[BTS] DAR - Prince - Pangea - Normal - Default settings

[lymond]

Ok...a few observations having looked at the save:

1) Markets = bad - don't build them
2) You are at war - build units. You are very much in a situation where you can a) finish off Hanny b) start setting up the next war with Gilgs or maybe Darius. You want to start killing folks before they get to Feud. Darius is a good techer even on prince
3) No need to focus EPs on Hanny ..a guy you are about to kill. Wasted EPs. Mansa is the guy to focus on here (and usually always is in any game he is present. He is the fastest AI techer, and always willing to trade with you regardless of attitude)
4) Not sure what the Spy is for
5) I would have at least settled the sheep city NW and cow/iron due N by now, but good gains on taking Carthage.

6) Important concept: You seem still stuck on running some X percentage of beaker slider. Get used to 100% or 0% for much of the early game until you can get large chunks of gold. Absolutely no reason not to finish CoL at 100% this turn. The goal or optimal thing to think about with research is that ideally you always want to run at 100%, but if not you run at 0% to accumulate enough gold to then finish tech at 100%. Yes, at time you might tweak a little at 90, 80 or 70% to finish that last bit. But point is not to be so passive about teching in the game. Teching requires some optimization. Don't neglect it. And ALWAYs be on the lookout for ways to get gold - trading old techs, in you case you are getting city capture gold, resource trades, even begs and demands ..and fail gold.

7) Temple of Artemis is a bit of a waste here (i'm assuming the idea was fail gold). You are neither IND nor do you have marble. You are at war. Build units or build a settler or two.

8) You seem to be on the case but I would advance toward CS for Bureau. You might even go through Feudalism here as well first (bonus on CS) to open up the ability to vassal folks. (Feud is an AI priority tech and on higher levels you would usually trade for it, but this is Prince and AIs are slower..it is not critical that you would tech it here though.. I would )

Lastly, you are getting a bit wasteful with the workers. You are not automating them are you? One worker is building a road toward Carthage that I'm not sure is needed...maybe. But importantly, you are building cottages on the outside of cities like HAR. Cottages should be first placed on tiles that can be shared with Yas to grow them for Bureaucracy. There are still quite a few tiles that can be cottaged and worked for Yas, including turning the farmed FPs now into cottages. (this all should have been done earlier)


Oh..and to answer you thoughts on the last post. While I would ignore the term "specialist economy", you are in Representation, so in some cities like Har, food may be better than cottages. That still does not preclude cottages for Bureau Yas, and all tiles that Yas can eventually work should be cottage and those tiles continually worked by Yas or its helper cities (with the exception of the need to whip units, ofc - just make sure you are microing the tiles cities work constantly). But yeah, when you can, cities should be running scientists to boost your research and produce more GSs.

On another note, Music tech can be a nice diversion for the free Great Artist for a golden age later, which provides a lot of benefits we can go over more later.

 

[diegoami]

I guess I slacked with the whip lately also because I wanted towns to grow and do more research, and I have pretty much solved problems with happyness... I will go back to more whipping, I guess.
Thanks for the save @Gumboldt, that is a lot of horse archers and ass kicking ! What is so great about horse archers, could I do the same type of attack rush with elephants ? Also useful to see where you exactly placed your towns.
Thanks also for your tips @lymond

So you guys do not build archers, markets, walls ... ever ? Aren't archers the best unit for town defense, as at least one unit in town avoids -1,-2 unhappyness? Don't markets pay themselves in a high commerce town in a longer game, and also allow to add merchant specialists ?
I am now afraid to ask about walls, castles, or aqueducts (which to Khmers gives +1 food).
I guess I might want to take on Darius, as I would get diminishing returns on the other Hannibal's towns. I would also want to pause a little an expand north, I would settle 1S of cow and 1E of sheep as Gumboldt did in his game.
I thought a spy could help explore the territory I don't see during the war and possibly do sabotage, such as on copper / iron mines.
I will try and remember to switch the sliders between 0 and 100 % . I have been selling techs, but you do not seem to be able to make real money with resources in this particular game.
I understand that the temple is a waste without marmor, but it seemed to be produced quickly either way. Right, though, there are more important things to build.
I am certainly not automating the workers, a road to Carthago seemed important to me at least for quick troops movement. I will move on and build more cottages also on grassland.
About technology, so Feudalism, Civil Service and Music should be given priority ? In Middle Age I admit I go a little random with technologies...Machinery and Engineering would also seem important to me, for the units and improvements that they give access to...

