D+2: "The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."

[TheViking]

Things are looking much better now than a few centuries ago, lots of cities, Mike almost finished and no barbs.

I'd probably rush buy Mike now (but that said I sometimes favour radical solutions to simple problems ) since we have Elvii in every city except those of size 1 (they are in disorder) and Mike would allow us to get rid of all of them.

We should definitely build a city in the far NE, it takes far too much time to bring the settler home. This also is a great spot for a city although the plains square to the NW is also a possibility (access to two whales plus the pheasant but no river).

It is possible to wake up the elephant aboard the trireme near Greece, land and then immediately board the trireme. This might uncover a hut. I discovered at least one hut (now the city of Shantung) that way.

We probably should expand N from Hangchow/NE from Kaifeng and found a city ASAP not far west of Swazi and/or Mpondo to make it more difficult for the Zulus to expand into this area. The grassland square next to the silk W of Swazi is a nice site and there are also nice city sites near the whale W of Mpondo.

 

[Kev]

Great job Tim. I agree to build Mike's now. If nothing else, it may help the others to abandon before they develop techs to switch to a different wonder.

Republic/Monarchy is a tough call. I'm tempted to say Republic to help us out when we finally have caravans running, and help us get some extra cash as well. Eventually, it may allow us to research on our own. Monarchy would be better if we're going to try to knock out a civilization and be in a protracted war. Don't know if the Greeks would even be a possible target.

Hey, I guess now that Monotheism is out and the Chapel pretty much done, we can continue to beg from our allies all over the place!

Final note: Andu contacted me and said that he is trapped at a family reunion in Wisconsin and has no method to get online. He will be there until July 1st.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I thought about rushing Mike's before my turn ended (so it could be my personal claim to glory ) but figured it would be best to let the next person decide. We've got enough shields into it now that we'll at least have a little gold left over, although an extra 40g/turn would be nice. I couldn't decide, so now it's someone elses problem!

I agree with trying to box the zulus in. The settler from Nanking was in the process of roading his way west to build a city nest to the Fish square to start shoring up the Eastern side against the zulus.

One thing to watch out for with the square next to the silk (W. of Swazi): One of our biggest problems is the ability to grow our cities - we need more food. Putting the city on that grassland square will block our access to the one water source in the area. It will be tough to irrigate if we settle the city there. The corn-whale site W of Mpondo might be more important to grab quickly.

I agree with settling in the NE now. I thought about a site up by the two whales, but being on the same continent as the greeks, I figured the River defense bonus would be useful. (First order of business there should probably be a Pikeman.) Plus I figured having a port city will probably be important there at some point.

 

[Old n Slow]

Great work Tim. I’m a fan of keeping options open, but I think that even though the Zulu’s started Mikes first, the Vikes may be the greater threat for completion. My recommendation is build two, maybe three turns more then buy.

As for Republic over Monarchy, I think that the switch makes sense when we have a few camels to deliver & can cash in. With the high rates of ugliness, I’d hate to lose out on the shields & martial law effects.

I’ll be out of town on the weekend and only sporadically checking in after Monday -- if the Duke steps up right away, then Jayne, feel free to step in ahead of me & I’ll catch up accordingly. And of course, as far as I’m concerned, Andu can jump back in at any time.

 

[Jayne]

Not a problem for me to step in - just as long as I don't get a huge barbarian uprings like last time!

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I'm available, just been sick and a bit busy. I'll post later today.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

A couple cities get IPRB. The plan is to wait on mikes because it will save us quite a bit of gold and will cost the Ai some more shields into a wasted Wonder. The next Odeo year is 860 AD, so Mikes will be rushed just before that and a Republic will be set up.

BTW, Very nice round of turns, Tim.

Tax rate changed to 70.0.30 since, as far as I could tell, the 10% luxuries weren’t doing anything for us.

Vikings Develop Construction.


800 AD – (1) Met with our allies. The Zulus felt they have given enough for now. The Vikings want to trade Construction, for, well, Trade. I agree since we may actually want to start some trade routes soon. Maps are also exchanged. City founded (Naples) in the NE region where it stands. The river seemed worthwhile for the trade and defense bonus it would provide. Hut found SE of Naples.


820 AD –(2) Settlers and garrison troops are starting to move to form a front line of cities with the Zulus. Hut provides Theology. That’s the first time I ever remember getting Theology from a hut. Some cities production changed from Settlers to Caravans in preparation for JS Bach.

Start Medicine.


840 AD –(3) Issus founded on nearby island. It could be a possible somewhat secure site that can be used for the other continent delivery bonus. Temple started. Mikes is purchased. Revolt is triggered, Republic, here we come. IPRB done in many cities. All Temples that were under construction are rushed.


860 AD –(4) Mikes is built and our Republic is formed. At 20% Luxuries, all the cities but Nanking and Hangchow would be content, so Luxuries are set to 30% where all the cities are stable with all citizens working. Tax is set to 70% and science is set to 0%. Our next priority is getting JS Bach’s done. Just for the fun of it, I switch between Monarchy and Republic a couple times just to compare them. Yep, Republic is better with the luxuries than Monarchy with the martial law.

