D+2: "The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."

They move out from the center, and unless they know of a target, tend to try and get on the rough terrain first. I noticed that with the first wave we had.

I usually go for a defensive posture because I want the Barbs to pay for what they did. Literally. I always try to make getting the leader a priority; especially at this level, they give, what, 200 gold?

I also try to play it when I don't have to do any double payments for rushing.

BTW, that's what the numbers in ( ) are in my file; the number of Barbs left from the stack.

I looked at our current situation briefly last night and just went to bed. I couldn't deal with any more. ;)

One good thing now it that the Barbs are spread out, so picking them off may be easier. The bad thing is that we have to protect about 5 cities now, most of which have no protection and no other cities to help out. :(
 
Yeah sorry about my handling of the barb situation -- my first priority went for the camels & wonder -- ended up with about four rushed curcs who've died & and a similar number of bribed units who have also passed away.

I thought that the pikemen would do better-- WRONG. didn't even think of a boat.

My handicaps of being away from home also add like in the way of worthwhile excuses.

I accept the nomination as assistant mole.
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
I accept the nomination as assistant mole.
Click to expand...
No need for unhappiness. If, thanks to this incident, we get some serious action (modern warfare, using nukes etc.) in the 'endgame' I'm happy - as long as we win this game ;).

BTW it seems that instead of one bigtime mole who makes enormous damage over 10 turns as in the last game we now seem to have two 'mini moles' that cause considerable damage but do not bring every city back to the stone age and leave the entire empire unhappy and in a state of revolt :D.
 
Don't worry about it. It's just another challenge.

Keep in mind, there's a lot more cooperation going on in this succession game than some I've played. I remember one a couple years ago where one guy would build a bunch of defenders in all the cities during his turn and the first thing the next player would do was disband them all. It was quite fun to watch.

I would expect some losses, or at least wearing down of the units, but I'm surprised the Pikers are getting annihilated by chariots. A fortified pikeman should defend at 2*1.5*1.5 = 4.5 if he's vet, that's another 1.5x, right? That's a 6.75 defense and it sounds like chariots are taking them out with no problems. The Barb attack bonus must be well over 2 at this level. Or maybe the pikeman bonus isn't working . Who knows. We'll get by.
 
Originally posted by TheViking
If, thanks to this incident, we get some serious action (modern warfare, using nukes etc.) in the 'endgame' I'm happy - as long as we win this game ;).
Click to expand...
If it actually does get to that point, you may be calling me the mole. I've never played a serious modern war. Ever. I've never had it get that far, except in a couple OCC games where I just buzz around my city with stealth fighters picking off the cannon-fodder thrown my direction. The only time i've ever nuked anything in a game was when I put Cheat mode on to see what they were like! I could be a serious liability when the stakes get higher!
 
Maybe in 2.42 it means what it says. Pikeman get a defense bonus against Horsemen; only. ? Even in my test game, the Pike behind city walls got hurt by Chariots, but they shredded the Horsemen.

We shall overcome!

Late game, the fighting is even easier. The AI has no idea how to use the characteristics or the specialized units. The only thing they are fairly adept at doing it nukinga city, then paradropping a unit in. But, hopefully we'll have Nuke shields up, they won't get a chance to use them. I'm guessing the AI will get to building spaceships and we'll have to go take them out at some point. ;)

So, we're waiting for Andu or is Kev taking a run at it?
 
Isn't it a Chinese proverb that says "May you live in interesting times".

If so, we picked the correct civ to play!

I'll be happy to jump in tonight unless Andu checks in beforehand.

Before I read up on stuff, I did the boat thing with the dip and it worked quite nicely. Would have been better if we could have had an ironclad running around, but c'est la vie.

I have a feeling that later in the game the civs are going to end up with plenty of large cities and a TON of cash. From my brief experience and from what Andu tells me, I think that the AI cities will be able to grow past their starvation limit, so we could be in for a heck of a time. We'll have to take their capital, and then chase around like 7 or 8 more to destroy any spaceship that launches as they are likely to be able to keep moving the palace. And don't forget about the global warming that we're bound to see as the nukes fly.