 

[AcaMetis]

In terms of military police (I.E. one military unit placed on a city to prevents the "we fear for our protection" unhappiness) there's no difference between a Warrior and an Archer, except for cost. Warriors are cheaper, so they are preferred.

In most cases Markets cost too many hammers to be worth it over just building Wealth. An important thing about Markets (and Grocers, Banks, Wall Street, etc.): Their +% only works if you're not running your slider at 100% - otherwise every you generate is converted into either , or , and the bonus to generating is just wasted. As for running merchants, if you want a GM you'll want to switch into Caste so that you can run more than just 2 merchants at once. Markets can be worth building if a city has a powerful religious Shrine (particularly if you got the shrine through an early conquest and can angry population to get it), and if you ever found a corporate HQ you'll definitely want to build +% buildings to maximize profit/minimize losses, but it's not a building every city needs.

Walls and Castles you don't ever want to build, pretty much. Perhaps one to fortify a border city that's next to a warmonger in case of a DoW, but really, they only really shine in situations you don't ever want to be in.

Aqueducts are generally not worth it early- or mid-game, since they're pretty intensive to build and you don't really need +2 at that point. After you've industrialized and every city is choking in and , sure, but before that not often. The Khmer UB, though...I have no idea. Still expensive, but +1 is something to think about.

Any city you capture from someone will have "we yearn to join the motherland" until either you build a ton of culture in that city or their motherland is completely dead. It may or may not matter, but it's something to consider.

Spies can be useful scouts that way, to track stacks or see what cities are defended by, but keep in mind that there's always a chance for them to get caught and you don't need to have invested into someone to use spies as just scouts. All you invested into someone will also get wiped if they get wiped, so be careful to only invest as much as you need. As for sabotage I think the best use for spies is to incite city revolt right before you attack, since a city in revolt gets no cultural defence bonus and that can save a few units. Someone more experienced than me will have to go into more detail about that.

 

[lymond]

I guess I slacked with the whip lately also because I wanted towns to grow and do more research, and I have pretty much solved problems with happyness... I will go back to more whipping, I guess.

Well, yeah and no. Do whip..but whip judiciously. It's about time for Yas to grow to happy cap and to work as many "improved" tiles as possible. Then when it hits cap you can slow growth by running specialists or building a settler/worker. The cap - after the early whippage - is the one city you do want to grow the best it can for the time in prep for Bureau. As for other cities, the general rule is to work you best tiles. For example in Har you have corn and copper - you never want to whip off those tiles (although Ankor can work copper too). But also you want to try to keep those cottages growing for Yas. So..as mentioned...be judicious. Cities like Har and Angkor can grow back real fast, so keep them at east at size 4 or more and two pop stuff the rest.

By the way, when you find time, I'm posting a link here about whipping mechanics, some of the math behind it, and overflow:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/going-from-noble-tooo.468987/#post-11671673

Actually, its links within links where I had provided some primers to several folks in the past. Peruse it when you get the chance and try to apply the concepts in game. It's pretty much just the basics, as the concept can get advance, but this is something you do want to learn to optimize your whipping and really understand what you are doing or not doing.

Thanks for the save @Gumboldt, that is a lot of horse archers and ass kicking ! What is so great about horse archers, could I do the same type of attack rush with elephants ? .

HAs are probably the best pound for pound rush non-UU unit in the game. They are relatively cheap and certainly you can get to them faster than Elies. But even more important is that they are mounted units..i.e., faster. 2 moves opens up tactics not available to 1-movers. Ofc, if I recall, you did not have horse online early anyway, and it is fine how you are progressing here with Balistapults.