All Warriors serving as garrisons in cities are disbanded. Everything else is left for now.


880 AD –(5) Hut found by exploring Elephant. Some IPRB of caravans done.


900 AD –(6) The first of three cities to form the Zulu line is built. Hut provides Engineering (which it looks like we are the first to discover). Some more IPRB of Settlers and Caravans done. Oh, how I miss our Warrior slot.

Vikings start Marco Polo. A second city starts Marco for the Vikings.


920 AD –(7) Shanghai build a Dye Caravan. Beijing builds a Gems Caravan. IPRB done. Another Hut found in the SE.

Vikings acquire Bridge Building from the Mongols. Peace Treaty signed between them.


940 AD –(8) Tsingtao builds a Copper Caravan. Hut provides 50 gold. More IPRB done across the map. 25 gold given from the Zulus. Meet with the Vikings, they want to Trade for Bridge Building. They want either Engineering or Theology. Rejected. Ask for help, Bridge Building Given. I didn’t want to give either tech to them because each had a Wonder with it. With two cities building Marco Polo, they could easily switch to it and not suffer any loss fro having two cities building the same Wonder. That wouldn’t teach them anything, now would it?

Zulus develop Republic.
Vikings have nearly completed Marco Polo.


960 AD –(9) Second city built for the Zulu line. 25 gold from the Zulus.

Vikings complete Marco Polo. Other city abandons it.

980 AD –(10) Temple in Naples rushed to counter the unhappy person who just appeared. The third city of the Zulu line is ready to be built. Once this city is built, we should re-home the Warrior to it to alleviate the drain it is having on Hangchow. These cities will make an area of coverage that should be able to keep the Zulus from expanding into our terrain more. Plus. If we ever do fight them, Umtata will fit into the city layout fairly well. 25 gold from the Zulus. I noticed that the Vikings have dropped to Receptive, so I decided to not talk to them incase they are feeling the urge to start demanding things of us. A bit more IPRB done.

Perhaps we need to think about gifting some techs to our Allies? If so, give them to the Vikings first since they have the Great library. Otherwise, gifting them to the Zulus first will automatically give them to the Vikings anyway.


I have a couple diplomats being built to try and provide zone coverage for our cities. The main priority right now looks to be JS Bach and roads. We have 3 caravans ready for Bachs and 3 more that should be done soon. That will give us 300 of the 400 shields needed. I have been having Tsingtao build caravans by letting it build at 9 shields for two turns, IPRB up to 20, going another 2 turns at 9, then at 12 to finish it off. I was hoping that Beijing and Shanghai would build their second Caravans after we used the first two for Bachs, that way we would hopefully have some good cargos to try and deliver to the Vikings.

Here's our current unit stats:


And our current Demographics:


980AD.sav

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Looking good...

I haven't loading things up but it looks like some significant progress. Theology was great - getting Bach would be a huge windfall. But even if we don't we just spoiled someone's oracle and added one citizen to Mike's cathedral effectiveness.

Did I read correctly that the Vikings completed MPE in 4 turns?????

 

[TheViking]

Great job with getting theology an unexpected bonus. If we finish Bach ahead of the other civs unhappiness is not going to be a big problem in this game - we can start preparing for WLTP but at the moment we have too many size 1 and 2 cities for it to be effective.

Given the large map Magellan would be extremely useful. Getting it ahead of the AI is probably going to be difficult though.

Some of our 'fringe' cities might benefit from courthouses.

Building a trireme in Tatung, loading it with a dip and sending it north would be a good idea IMO.

BTW since this is a succession game and I'm not constantly playing and the map is big and we have many cities scattered over a large area, I'm starting to find it slightly difficult to keep track of where our cities and units are. Last time I played I had to start by spending a few minutes tracking down a settler I knew we had somewhere out there .

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
...I have been having Tsingtao build caravans by letting it build at 9 shields for two turns, IPRB up to 20, going another 2 turns at 9, then at 12 to finish it off...

I was going to suggest rehoming the elephant to one of the cities on the inland sea and get tsingtao up to 10s production. But I looked again and if we make the buffalo worker an elvis we can celebrate the city up to 5, which should allow 10s production , but I don't know if that would still be content. It might mess up the happiness on two guys. just a thought

 

[TheViking]

Following my own 'complaints' about the difficulty of keeping track of where our cities etc. are here is a map of our world:



I changed the color of our cities from cyan to red to make them stand out more clearly against the background; there are no (known) barbarian cities in our world.

And these are our core cities:



Not exactly big cities compared to the many size 7-9 cities the Zulus, Vikings and other AI civs have. However, it is possible to celebrate cities like Tsingtao to size 5 (maybe 6 but I doubt it's a good idea).

We are geographically large (in fact #1 in the land area category) but we are #7 in population.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I hadn't planned on trying to celebrate until we got Bachs. I was hoping by then we would have more roads done around our newer cities and they might be able to participate in the celebrations as well.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
I hadn't planned on trying to celebrate until we got Bachs. I was hoping by then we would have more roads done around our newer cities and they might be able to participate in the celebrations as well.

