sea

3. Chinese hunted extensively for seawater pearls in the South China Sea

4. Pearling in Western Australia existed well before European settlement.

5. Tahiti

6. Panama

Good suggestions - I was intentionally conservative with pearls because they introduce yet another happiness point. But I guess since more sources of unhappiness have been added since then it should remain balanced.

(By the way, I will revise culture unhappiness soon so that it depends on city population, so that new smallish cities aren't crippled by it.)

Whale now gives a flat +2 food bonus even unimproved. I don't know if this is intended as whales often appear on ocean tiles and there's -1 food nerf on ocean tile. But some of the whales are on coast tiles: e.g. near Ponta Delgada. I suppose it should be "when improved, another +1 food bonus" instead of the current situation?

What would change when it is dependent on the improvement? The extra food is indeed intended to cancel out the loss of food on ocean tiles. I changed most whale tiles to Ocean when I redid the map, I think Ponta Delgada is the only whale that is directly adjacent to land and I decided that I don't mind.

Hua wa? What was the reasoning for decreasing the food on ocean tiles? Because I for one think that's a stupid idea, and I have thought so since the day I first heard of that suggestion.

In my opinion it allowed single island cities to grow to unrealistic sizes. Cities that have to rely on water tiles to grow, such as England's, have only coast in their BFC.

Some possible locations for islands:

Europe
- I tile west of Ponta Delgada. Represents the Azores and makes Ponta Delgada slightly less crappy. (43, 43)
- Some islands in the Aegean Sea. (69, 41), (69, 42) Not all of them need to be represented IMO. Adding islands to these tiles will do the job IMO.
- Near Hawaii. (4, 36)
- Bahrain and Qatar. (79, 36)
- Kuril Islands (117, 52)
- Reunion and Mauritius (77, 14). IRL, they are a bit more to the east. But this tile makes the accessible.
- Maldives (88, 27) OR (88, 28) and move the island tile 1 south.
- Various locations in Indonesia. (102, 27), (103, 23), (1089, 24), (107, 34), (110, 26), (110, 27)
- Kangaroo Island near Adelaide (112, 11)

Also, how could you forget to add pearl near Pearl Harbor?

Well, I did not touch the Pacific Ocean at all for one increasingly obvious reason ...

How am I supposed to use slaves? Playing as Ethiopia and running slavery. If I move a slave to an incense tile I get no options to create slave plantation.

You can only use slaves in the Americas. As a sub-Saharan civilization you are supposed to sell your saves who have colonies there.

 

[AdrienIer]

Well, I did not touch the Pacific Ocean at all for one increasingly obvious reason ...

Brace yourselves, Polynesia is coming !

 

[Panopticon]

Well, I did not touch the Pacific Ocean at all for one increasingly obvious reason ...

Texan civ?

 

[Leoreth]

Venice.

 

[BenZL43]

Why not Sealand?

 

[Leoreth]

Because that is an oxymoron.