Thanks also for your tips @lymond

my pleasure

So you guys do not build archers, markets, walls ... ever ? Aren't archers the best unit for town defense, as at least one unit in town avoids -1,-2 unhappyness? Don't markets pay themselves in a high commerce town in a longer game, and also allow to add merchant specialists ?

Acametis answered this stuff quite well, but I'll add my thoughts. First off, with the exception of doing an HA rush or just urgent need for barb defense on the highest levels, I don't ever tech Archery nor do I even trade for it. Not sure how you got Archery, maybe popped it from a hut. Anyway, I usually build a few warriors early on that eventually return home from spawnbusting to MP my core cities. Not sure where your warriors went, but I thought you had a few. Then in later cities, you might ask yourself initially whether you need MP in those cities for the time being. As long as they are happy they are fine. Your core cities are not threatened anyway.

As Acametis mentioned, Markets are very expensive buildings early on. 150 hammer is a lot. The cost to benefit is very poor. Merchants are something you can run later in Caste during a Golden Age or later game when you might run Caste permanently. Game does reach a point where GMs are more valuable than GSs (and actually GMs are the second most valuable great person). But there is no need to waste so many hammers on markets right now. A city can build wealth if nothing to do, but you have plenty to do here.

I am now afraid to ask about walls, castles, or aqueducts (which to Khmers gives +1 food).

Acametis already answered on walls/castes. Aqueducts again are a relatively expensive building. You certainly don't need them here and Sury is EXP. With that said, I think the Baray is a bit underrated as a building, but again not needed everywhere. However, you probably should build the very nice Hanging Gardens wonder so you might put up a Baray in a city like Har to enable it...or even Ankor that can benefit a little bit from the extra food and has some hammers to build HG..and I think some forests to chop to speed it up.

Bottom line. is that you need to start thinking about the costs of what you build and ask yourself what your goals are - what is important now? Am I at war? Have I expanded all that I should? Start setting objectives for yourself and invest in things that play to that objective. Building things like Markets and Aqueducts (other than one for HG) have no real objective. It's just passive play.

I guess I might want to take on Darius, as I would get diminishing returns on the other Hannibal's towns. I would also want to pause a little an expand north, I would settle 1S of cow and 1E of sheep as Gumboldt did in his game.

I don't think expanding a bit more and continuing war is mutually exclusive here. I'd finish off Hanny while starting another Army for Darius. Hanny army can probably take on Gilgs soon after with a bit of reinforcement that can primarily come from those captured cities once they pacify.

I thought a spy could help explore the territory I don't see during the war and possibly do sabotage, such as on copper / iron mines.

Well, if you wanted a spy for Hanny you should have 2popped it early. You can invest 9 or less hammers into a spy to two pop it, but note any preceding OF hammers before you start it. Start looking at your OF in cities by the way. In case of spy use in war, as Acametis mentioned, I'd use them mainly for city revolts (reduces defense to 0). Other than that I might build a spy to sit in my cap to prevent tech steals - probably not a real issue for you right now. Or to steal techs -again pretty worthless on this level.

As mentioned previously, your best bet right now is to just play the EP stuff passively by focusing EPs on the best techer like Mansa, so you can see what they are teching. This can help set up the trades and stuff, which actually becomes pretty important on higher levels.

I will try and remember to switch the sliders between 0 and 100 % . I have been selling techs, but you do not seem to be able to make real money with resources in this particular game.

Lower the level, the less gold AIs tend to have, at least early, but do trade whatever extra resources for any GPT you can get. Renegotiate later when they have more GPT to spare (you can do so every 10 turns but wait until they have a least more than 1gpt available to renegotiate) AIs will be slower to wonders on this level but always note when a wonder is built by someone as it is usually a time where other AIs get fail gold..trade old stuff for that gold.

Note that as a game progresses and your beaker multipliers kick in as well as growing commerce and specialists, you can play with the slider a bit more. But the 0 to 100% (binary research) deal is something to basically live by for the early to mid--game, but always 100% when you have the gold.