I meant that, with one elvis, it could celebrate at our current luxury rate.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Well, hell, why didn't you do that then?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Actually re-reading your explanation, what you were doing looks much better than I thought. When I first read it, I thought you were rush buying the final 12 shields. Looking at it now, I assume you're moving a worker to the mountain for one turn to get the last 12s. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Yep, that's what I was doing.

But, I like your idea of celebrating the cities that can at the current luxury rate. It looks like we can get Beijing up to a size 7 before it runs out of extra food, Tsingtao up to a 5, and Shangai up to a 5 as well.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

The more I think about it, I'm just not sure if we could sustain the growth I'd hate to grow the city, just to hire another elvis. With a Temple (+2) and Mikes (+4) we are turning 3 blackhats content in the size 4 cities. I'm afraid with one other citizen the Cathedral will turn all four citizens red, then the temple will only turn two of them content leaving 2 red-heads. The question is...would we have enough trade to get the fourth Luxury Cup to get two happies? If we can do it, great... I just can't tell if we can get past 5 without more luxuries.

 

[Jayne]

It happened again!!!!



1000ad(1) - Issus builds temple, starts dip. Naples builds temple, starts dip. Macao builds setts, starts dip. Tatung builds setts, starts dip. Tientsin builds dip, starts van. Nanking builds setts, starts dip.

Found Capua - start temple.

1020ad(2) - Population +900,000. Ellie pops hut = €50

1040ad(3) - Paoting builds setts, starts dip. Tsingtao build coal van, starts van. Horse pops hut near Naples = €100

1060ad(4) - Kaifeng builds setts, starts dip.

Found Turin - start dip

Speak to Vikings: They demand engineering - we gift. We ask for gift in return - they refuse.

1080ad(5) - Shatung builds setts, start dip.

Population +1,000,000. Pop hut = Invention!

Russians attack Bapedi. Zulus develop Maths, Vikings develop Navigation. Vikings start KRC.

1100ad(6) - Hut on South Pole = €50

1120ad(7) - Chengdu builds copper van.

Speak to Vikings: They want to swap Navigation for Invention. We offer Theology instead, but they don't want it. Instead, the demand Invention. We refuse, and they choose not to cancel our alliance. Phew!

Speak to Zulus (whoose attitude has improved): They gift €50

Icy Mongol knight appears at Cannae: They demand €700!!! We refuse, and they declare war! A second knight appears. Cannae is undefended!

1140ad(8) - Xinjian builds wool van, starts dip.

Found Genoa - start dip

Mongols destroy Cannae, taking €13 and Invention which the Vikings then get from GL. Mongols start Leo's

1160ad(9) - Herodotus wealthiest Civs:
1. ?
2. Vikings
3. ?
4. Mongols
5. Greeks
6. Chinese
7. Zulus

Issus builds dip, starts setts. Shanghai builds gems van. Tsingtoa builds gold van - decide to build a dip whilst waiting for all the remaining vans to reach Tsingtoa and avoid wasting shields or money by building in one turn. Also - it gives us the opportunity to build Leo's first, and carry on building vans for Bach's later.

Hut = €100

Major barb horde near Kaifeng! I counted 12 units moving (chariots and horses) plus a stack at the origin.

1180ad(10) - Cremona in disorder - rush temple. Macao builds dip, starts sett.

Kaifeng is undefended and the barbs can capture in the next turn. Tientsin nearby is defended by a dip. Caravan production switched to archer.


1180ad.sav

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Doh!!!!

Wasn't it Old N Slow's turn...maybe we should see how these turns go for him instead! (jk)

Do you think we can still get Bach if we go for Leo's first? It would be VERY nice to get Leos and stop the AI's (particularly mongols or vikings!) from getting it. Those AI's have so many units wandering around at this level it's frightening. However, Bach's is also going to be critical. Luckily the AI's don't prioritize Theology too much (especially the collection of warmongers we're up against)

If (when) the Barbs take Kaifeng, will we be in a position to buy up a None army, or will the city be destroyed? Are our other cities too close to get Nones? If we can get some dips in there it could actually be our saving grace - especially if we get Leo's.

Before long we might want to spend down our cash (buying Barbs? or Bach?) and then talk to the mongols and play nice with them at a time when they can't demand 700g. We didn't declare war on them (like we did with the Greeks), so there still might be a chance of having good relations with them.

Now I have to spend the entire day at work wondering how all this looks and how it might turn out. Oh well.

 

[TheViking]

Just when I was again starting to think this was going to be another easy game this happens. Looks like we already have a mole in this game (OK, I admit it: This was a nasty joke . I'd like to emphasize that I want this game to be challenging so I'm actually rather happy that this happened. Getting to use nukes later on would be fun :devil2: ).

Regarding wonders, the AI usually isn't very interested in Bach so without having looked at the game following Jayne's turns I think we can get both Bach and Leo. Getting Leo would be wonderful in this type of game, especially if we can get a barb farm up and running.