These barb attacks and the negative effect they're having on our early trade and expansion will put us in a pretty difficlut spot.

That's why this should be great fun!!!
 
Originally posted by Kev
Would have been better if we could have had an ironclad running around
Click to expand...
I just had to laugh at this, since we don't even have caravels yet!! :lol:
 
I have used "Plant nuclear device" extensively in my D+2 games. In my most recent game not because it's fun but because it was absolutely necessary despite the fact that I had a 70+ unit invasion force near the enemy coast (the enemy civ was huge with something like 20,000 gold so I had to knock it down very quickly, otherwise everything would have been bribed back).

The AI civs are likely to get huge in this game - it seems this is may become a long and interesting game.
 
Very sorry all, I could not get to the game last night. I will play and write this evening instead.

y'know, I wonder if a caravel might have had a shot to kill that barb stack... I guess I could have just as easily wished for a battleship (and had the same results from that wish). :)
 
I tried playing the game from 1180 AD to see how well I would do in dealing with the barbs. I was able to wipe them out completely in 6 turns without losing a single city and by losing only a few units (probably about 5 but I didn't count). This may look impressive but it should be kept in mind that I had read the preceding discussion plus Duke's log and I used his brilliant idea of sending a a ship to reach the central stack of barbs (which I killed in 1240 AD). I also played 'globally' i.e. paid attention to the other cities although I wasn't as careful as I would have been had this been the 'real game'.

Here is the log. I hope I'm not wandering too much off topic by showing this 'parallel universe':

1180 AD (0): IPRB trireme in Hangchow, diplomat in Shanghai, crusader in Chengdu, crusader in Tientsin, diplomat in Tatung, diplomat in Kaifeng (hoping the barbs are stupid and do not capture the city), crusader in Capua, diplomat in Genoa. Switch to Leo in Tsingtao.

1200 AD (1): Barbarians do not capture Kaifeng ??! Several of them next to Kaifeng and Tientsin. Crusader in Tientsin kills two barbarians. Horseman bribed for $41, he then kills one barbarian. Now no barbarians can attack Tientsin next turn. Horseman bribed for $41 near Kaifeng, the horseman then kills a chariot and horseman. Now the barbs shouldn't reach Kaifeng next turn. Dips from Genoa and Tatung head for Tientsin as well as a crusader from Capua. Hangchow's trireme heads for the barbarian central stack loaded with a diplomat and crusader (the crusader is a 'backup unit' in the unlikely event that a bribed unit fails to kill the barb stack). We refuse to give invention to the Zulus but still get $50 from them. We get navigation from the Vikings in exchange for theology. The Vikings want $328 (50% of our cash) for continued alliance, we refuse and nothing happens. No gifts from them. IPRB crusader 'from scratch' for $150 in Kaifeng. RB Leo in Tsingtao for $144. RB barracks in Tientsin 'from scratch' for $160.

1220 AD (2): The two horsemen bribed last turn killed. Vikings start Bach. The situation following this:

barbs1220.jpg


Tsingtao builds Leo, Mongols abandon it. Crusader in Kaifeng kills two horsemen. Bribe two chariots for $122 after making sure the diplomat didn't move to the square of the latter one. These bribed unit kill two barbs, one retreats to Kaifeng, the other one is in grave danger but the dip is safe. Chariot bribed for $61 near Tientsin, used to kill a horseman that otherwise would attack Tientsin next turn.

1240 AD (3): The sitation at the start of the turn:

barbs1240.jpg


Bribe horseman next to central stack. If it fails to kill the stack the dip next to Kaifeng will board the trireme and bribe a chariot next turn. There's also a crusader aboard the trireme. WOOOHHHOOOOOO !!!!! Bribed horseman kills 73 units !!!!!! Then the horseman kills a chariot. The brave diplomat and horseman will die next turn. Now the only thing that is left is to mop up. Tientsin crusader kills a barbarian horseman that could have attacked next turn. Tientsin mostly out of danger now and switches from crusader to settler !