Also, an interesting thing you can do is gauge AI teching by the trade screen. (a bit micro intensive but the expert players live by it), One AI you should have EPs on anyway so you can see what they are teching. However, in the trade/diplo screen after currency you can simulate trades to see if an AI is in the process of teching something and how far they might be. For example. say you have Maths. An AI as Meditation, Priesthood and 80 gold. You talk to him and he would give you all that for Maths in a trade. Next turn, try again and see the comparison. What does it mean if he gives you Med, PH, but now only 50 of his gold?

I understand that the temple is a waste without marmor, but it seemed to be produced quickly either way. Right, though, there are more important things to build.

Again, it is about priorities. First, for fail gold opportunities, if I have stone, "marmor" (cool new word), or IND trait, I usually put a turn into a bonus Wonder to catch a bit of OF from a completed build or just as a placeholder for a turn or two if I have nothing pressing to build in that city for a bit. In your case, you don't have marble so it is a full cost build of basically a wonder you don't need. (And actually, note that Temple of Artemis is a wonder you want the AIs to build because the city that builds it always gives a 200g bonus on Great Merchant trade missions. It is a good early wonder for fail gold opportunity. (AIs usually build it fairly early too even on lower levels) But you have no bonus. So, again, what better for you now could be built in stone city?

I am certainly not automating the workers, a road to Carthago seemed important to me at least for quick troops movement. I will move on and build more cottages also on grassland.

Good...did not look closely but thought you had a road through that other Carthaginian city up to Carthage itself. Are you reinforcing that army? Strategic roads can be a good thing so I don't want to totally discourage the concept of them, but just was not sure that was the best thing for the worker. Your core cities are still quite neglected as I mentioned.

About technology, so Feudalism, Civil Service and Music should be given priority ? In Middle Age I admit I go a little random with technologies...Machinery and Engineering would also seem important to me, for the units and improvements that they give access to...

That's would be my focus here now. IMO might as well go Feud yourself here on this level to possibly cap some of these AIs later and the tech does give a small bonus on CS tech. Again, on higher levels Feud is something you trade for - it is probably THE #1 AI priority tech - AIs always go for it. But on Prince, they will be slow to everything.

Same for Machinery and Engineering. AI priority techs, but really depends on what you are trying to do here. You can probably run this map, or at least this continent (not sure if all AIs met at the moment or some on other landmass(es)), with mainly Elies and putls, but later Trebs with some Macemen thrown in don't hurt, plus the extra speed on roads. If this is all about war you can go that route after CS. If you want to do something else, we can talk about that as well.

Ultimately, our goal here is for you to learn the basics and just overall improve your gameplay and understanding of the mechanics. Those can always apply even as you move up levels. However, as I have kind of alluded to here and there, things get a bit different on higher levels. You have to learn to adjust as you move up and strategies/tactics can change. But overall, just focus on tightening up your game for now and mastering this level. With a game or two under your belt, and even a bit of practice (just play 100 turns of a game over and over a few times) you will be at Monarch in no time or even Emperor.

Lastly, I want to emphasize again that I recommend you really start to look at the info you are given. Invest a little time in the maths of things. Look at your city screen. What does an item cost? What is a city's base hammer output? What is Overflow(OF)? What is one whipped citizen worth? (I go over some of this is the links I provided above). Look at your commerce too...and not just that on the tiles, but trade routes as well.[/QUOTE]

 

[lymond]

In Middle Age I admit I go a little random with technologies

I meant to focus on this problem separately here. As mentioned, my recommendation is to focus on the first 100 turns or so for now. Even replay them. (Doesn't mean not to continue current game..you are in decent position here and appear to be learning a lot). Anyway, mastering the early game is really key to the whole game.

After 1AD or thereabouts, you are starting to look at what your overall goal is for the game. What is your end game. How do you want to win. Once CS is in and your cap getting the benefits of Bureaucracy, you will get a pretty nice tech boost. Also, around this time - one way or another - you want to kick off a golden age. One of the major purposes of Golden Ages is the 100% boost to GPP (great people points). So you switch to a Golden Age (like with the GA from Music) after letting cities get some turns of growth and then start pumping out some Great Scientists to be used to bulb your way to Liberalism. Common ploy on higher levels.

