[RD] Daily Graphs and Charts

[Borachio]

You've got to wonder why the US spends so much on "defence".

Who is it keeps attacking it that it feels so threatened?

 

[CavLancer]

Tossing softballs, that's an easy one.

Hollywood.

 

[Kyriakos]

Spoiler :

That list is really wrong, to the point of being ludicrous. Not that i am a militarist or anything (i dislike the army), but i am pretty sure Greece has a huge army compared to... Czechia?

 

[Cutlass]

For North Korea they've probably counted all the ships which sunk due to lack of maintenance ^^.

Whoever ranked this, didn't do it on a measure I can understand. How the hell is this ranked? Why is the Czech Republic above Algeria o_O?
Germany does for sure not have the 7th most powerful army in the world.
Just compare it to turkey below. Or nearly all other countries.
And money doesn't mean that you have working equipment either.

EDIT: Also don't really trust the numbers.
It would mean that the forces of France, Germany, Italy and Poland are of roughly equal manpower compared to the Russian forces (not considering UK, because deployment is problematic there). Okay, less tanks, more planes, but Russia is also a tad bit bigger and more difficult to defend.

Russia has bigger budget problems. Wiki says the current manpower of the Russian Army is 285,000. France, 115,000. Germany, 60,000. But it looks like on the graph they're talking about all the personnel from all the services. That would put Russia at 771,000. France 215,000. Germany 180,000. Exclusive of inactive reserves.

But the number don't add up in other ways as well. Under the aircraft carrier column they're including helicopter carriers for other nations, but not the American ones, which doubles our number.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

You've got to wonder why the US spends so much on "defence".

Who is it keeps attacking it that it feels so threatened?

Those violent marijuana addicts, obviously.

 

[Leoreth]

That list is really wrong, to the point of being ludicrous. Not that i am a militarist or anything (i dislike the army), but i am pretty sure Greece has a huge army compared to... Czechia?

Czechia and Greece are roughly comparable in terms of population and GDP. Why would you expect the Greek military to be substantially bigger, overspending notwithstanding?

 

[Cutlass]

Wiki says Czechia has an army of 21,000 active. Greece 90,000. I imagine the Czech Republic has more faith in NATO to protect it from Russia than Greece has to protect it from Turkey.

 

[Joecoolyo]

You've got to wonder why the US spends so much on "defence".

Who is it keeps attacking it that it feels so threatened?

WW2 and the Cold War kind of scarred us.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

WW2 and the Cold War kind of scarred us.

Actually, it just taught us that weapons are the ideal product of Capitalism, which has made us wealthy. Does make us a truly horrific neighbor though.

 

[really]

Wiki says Czechia has an army of 21,000 active. Greece 90,000. I imagine the Czech Republic has more faith in NATO to protect it from Russia than Greece has to protect it from Turkey.

I'd guess that the difference is the conscripts.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/gr-personnel.htm

In 1994 the total number was 159,300, of whom 122,300 (77 percent) were conscripts ....In 1994 some 24 percent of armed forces personnel were classified as professional soldiers (career NCOs or officers).

 

[Joecoolyo]

Actually, it just taught us that weapons are the ideal product of Capitalism, which has made us wealthy. Does make us a truly horrific neighbor though.

Don't see what makes weapons an ideal product of capitalism. They aren't necessary and only sell when they're needed. Periods of peace = no one wants to buy your expensive crap.

An ideal product, I would think, is something that is necessary for daily life and thus sells at a steady rate, regardless of the situation. Lots of money to be made there.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Don't see what makes weapons an ideal product of capitalism. They aren't necessary and only sell when they're needed. Periods of peace = no one wants to buy your expensive crap.

An ideal product, I would think, is something that is necessary for daily life and thus sells at a steady rate, regardless of the situation. Lots of money to be made there.

Have you noticed any fall off in weapons sales, ever? The peace dividend is a myth.

Things that are necessary in daily life very rapidly become "good enough." You won't get rich inventing a new toothbrush. Or as the old saying goes, there's no such thing as building a better mousetrap. Besides, everyday necessities, by their nature, have to be fairly cheap.

Ah, but weapons systems are the biggest of big ticket items, short of building the pyramids or something. And even if you don't use them, as soon as there is new innovation they are rendered useless and have to be replaced.