1260 AD (4): Only 9 barbs left at the start of the turn:

barbs1260.jpg


Chariot S of Tientsin bribed for $61, then kills two barbs. Crusader in Tientsin kills a chariot. Crusader near Kaifeng kills horseman NW of Kaifeng. Horseman next to Kaifeng bribed for $41, then kills the chariot. Crusader from caravel kills horseman on the coast. Only one barb left.

1280 AD (5): Only one remaining barb:

barbs1280.jpg


Crusader kills the remaining barbarian chariot. NO MORE BARBS !! Kaifeng settler unloaded from caravel to build road where the barbs appeared.


In retrospect I overreacted slightly to the barbarian attack since rush buying dips and crusaders in all four of Genoa, Tatung, Cremona and Capua was not necessary. However, I wanted to have some 'redundancy' in my plan, for example the crusader aboard the trireme.
 
Well, I played the turns. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to make you all wait a bit longer. I'll try to get things written up tonight, but it may have to wait until morning.

I never thought my teasers would catch on. I should nurture this.

- We have Bach's, and someone finished Magellan's Voyage... Who?
- Cities lost to the barbs... between 0 and 3
- Cities founded.... between 0 and 10
- Barb leader - where might it be heading?
- Techs discovered/begged.... Between 0 and 7
- Guns..................

:)
 
In the interest of getting this writeup done, please forgive any lack of story or entertainment value whatsoever.

1380 (0):

Yikes. Just plain yikes. Things are not looking good on the Chinese mainland. The decision is made forthwith to give up the city of Tientsin. It would take a Herculean effort to save the city with lots of cash spent. Hey, if I recall correctly, the city was a hut tribe – not really in an amazing spot or anything.

OK, so the barracks in the city is sold, and the decision is made to go after bigger and better things. Like Magellan’s. With the sale of the city walls in Beijing and Xinjian, we can rush a fair amount of caravans. Will we get there in time?

1400 (1):

Tsingtao builds Bach’s Cathedral and the three Elvis impersonators are put to work. With some nifty dip buying of barbs and moving about, we have an extra chariot and it and the diplomat head toward Tatung. Hmmm, Genoa is undefended and building a temple. Lose a few shields, but switch to a military unit – probably will train a diplomat here.

Tsingtao disbands its pikeman and the Tsingtao crusader gets support from Shanghai. Every shield counts. With the disbanding, rush building is done through caravel where the next turn the city’s 10+ shields will complete a caravan.

The Greeks warn us that we are too close to the city of Rhodes. We back off.

The wonderful Zulus are sending some crusaders and other units into the field near Cremona. That city is now safe.

Another decision is made regarding the many settlers we now have in the field. Expansionist Kev is out to make cities out of them.

1420 (2):

The city of Verona is built.

Lots of barbarian movement. A crusader is rushed in Tatung. We await the battles.

1440 (3):

Tsingtao, now building Magellan’s, takes on several caravans = enough to only have about 135 shields left with two getting there next turn.

Two huts are spotted. Do I dare?
The Mongols begin Magellan’s, and to my chagrin the Vikes have nearly completed it!

1460 (4):

With good production and two more caravans, only 17 shields are needed to finish Magellan’s. We do so for about 69 gold or so. We have plenty of gold left, and some barbs are bribed and others killed.

Hut #1 = wandering nomad.
Hut #2 = advanced tribe of Salamis – a size 4 city with a temple!

Barbs are moving dangerously close to Genoa now, with only its diplomat to defend.

1480 (5):

Tsingtao builds Magellan’s and starts to build a defender. The Vikes, Mongols and Spanish all abandon their efforts. Hah! Hope they wasted a bunch of shields.

Now I think it’s safe to contact our allies.

Zulus – have to give them Navigation. They give us 25 gold. Yippie.
Vikes – Zilch

The city of Lisbon is built.

Hut = 100 gold.

The barbarian leader is finally seen – and end to the stack at last.

Decide to put the luxuries up as some cities will celebrate (8 of them actually!)

1500 (6):

The city of Hamburg built.
The city of Prague built.

1510 (7):

Lower the luxuries again and up the cash flow.

Zulus – have to give them construction. They give us 25 gold. Yippie.
Vikes – Just plain GIVE us University!