Now on Prince level you can still do this, but getting to Lib fast is usually less a priority as you can tech it later and get some more expensive later game tech. But the general idea, and common practice, is to speed your way up to a nice military advantage. Like Libbing Military Tradition for the Curaisser, a powerful mid-game unit oft used on high levels for conquest. Or go the peaceful route for speedy Education and quick Unis/Oxford for a Space game or UN victory.

So just like Civil Service is what I like to call a gateway tech (I call Writing and Currency this as well)...Lib is basically a gateway as well. But keep in mind that all this plays into your objective for the game. For example, you should be in a strong position here to bring all the known Civs to their knees. If there are AIs overseas - I suspect there are - and you want to really run this game toward Conquest or Domination, then a possible approach would be to focus toward Lib with the idea of grabbing Astronomy for ocean bearing ships. Again, just an idea, You can play this anyhow you want. The point though is the have a goal, and by mid-game or Medieval that goal should be in place.

 

[Gumbolt]

Well covered by most.
HA - strong unit and moves faster. I wanted units at the front line and phants would take 10+ turn.
City walls/markets/archers/religious buildings and aqueducts - Barely build. I would rather build a unit I can use to attack an AI stack/city. I plan to finish your game in 10 or so turns. Why would I build anything but units or wealth?
Spies- If you have open borders you should know what units the AI have if a warrior or chariot is scouting out their land. Rarely build them.

If your going to attack an AI always go for his capital first if it is within 3-4 or so tiles from your borders. Which Carthage was. Going for a smaller city first means he will inevitably have time to whip/build units which will end up in his capital.

500-600bc is pretty late for an axe rush. I had finished my war with carthage by 425bc. This is why whipping is important. It speeds up the war by several turns. Whipping axes from 4 pop to 2 pop really helps. That mixed with chops and you soon have 9-10 axes. If your worried the Ai has sword/axes you wait for 3-4 catapults. The key is to get there early enough so he doesn't have a large stack of melee units. Angor has no cottages so should be whipped 2 or so times for units. Same for Harihar. It has a 6f corn resources. If you whip size 4 to 2 it will grow back in 4-5 turns. I swapped the copper between cities when I whipped and grew on best food resources.

The problem here is you have ultimately tried to do everything.
Why do you need the great wall? I got attacked by about 4-5 warrior barbs. They mostly died against axes.
Mids? Sure great for rep but by expanding to 6-7 cities and using cottages I have easily outstripped your science. Maybe you will have a few more great people but your empire size come 1AD is nearly half mine.

I beelined calendar for happiness. As I had explored more and built more cities I had the silver and other happiness resources working for me.

Did you delete all your warriors? Where are they?

Academies - I would only ever put one in your capital. The second GS should of been used for a golden age or to bulb techs like education. This is reason people go for music. To use great artist for a golden age.

So main issues.
You stopped expanding at 4 cities.
Your have a build mentality. Only build what is actually useful. Wasted hammers on Great wall.
Whipping/chopping - Use these early on to help get more workers/settlers and units for war.
Capital focus - If you plan to build cities as helper cities to the capital actually build cottages the capital can run. I count 1 cottage you are running. With only 3 cottages it can actually use. This should be 7-8 cottages by 1ad. Try to use flood plains for cottages.
wars- If you go to war all cities apart from maybe the capital should be building axes/swords/pults or phants. If your not whipping you won't win on higher levels.

 

[diegoami]

Thank you lymond and Gumbolt for the tips. I should be able to play on tonight or tomorrow.

Yes, right, I deleted those stone warriors. It kinds of ruins the immersion for me, having stone warriors in the middle ages or the industrial age for that matter But I understand that from a gameplay point of view it makes sense to keep them, as this game does not give you refunds for deleting old units.
I was assuming that an early war would lead me to financial problems and lagging behind technologically, unless I could find a way to get money from some other source. Gumbolt's game shows of course how you can deal with that.
That's why I thought it was a must to let a town build failing wonders - wasn't actually expecting to finish them... But it seems to me that building a wonder can never be bad, at least for negating them to the AI.
Yeah, I am aware that my "rush" was a little late, was actually planning to expand peacefully - until Carthago started border pushing, so I switched gear.