 

[Borachio]

The ideal product is something highly addictive. Like heroin, or cocaine.

Then your consumers do your marketing for you.

Opium is a really good crop, I hear. It's easy to grow, has a ready market, and keeps practically indefinitely - on the off-chance that you don't find a buyer immediately.

 

[Leoreth]

Wiki says Czechia has an army of 21,000 active. Greece 90,000. I imagine the Czech Republic has more faith in NATO to protect it from Russia than Greece has to protect it from Turkey.

Well to be fair, the Czechs have the additional luxury of Poland being kind of in the way to them.

 

[Kyriakos]

Czechia and Greece are roughly comparable in terms of population and GDP. Why would you expect the Greek military to be substantially bigger, overspending notwithstanding?

Well, for starters, here there are literally hundreds of tanks (mostly german, as noted), and tens of F-16s. Anyway, i am not sure why i am even in this discussion about armies

 

[Joecoolyo]

Have you noticed any fall off in weapons sales, ever? The peace dividend is a myth.

Things that are necessary in daily life very rapidly become "good enough." You won't get rich inventing a new toothbrush. Or as the old saying goes, there's no such thing as building a better mousetrap. Besides, everyday necessities, by their nature, have to be fairly cheap.

Ah, but weapons systems are the biggest of big ticket items, short of building the pyramids or something. And even if you don't use them, as soon as there is new innovation they are rendered useless and have to be replaced.

You can only inflate weapon sales for so long. People are already whining and complaining about the size of the military budget. It's artificial, and things that are artificial only last so long.

You won't get rich, but it will be steady income. Everyone needs a new toothbrush at some point, to replace old and worn out ones. And they'll also need toothpaste to go with it. It's a necessary, cheap product that will make money in large volumes, since, well, everyone needs one. And the population is only increasing.

Weapons I guess are a risky venture, great profit, but also greater chance for disaster. You have to keep pumping up threats, or convince people of the necessity of security or see your business go bust. You don't really need to convince people that brushing their teeth is good.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You have to keep pumping up threats, or convince people of the necessity of security or see your business go bust.

Have you noticed this being any sort of real problem in your lifetime? I'm old, and I haven't. Cold war, war on drugs, war on terrorism, assorted wars here and there, crime rampant in the streets, illegal alien invasions...fearmongering never really seems to fail, near as I can make out.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Have you noticed this being any sort of real problem in your lifetime? I'm old, and I haven't. Cold war, war on drugs, war on terrorism, assorted wars here and there, crime rampant in the streets, illegal alien invasions...fearmongering never really seems to fail, near as I can make out.

Not in my lifetime, but as a history major I have studied historical occasions. Just look at the politics of peace in the wake of the First World War, and the hatred of war profiteers. I don't know any specific about the industry during that period, but the demilitarization and peace campaigns had to have an effect. Just look at the Washington Naval treaty (though that was done for more reasons than just pleasing the peace lobby, most pressing being the breaking up of the Anglo-Japanese naval alliance, but I digress) and tell me you don't see a crap-ton of profit gone down the drain.

Right now we may live in a period where the military-industrial complex is fairly strong, and has convinced a lot of people of the necessity of their products. But they're going to have to keep doing that to make money. It's not something that people will innately buy, rain or shine.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Not in my lifetime, but as a history major I have studied historical occasions. Just look at the politics of peace in the wake of the First World War, and the hatred of war profiteers. I don't know any specific about the industry during that period, but the demilitarization and peace campaigns had to have an effect. Just look at the Washington Naval treaty (though that was done for more reasons than just pleasing the peace lobby, most pressing being the breaking up of the Anglo-Japanese naval alliance, but I digress) and tell me you don't see a crap-ton of profit gone down the drain.

Right now we may live in a period where the military-industrial complex is fairly strong, and has convinced a lot of people of the necessity of their products. But they're going to have to keep doing that to make money. It's not something that people will innately buy, rain or shine.

The economy that currently exists came into existence in the 1930s. So by your historical observation it has never existed without massive defense spending. In my opinion there is no reason to believe that the economy as reconstructed at that time could ever survive without it.

The issue isn't whether defense is the perfect product for a specific capitalist. The issue is that capitalism, as defined as the economic system of the United States of America from the 1930s through the present, is dependent on that product.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Composite chart thingy showing how Bill Clinton aged 20 years