City of Salzburg built
City of Bergen built
City of Venice built

More barbs killed, but an elephant (previously a chariot) must be sent to die. Sad.

1520 (8):

Tatung builds city walls and this should help out against the last of the barbs. Leader is heading west – hope it doesn’t go for a Zulu city. Units dispatched to get in the middle of things.

Zulus discover gunpowder
Vikes discover gunpowder (NOT from the library)

1530 (9):

Trade with the Zulus Trade for Gunpowder. We now have guns. Should help against the last of the barbs.

1540 (10):

Milan built on a hill that’s being mined beneath it. Should be ready soon and could be another decent production city.

Meet the Spanish. They are pretty aggressive and demand republic. We refuse and we’re now at war.

Barb leader heads back east.

Zulus are seen between Cunaxa and Nanking. Damn, they must have built a city there!

Notes:

BEWARE THE ZULUS. They are sending many units toward the now barbarian city of Kaifeng. They will likely raze the city or take it when they get there. I have a musket, a crusader and two dips heading toward the city to see what they can do.

The settler to the south of Tsingtao could move one square to the forest SE and build a city there after irrigating. It could also build a city where it stands after irrigating (would give it the ability to build a harbor there). Choice is the next player’s.

The settler to the FAR north may want to build a city a few squares away that would encompass three fish and a pheasant.

There is a Dye caravan heading toward Jorvik as it is a demanding city. The ship in Paoting can be used to shuttle caravans to the Vikes as they are made.

The barb leader is behind a chariot now to the NW of Kaifeng.
That’s all for now. If I think of anything else, I’ll write it out.

Final count:

Techs – Only two (university and gunpowder)
Cities built – NINE
Cities lost to barbs – One
 
Wow. For a game where we weren't even sure if we would get one Wonder done, we have 4 so far. :goodjob:

I think we need to put some Settlers on road duty. Just to have it where we don't have to worry about Barbs appearing in spots we don't want them at. We also should connect the cities more, so that they can support each other if anything else does come up. Plus, any square we are using in our cities should have a road on it if it increases trade.

I guess let's try and get an army of NONE's out of the deal also. . . ? A couple $41 NONE Crusaders (eventually Calvary) sounds good to me. :)
 
I started a bunch of cities on settlers so we can have some road builders and city connecters. I just thought that we needed to expand the city base, so I planted a bunch with the settlers out there already. Especially since some of the AI's may plant cities in our territory - like I'm sure the Zulus did. I think that the Vikes may have put a city somewhere on our continent as well - I saw some of their units moving about.

Some NONEs would be great, but remember the Zulus are approaching Kaifeng. They will probably attack the city and either raze it or take it unless we can set up something to stop them. Given that they're allies, zones of control will not work. Also, the leader is still out there, and for all the work done it would be great to collect the 200 gold!

Going rate for horsie = 41 gold
Going rate for chariots = 61 gold

Not bad if we can get them up to a nice horde of NONE cavalry!
 
I would keep the caravan from Cunaxa next the Zulu Settler in our area. If we don, he will found a city in between all our cities.

Maybe that gap bewteen Cunaxa and Nanking, as well as the spot that Capua was on should be our new city priorities? Then back fill where the Barbs are. I don't think we want the Zulus getting in the middle of things. Maybe Explosives should try to be priortized as well (although its not like we are doing any actual research of our own).
 
Things are looking much better now :goodjob: . Getting Magellan was wonderful.

Just a few barbarians left to kill and then we need to rebuild cities, especially Capua if the Zulus haven't already expanded in that direction. It might still be a good idea to build a ship in Hangchow, load it with a dip and maybe crusader and send it to the Kaifeng area (sending a crusader and dip through the forest towards Kaifeng is slow and may be dangerous).

Cremona may need a crusader but maybe the Zulus will defend us in this area.

We could start WLTP soon now that we have Bach and Mike.

There are some areas east of Salzburg and ESE of Yangchow where barbarians could appear, we should build roads and/or cities there ASAP.

Maybe we should start establishing some embassies.

I assume Andu plays next (if he's back).
 
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