Noted that I should build more cottages.

Anyway, I didn't know about the Golden Age slingshot strategy to get either a military advantage (Cuirassiers and Cannons) or a technological advantage. Actually never thought about triggering a golden age with Great Persons.
Definitely something I might want to try in this game. The map is Pangea, so for all I know all civilizations should be reachable and Astronomy should not be necessary.
I would rather now try and be peaceful for a while, expand north, AI permitting, and concentrate on the other stuff you are proposing (spying on the Mali, playing the slider game, trading resources and technologies, make the workers count, paying attention to what I produce which may be just "Knowledge" as I see).
I wasn't paying that much attention at that during the war, I think I need a peaceful period to refine those "skills".
Although as of now it is seems to me that it is the Romans who are limiting my expansion NW, as they have a town too close to where I wanted to settle. I am considering a limited war to remove them from that area, which does not seem to be their core area anyway.

 

[lymond]

Good advice from Gumbo, but I would not worry about the Mids and GW. GW is good for fail gold. In my play through I put turns into it in several cities but did finish it somewhere, so basically creating my on fail gold opportunity. Got several 100 gold from that. Mids is one of the more powerful wonders in the game, and if I have stone online early, it is something I tend to go for. Rep early is very strong. However, it is a very expensive early wonder.

But actually, "building" wonders is often quite bad. There's only really a few wonders that the human may or may not want to build themselves in the game, and even then it is situational. What is the cost/benefit to the investment. As I believe Gumbo mention, this game is very much about "playing the map". What cards are you dealt in terms of land, resources, and especially food. Fail gold itself, is just a nice tool to get chunks of gold later by putting a little investment into a certain wonder with resource or IND bonus, and even then its whether you have the time to do so considering your priorities at the moment.

And it should be noted that wonders in general go much faster the higher the level, which makes success in actually completing them uncertain, but on the other hand makes the fail gold aspect easier.

Wonders worth building for human:

Mids (if stone or IND and plenty of forests to chop)
Great Lighthouse ( map dependent but one of THE most powerful wonders in the game if you can settle a lot of coastal cities...not so much a Pangaea map wonder)
Great Library - marble
Hanging Gardens (stone - this is a wonder that although it provides the extra health in all cities, its main benefit is only to the one who actually builds it - the +1pop in all cities)

Mauso - MoM ( marble - can be tough to get as AIs tend to go for Calendar, but this wonder is nice for the longer Golden Age. It's a wonder you want to plan for - no just the build but having a great person to kick off a Golden age. you wan a city with pre-chop forest so you can build it very fast)

Taj Mahal (marble - another wonder that only benefits the one who builds it)

Ofc, some of these can always be captured and you don't have to build yourself, but these are ones that if you have the opportunity you might try to build yourself. All other wonders are meh but fine for putting extra hammers in for fail gold.

caveat - Oracle (marble but pretty cheap so can be build with chops) kinda of a trap noob wonder, but still can setup some nice strategies. Problem is that it can be rather hard to on the highest levels so often just ignored - plus the early tech path can be a distraction. On Prince you can get it easily.

But really all the wonder talk does not do you much good for now. Game can be won without wonder focus and they can be a distraction. It's not a critical concept to learning the "basics". As you get more experience you will get a feel for when and why to build certain wonders.

It's like a forum member some years ago joked - something to the effect - "well, how about the 10 axemen wonder..."



Yeah, I'd recommend throwing out notions like immersion or role-playing for the moment. The idea here is to learn the game. Ofc, you can do that later and there are plenty of fun mods to play as well with that in mind.

Warriors are actually great units, because they are so cheap. It is why you build a few early for spawnbusting and then MP later. I've even traded away metals temporarily just so I can build more of them - like I want to grow my cap large if running Hereditary Rule, or in many cases I can just ignore the Hunting tech for a long time (unless I started with it)

So anyway, do what you wish with the current game, but my advice is to replay these starts. Practicing the same say 100 turns again and doing things a bit differently and better is very good experience. Read though the advice you were given by folks again too. Or even just start a new game of focus what you learn on that.

 

[Gumbolt]

Better to capture cities now. Hannibal cities at size 3-4 are too good to ignore. Expanding now is wrong choice given you have the military advantage.

Ignore his roaming units. Form a large stack for closest cities and let his units roam the jungle. I baited a couple with catapults and other units on forest.

225ad and Hannibal is dead. I played from your last save. I pretty much used only the units you already had. I don't think he has copper or iron so can only build archers. I would build more pults and phants and focus on Sumerians once carthage is dead.

You need to work on your unit promotions too.

Yes deleting the warriors to waste 100 hammers to replace them with archers was poor play.

Completed this prince game 450ad. Took a few turns to reach Hammy's capital. Probably should of built 5-6 settlers to win by domination a turn or so earlier. Would of won this quicker if I had played this map aggressive from start.

 

[SittinDown]

just think of the warriors as civilian militia.

 

[diegoami]

What's wrong with my promotions ?. Anyway, I played on until 520 AD.
Saved games here.
The war with Carthago goes one. But it is only in 200 AD, after several skirmishes in the Carthaginean forests, that the Khmer troops manage to lay siege to Utica. With 0% research, we have been accumulating money.

Spoiler 200 AD :

By 225 AD, Utica falls. We switch to full research to get to Feudalism asap.

Spoiler 225 AD :

Units are still being produced, but we are also building settlers to claim the lands north of our core territory, and missionaries, to convert the new towns.

Spoiler 250 AD :

In 350 AD, Khmer troops are preparing for an assault to the last surviving Carthaginean towns Hippo. The republic boasts two more towns at the north, Raa and Nag, that can stay unprotected thanks too the great wall.

Spoiler 350 AD :

It is only in 520 AD that Hippo falls. We had to wait for catapults. As a bonus, we get four workers, and also we do not have to worry about unhappiness in previously Carthaginean towns, longing for their old homeland.

Spoiler 520 AD :

We are looking to north for expansion, as we see marble and horse there. Otherwise we have the Romans at the West, the Persians and the Sumerians at the south and the Malinese at the East.
No reason for another immediate war, we plan to make sure the new land is profitable, building terrain improvements, possibly courthouses, monasteries, and in time forbidden palace and maybe a wonder?

Spoiler 520 AD R :

As civil service and feudalism are researched, bureaucracy and servitude are available.
We seem to have the technological advance, we could use this to beeline to macemen, knights and crossbowmen and take on new enemies with the technological advantage.

Spoiler 520 AD T :

 

[Swordnboard]

Some comments and suggestions:

You are working way too many unimproved tiles. This can be fixed multiple ways: perhaps the most straightforward is a focused use of your workers. You've built a good bit too many roads, more tile improvements would be better, which you can focus on from this point since you have lots of workers from Hannibal. A second method would be to whip the excess population into a larger army (elephants & catapults) and go conquer Rome, Julius looks overextended and light on defense. A third would be to revolt to caste system + bureaucracy, and replace the extra pop with scientist specialists, which coupled with representation will jumpstart your economy.

Definitely at this point need to be thinking about a victory condition. The fastest and easiest would be domination, just roll over/capitulate as many AI as necessary until you get there. If you want to pursue a more difficult victory condition (like space or diplomatic), you will also need to make some deliberate choices now. If you want to dominate, I definitely wouldn't wait for medieval units to keep conquering, elephants are plenty strong and very cheap.

 

[Gumbolt]

Agree with sword. Your worker actions have not been great. Your capital should of been the focus of your workers early on. The whole point of the nearby cities is for them to help run cottages which later on the capital can take over. It should of been focusing on growth and cottages.

By 450ad I was running 10 cottages in my capital that was size 14.
You - Size 7 and 2 cottages being worked? With 4 cottages it could work.

I don't get why it took you 12 more turns to take down the 2 cities. Whip 3-5 more units. Attack the Ai cities suiciding the catapults. Leave the roaming Ai units to roam. They all die when the final city falls anyway. You had 14-16 or so units here.

Unit promo wise. I normally do CR1/2/3. Or combat 1/2/3. Sometimes shock on axes if the Ai had melee units defending. I rarely use the flank promo. Combat 1/2 is much better for mounted units.

If your working unimproved tiles this is normally a sign you are not whipping enough. Slow building units won't win you wars.

So better use of workers/start whipping more/focus city builds/game strategy and have a more killer instinct when at war.

If you want to play the game for fun fair enough. If you want to player higher levels then you need to start taking on advice.

 

[lymond]

Well, DA, as folks mentioned, there's a bit left for improvement here. I'd mention first that you could have gone 100% on Feud earlier..do so immediately when the math works out. And yes, workers need more attention. You have a worker near cow/iron city just building a road for no reason when your core cities are in need of much attention.

You've done some things okay. On a positive note, part of this is just going through the process of playing the game will taking in the advice - and it is a lot of advice to absorb. You've now played apprx. 130 turns.

My recommendation is to start this game over, and reapply the thing you have learned and try to do them a bit better. Simply for the practice in a already familiar situation. Maybe go back and reread some of the discussion to absorb more of the ideas and concepts. Focus more on those worker actions and better preparing your core cities. I might focus again on establishing the same pattern of cities, but wait on war until you get up 6 cities with cow/iron and sheep, while teching up to Balista/pults.

 

[diegoami]

Oook - I guess I will start over, but if I to have to play this map again I guess I would need to increase the difficulty level to Monarch. I agree that it is probably not a good idea to keep playing this game, as I would be slacking because it seems pretty much won.
I took the 4000 save, gave archery to all civs and barbarians and an archer to all civs, saved it as a scenario and started again as Monarch. That's how you should turn a Prince save into a Monarchy save, as I read in the Noble club.

 

[Gumbolt]

AI will expand a bit faster on Monarch. Your tech cost will be higher too. Barbs also arrive sooner. You should be fine with creative.

Try and keep your game focused. Either attack from start or expand peacefully. Same for wonders.

 

[lymond]

Excellent. Sounds like you set the game up right, although I don't think you need to add archery for the AIs.

Yeah, with Monarch you will need to concentrate a bit more on those early decisions. My recommendation would be to expand like you did previously, although now to 6 cities and work toward HBR/Contruction for Balistapults. You might go Alpha first after Maths and maybe Currency too.

Yeah...might play as Custom Scenario so you can turn off huts/events.

 

[diegoami]

Next time I guess, I left them on.
I played until 975 BC. I have been peaceful and founded 5 towns, not sure when I will found the 6th near stone, as technologically I am a little behind.

Spoiler 975 BC :

 

[Gumbolt]

You can trade for alphabet rom Carthage.

I don't like running 1 scientist in the capital. I appreciate the happiness cap but I prefer growth..

You should know where the silver is for happiness. Calendar mixed with axe rush? You would need to whip/chop units. Don't worry about mining forest hills. Chop the forest and whip the cities from size 4 to size 2 with less than 5 hammers into the axe builds. You need to quickly build up 10-12 axes in 5-10 turns. You don't need a barrack in all 3 cities. Use whip OF to complete these so you can whip axes at 2 pop.

You will want 1-2 spears for your stack. Don't bother with archers.

 

[diegoami]

This time I decided to go peaceful and just take on barbarian towns. But the Romans decide to settle a town between one barbarian town I conquered and my main. It isn't as bad as it looks, though.
I managed to keep my economy afloat and expand, solidly whipping. Having access to stone and marble, I can build wonders and possibly fail. The advantage of knowing the map is very big, obviously, also on monarch
War is obviously coming, this time I would like to take on the Romans, but I am afraid of their Pretorians.
Although my score is higher, Rome looks more powerful.
I am half thinking of building the Apostolic palace and make them give me those towns ( when talking to Cesar I can ask him to "liberate" him)
Save files here in this directory.
I played until 125 AD

Spoiler 125 AD :